....... shows how much you know about me...lol.. ive BEEN THERE, ive been a christian, ive read the bible quite extensively which is why im so pissed off with the whole concept. as soon as i started digging, questioning, thinking logically and not through some emotional need, it quickly becomes a nonsense.

 

jesus supporters PAINTED HIM? :rofl: ive NEVER, EVER, seen any painting by contemporary artists that have created an image if him, or anyone of that era!

 

again you are blindly accepting the bible as 'the truth', a factual account of jesus... but it simply ISNT. truth can be understood by everybody, truth is fixed, unwavering, unambiguous .... 1 + 1 = 2, THAT is truth, a fact that can be understood by everyone throughout history. the bible is far from the truth, and thats one sad fact.

 

i started this thread so you believers could clarify any religious message, so far no one has come remotely close.... now many think 'why should i bother', but in the end its YOUR responsibility to enlighten those of us who want to see life as you do... after all, if we end up in hell because the message wasnt given to us, its not us who will have to answer to the lord god almighty...

First of all, there is proof that a man named Jesus lived and was crucified in Nazareth. There is no physical proof that he may have been Christ but he DID exist.

 

Second of all, the only contemporary proof you can find of events that occurred during that time are only fossils, everything got interpretted as history progressed. Everything. The Bible was translated sincerely and only for the benefit of mankind not for its downfall.

 

Then you go on about how inaccurate the times are in the Bible, meanwhile the Bible was not written and compiled consecutively from generation to generation so obviously its times won't add up.

 

You say there is no rational proof for Christianity and its basis, yet your argument has absolutely no basis to it, you're basing your theories on "proof" and theories that were developed by people who you can't even prove as reliable.

 

Science, so-called rationality, revolves around the atom, something that nobody's physically seen, discovered or proven. Whose to say God's not an atom or Jesus's life is not an atom, so your going to base your arguement on science and theory yet that all points back to something that was just logically developed by humans during the ages. Everything in the world today is based on science and theory, all of which were "rationally" developed by "credible" human beings. Thought, word, time, language, everything was logically developed by mankind with no physical proof to it, AT ALL. The world is based on logic and rationality, not physical contemporary proof.

 

The days in the bible could've been weeks long, weeks could be considered as 8 days if they wanted to be, days and hours and atoms are all based on human theory with no proof to it. So maybe see Christianity and Jesus as an atom, or a day or a second and then maybe you'll see the comparison you make of how faulted Christianity is, is completely flawed. The word and concept of "proof" itself was made up, why believe in that or the atom and not the Bible?

 

again you are blindly accepting the bible as 'the truth', a factual account of jesus... but it simply ISNT. truth can be understood by everybody, truth is fixed, unwavering, unambiguous .... 1 + 1 = 2, THAT is truth, a fact that can be understood by everyone throughout history.

LMFAO how is that the truth? The number one, the word fact and mathematics is all based on theory and creativity whose to say its the truth? Christianity has been understood and accepted by the majority so in your formula to what is true - Christianity is the truth! You try to show how your so extremely right and how those who argue against you's opinions are completely flawed whilst your completely oblivious to how flawed and irrational yours is.

Edited October 8, 200915 yr by Mwa Kath Mwa

But Kath, that is completely not the point. ^

 

Religion is nothing but a man-made invention, based on the idea of the Egyptian/Greek/Eastern/etc. Gods. This planet is so precise, with the way it works, moves, reacts. This is the force of nature, not a higher being. We humans really did, just get lucky.

Kath, I'm sorry, but if this "Jesus" existed, why is there no Gospel whatsoever in HIS name... Why hasn't HE handed down HIS OWN word, HIS OWN Gospel... Jesus only speaks in the Bible THROUGH OTHERS, kind of an important point that is, it proves it's all second-hand accounts and hearsay.... I know a man called Julius Ceaser existed because there are writings/works in his own words and hand... Same for Marcus Aurelius, Cicero, Henry VIII, Shakespeare, Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Descartes, Leonardo Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, Galileo, etc, etc...

 

Your arguments are laughable, and just so, so typical of a "true believer" who has no critical faculties at all regarding their own religon, and to think I almost became one of you, thank fukk I saw the light and rejected Catholicism TOTALLY when I was 13 years old, and purposefully got myself expelled from a Catholic school... In the words of the Senser song "No Comply" - "They taught me so well to be an idiot/I almost became everything that they said..." That's a song about Racism and racist propaganda, but sh"t, they may as well be talking about religion.... Karl Marx once said, "Religion is the Opiate of the masses", ie, it's like a dangerously addictive DRUG which clouds the mind and rational thought....

 

 

First of all, there is proof that a man named Jesus lived and was crucified in Nazareth. There is no physical proof that he may have been Christ but he DID exist.

 

Second of all, the only contemporary proof you can find of events that occurred during that time are only fossils, everything got interpretted as history progressed. Everything. The Bible was translated sincerely and only for the benefit of mankind not for its downfall.

 

Then you go on about how inaccurate the times are in the Bible, meanwhile the Bible was not written and compiled consecutively from generation to generation so obviously its times won't add up.

 

You say there is no rational proof for Christianity and its basis, yet your argument has absolutely no basis to it, you're basing your theories on "proof" and theories that were developed by people who you can't even prove as reliable.

 

Science, so-called rationality, revolves around the atom, something that nobody's physically seen, discovered or proven. Whose to say God's not an atom or Jesus's life is not an atom, so your going to base your arguement on science and theory yet that all points back to something that was just logically developed by humans during the ages. Everything in the world today is based on science and theory, all of which were "rationally" developed by "credible" human beings. Thought, word, time, language, everything was logically developed by mankind with no physical proof to it, AT ALL. The world is based on logic and rationality, not physical contemporary proof.

 

The days in the bible could've been weeks long, weeks could be considered as 8 days if they wanted to be, days and hours and atoms are all based on human theory with no proof to it. So maybe see Christianity and Jesus as an atom, or a day or a second and then maybe you'll see the comparison you make of how faulted Christianity is, is completely flawed. The word and concept of "proof" itself was made up, why believe in that or the atom and not the Bible?

LMFAO how is that the truth? The number one, the word fact and mathematics is all based on theory and creativity whose to say its the truth? Christianity has been understood and accepted by the majority so in your formula to what is true - Christianity is the truth! You try to show how your so extremely right and how those who argue against you's opinions are completely flawed whilst your completely oblivious to how flawed and irrational yours is.

 

kath, kath, kath... there are so many faults with this post im overwhelmed, especially as my times short.

 

how can you say definitively that "he did exist" if there is not 1 jot of evidence for him? where IS this evidence you say there is?...

 

FOSSILS?.... :rofl: they take tens of thousands of years to form! 'the only contemporary proof'?... erm even your bible is from that time, is the bible a fossil? :lol: there are writings, buildings, coins, bones, plenty of physical evidence that we can still touch, hold, see...

 

but the bible SHOULD add up...!!!! like ive said, its only a collection of writings out of thousands over a couple of thousand years that were grouped together to try to prove a point...it fails. there are plenty of contemporary roman writings from the time, they dont contradict eachother, they support eachother!

 

eh?.... 'my' theories are nothing but plain common sense, its not up to me to 'prove' something DOESNT exist, its up to you to prove this thing DOES. im saying theres NO evidence other then nebulous scribblings that have been altered in translation as a feeble excuse to give meaning to life. your beliefs / hopes are based on an emotional need, not hard facts.

 

science and rationality DOESNT revolve around the atom, science if the art of discovery, testing and proving the physical world by rational thought. the existance of atoms arnt a theory, its a proven fact . id LIKE science to prove that god and jesus exists, but as yet it doesnt, and tbh is unlikely too as theres no 'fingerprint'. yep, the world IS based on logic and rationality... AND PHYSICAL PROOF otherwise your existance is merely a theory! that computer you are using is physical proof that it exists! :lol: and there is NO rational logic behind religion... its illogical (captain...lol).

 

time is an abstract concept... but mathematics is a proven fixed system of measurement. atoms have been proven to exist, jesus hasnt so you cannot compare the two.

 

christianity has NOT been accepted by the majority....the vast majority of people throughout history have not been christian. its accepted because its what we have been indoctrinated with... historically you were FORCED to believe it at the risk of death if you didnt. christianity has become a tradition, its part of our identity like language or names have, but that doesnt mean its a real phenomina.

But Kath, that is completely not the point. ^

 

Religion is nothing but a man-made invention, based on the idea of the Egyptian/Greek/Eastern/etc. Gods. This planet is so precise, with the way it works, moves, reacts. This is the force of nature, not a higher being. We humans really did, just get lucky.

I'm not referring to religion as a whole, I'm referring to the concept of God and Christianity. You've missed the point completely, not me, LOL.

 

What's the most laughable is how you, Mushy, Grim, Grebo etc all put reference to science, theory and evidence - all of which are THE most unreliable of aspects and then you have the nerve to point Christianity out as completely unreliable. That's crossing the line, am I disrespecting and bashing your beliefs, no... Yet I, a 16 year old has to argue against you bunch who just belittled everything I believe in. My argument is not flawed, all you people are doing is ignoring the main points in it, extracting what you can out of it to make it look flawed for the benefit of your ego because you can't accept how wrong you are. I doubt any of you will have the guts to bash Jesus and Christianity so much in the middle of a church, so now you have to do it over the internet? FFS, grow some balls. You people are supposed to be the elders of this forum, and after all the complete idiocy I've read in this thread, I have anything but respect for any of you.

 

Humans were just lucky? Do you know how pathetic and unsubstantiated that sounds! :lol: So the universe which developed from a "big bang" originating from one small atom that nobody has seen is what created humankind and nature? LMFAO there is no possible way that an atom would be able to exert so much force without the influence of a higher power! Mother Nature didn't form the Earth, Mother Nature was born after the Earth was formed!

kath, kath, kath... there are so many faults with this post im overwhelmed, especially as my times short.

 

how can you say definitively that "he did exist" if there is not 1 jot of evidence for him? where IS this evidence you say there is?...

 

FOSSILS?.... :rofl: they take tens of thousands of years to form! 'the only contemporary proof'?... erm even your bible is from that time, is the bible a fossil? :lol: there are writings, buildings, coins, bones, plenty of physical evidence that we can still touch, hold, see...

 

but the bible SHOULD add up...!!!! like ive said, its only a collection of writings out of thousands over a couple of thousand years that were grouped together to try to prove a point...it fails. there are plenty of contemporary roman writings from the time, they dont contradict eachother, they support eachother!

 

eh?.... 'my' theories are nothing but plain common sense, its not up to me to 'prove' something DOESNT exist, its up to you to prove this thing DOES. im saying theres NO evidence other then nebulous scribblings that have been altered in translation as a feeble excuse to give meaning to life. your beliefs / hopes are based on an emotional need, not hard facts.

 

science and rationality DOESNT revolve around the atom, science if the art of discovery, testing and proving the physical world by rational thought. the existance of atoms arnt a theory, its a proven fact . id LIKE science to prove that god and jesus exists, but as yet it doesnt, and tbh is unlikely too as theres no 'fingerprint'. yep, the world IS based on logic and rationality... AND PHYSICAL PROOF otherwise your existance is merely a theory! that computer you are using is physical proof that it exists! :lol: and there is NO rational logic behind religion... its illogical (captain...lol).

 

time is an abstract concept... but mathematics is a proven fixed system of measurement. atoms have been proven to exist, jesus hasnt so you cannot compare the two.

 

christianity has NOT been accepted by the majority....the vast majority of people throughout history have not been christian. its accepted because its what we have been indoctrinated with... historically you were FORCED to believe it at the risk of death if you didnt. christianity has become a tradition, its part of our identity like language or names have, but that doesnt mean its a real phenomina.

Not 1 jot of evidence? Have you been living under a rock? Its been scientificaly proven that he lived, hundreds of people of his time are evidence to this - they wrote about it! There's records of his crucification, his identity, you just haven't done your research properly. My wordd. :rolleyes:

 

The Bible DOES add up. What proof do you have to be certain it doesn't? It doesn't fail, BILLIONS of people have experienced the power of the Holy Spirit. Where are these contradictions your claiming the Bible to have? :/ The Roman Writings LMFAO, they are miles more unreliable than the Bible, miles less valuable and miles less popular even in this day and age. The Roman Writings were translated and altered just as much as the Bible was! WAKE UP CALL.

 

Science IS based on the atom, has your age and memory let you down into thinking its not? Any scientist can tell you it is, any scientist can tell you that the existance HAS NOT been proven. Both your and my beliefs don't have ANY proof to them. Mathematics is man-made-up, Language is man-made-up, IT IS, WHICH MAKES IT COMPLETELY UNRELIABLE. Before blowing your trumpet, read yours and my points before making a complete idiot of yourself with your unsubstantiated hyperboles and your massively blind hypocricy. You ARE a hypocrite, forget Christians, YOU are. Rant as much as you want about how unproven, unreliable and flawed Christianity is but your beliefs and your opinions are even more flawed than you make Christianity out to be.

Your basing EVERYTHING on aspects that have no proof to them, they arent fact, they've just been accepted as fact by unreliable human opinion. Science is made up from something that has no proof to it, mathematics is man-made-up etc etc. Forget the Bible, your ENTIRE OPINION is based on unproven and unreliable man-made-up ideas and theories which till this day have nothing to back them up!

I'm not referring to religion as a whole, I'm referring to the concept of God and Christianity. You've missed the point completely, not me, LOL.

 

What's the most laughable is how you, Mushy, Grim, Grebo etc all put reference to science, theory and evidence - all of which are THE most unreliable of aspects and then you have the nerve to point Christianity out as completely unreliable. That's crossing the line, am I disrespecting and bashing your beliefs, no... Yet I, a 16 year old has to argue against you bunch who just belittled everything I believe in. My argument is not flawed, all you people are doing is ignoring the main points in it, extracting what you can out of it to make it look flawed for the benefit of your ego because you can't accept how wrong you are. I doubt any of you will have the guts to bash Jesus and Christianity so much in the middle of a church, so now you have to do it over the internet? FFS, grow some balls. You people are supposed to be the elders of this forum, and after all the complete idiocy I've read in this thread, I have anything but respect for any of you.

 

Humans were just lucky? Do you know how pathetic and unsubstantiated that sounds! :lol: So the universe which developed from a "big bang" originating from one small atom that nobody has seen is what created humankind and nature? LMFAO there is no possible way that an atom would be able to exert so much force without the influence of a higher power! Mother Nature didn't form the Earth, Mother Nature was born after the Earth was formed!

 

oh dear..... "science is the most unreliable of aspects"?... kath...what drives your computer? faith? it was created by science, by scientific method, it exists and can be proven to exist. science is the art of discovering truths about life, by measuring, quantifying, examining, checking and double checking.. if christianity or any other religion was as proven, everyone would believe it! the idea of this thread was to investigate religion, to have it explained in a logical way that can be understood... it isnt about 'bashing your beliefs', its about examining ANY religious belief system to get to the truth. the trouble is, any belief system appears to exist only if you dont examine it! why? because it falls apart under scrutiny, PITY, I WANT TO HAVE ABIT OF IT! but i cannot accept blind faith, faith in something that cannot be proven.

 

no one is ignoring your main points, or extracting anything, we are answering your points which dont actually stand up to scrutiny. IF IT WAS THE TRUTH, IT WOULD DO.

 

the big bang theory is no more ridiculous then god creating the world and life on earth... where did god come from?...oh yeah, hes always been there! WELL SO HAS THE UNIVERSE! :lol:

Not 1 jot of evidence? Have you been living under a rock? Its been scientificaly proven that he lived, hundreds of people of his time are evidence to this - they wrote about it! There's records of his crucification, his identity, you just haven't done your research properly. My wordd. :rolleyes:

 

this simply is not true! if it was true then there would never have been any debate as to his origins. please point me to this scientific evidence please. there are NO, repeate NO records of his existance outside the bible where 4 people wrote about it 60 + years AFTER his death <_<

 

The Bible DOES add up. What proof do you have to be certain it doesn't? It doesn't fail, BILLIONS of people have experienced the power of the Holy Spirit. Where are these contradictions your claiming the Bible to have? :/ The Roman Writings LMFAO, they are miles more unreliable than the Bible, miles less valuable and miles less popular even in this day and age. The Roman Writings were translated and altered just as much as the Bible was! WAKE UP CALL.

oh the holy spirit...an emotion that humans have... yeah ive been there, seen that, done it, its pure emotion, it doesnt exist as an entity, if it did...EVERYONE would have accepted it.

 

the main message of the bible, jesus died for our sins, believe in him and youll go the heaven.... ok, so why is this fundamental message tucked away in only 1 gospel? IT SHOULD BE HEADLINE NEWS with not only john refering to it, but EVERYONE. tbh we need a new thread to examine the bible. the roman writings have been checked, varified, and are still in latin, they , unlike the bible, support eachother. they refer to known historic events, events that are well documented through writings, carvings on temples, coins that still exist...hell I HAVE SOME! the romans documented everything.....no mention of jc... i wonder why!

 

Science IS based on the atom, has your age and memory let you down into thinking its not? Any scientist can tell you it is, any scientist can tell you that the existance HAS NOT been proven.

 

now you are getting silly... science is not based on the atom, science is the method used to discover the natural physical world. and that simply is utter rubbish... the existance of atoms HAS been proven and EVERY scientist accepts it.

 

look.... you cant see the wind, but its existance can be proven by feel, touch, measurement and even prediction. radiation...you cant see that, but its known to exist because it can be detected, created, measured, quantified.

 

Both your and my beliefs don't have ANY proof to them. Mathematics is man-made-up, Language is man-made-up, IT IS, WHICH MAKES IT COMPLETELY UNRELIABLE.

now this is worrying, that a seemingly intelligent person is ignoring one of natures most fundamental laws in favour of unproven supersticion. oh dear... put it like this... if you have 1 apple, and i give you another apple, you have 2 apples! ffs! how can that be unreliable? :rofl: mathematics if a natural law, everything in creation exists by mathematic formula, or mathematic formula can be used to correctly predict an outcome... maths is fixed, its a law, 1 + 1 = 2 .. not 5, not 674, but 2...

 

Before blowing your trumpet, read yours and my points before making a complete idiot of yourself with your unsubstantiated hyperboles and your massively blind hypocricy. You ARE a hypocrite, forget Christians, YOU are.

 

now you are letting youself down, what hypocricy?... please point out where ive contradicted myself.... ive substantiated everything ive posted.. oh and please conduct youself in an adult manner, theres no need for name calling

 

Rant as much as you want about how unproven, unreliable and flawed Christianity is but your beliefs and your opinions are even more flawed than you make Christianity out to be.

Your basing EVERYTHING on aspects that have no proof to them, they arent fact, they've just been accepted as fact by unreliable human opinion. Science is made up from something that has no proof to it, mathematics is man-made-up etc etc. Forget the Bible, your ENTIRE OPINION is based on unproven and unreliable man-made-up ideas and theories which till this day have nothing to back them up!

 

.... soory, are we talking about religion here?.... how can my beliefs be flawed?... i believe that if anything exists it can be seen, measured, quantified, predicted and PROVEN. if you think thats stupid then fair enough! :lol:

 

i find that rich, and inaccurate, you have a pop at me for believing in something that cannot be proven?... but you are a christian? :rofl:.... but you are WRONG! my opinion is made up of known facts, through science and scientific method. yep, i believe in maths, i believe that the universe is subject to the laws of nature and that the art of science is to discover these laws to further out understanding of the universe and life itself. so my beliefs are based on sound, scientifically proven facts, not some emotion trip...

I'm not referring to religion as a whole, I'm referring to the concept of God and Christianity. You've missed the point completely, not me, LOL.

 

What's the most laughable is how you, Mushy, Grim, Grebo etc all put reference to science, theory and evidence - all of which are THE most unreliable of aspects and then you have the nerve to point Christianity out as completely unreliable. That's crossing the line, am I disrespecting and bashing your beliefs, no... Yet I, a 16 year old has to argue against you bunch who just belittled everything I believe in. My argument is not flawed, all you people are doing is ignoring the main points in it, extracting what you can out of it to make it look flawed for the benefit of your ego because you can't accept how wrong you are. I doubt any of you will have the guts to bash Jesus and Christianity so much in the middle of a church, so now you have to do it over the internet? FFS, grow some balls. You people are supposed to be the elders of this forum, and after all the complete idiocy I've read in this thread, I have anything but respect for any of you.

 

Humans were just lucky? Do you know how pathetic and unsubstantiated that sounds! :lol: So the universe which developed from a "big bang" originating from one small atom that nobody has seen is what created humankind and nature? LMFAO there is no possible way that an atom would be able to exert so much force without the influence of a higher power! Mother Nature didn't form the Earth, Mother Nature was born after the Earth was formed!

 

Oh my life.

 

I would state my views on religion at any time or place. And don't think that this is confined to Christianity. I don't like any dogmatic belief system that is designed to constrict the naturally creative thought processes of human beings.

Why is it idiocy that we don't accept Christian dogma? What gives you the right to state I am wrong. I have pointed out what I believe to be true. You are free to believe what you like.

 

No-one has seen God but you're more than ready to accept the existance of an omnipotent being without a single piece of proof and then have the temerity to bash people who say atoms exist (a fact based on PROOF!) even though they can't be seen. Do you not see the irony in this?

 

Next you'll be saying that God did make the world approximately 6000 years ago, dinosaur fossils were put in the ground by God to test our belief of God and Charles Darwin was a complete numpty who made up a theory on the spot without a single shred of evidence based on observation and deduction at all.

 

Edited October 9, 200915 yr by grebo69

Oh my life.

 

I would state my views on religion at any time or place. And don't think that this is confined to Christianity. I don't like any dogmatic belief system that is designed to constrict the naturally creative thought processes of human beings.

Why is it idiocy that we don't accept Christian dogma? What gives you the right to state I am wrong. I have pointed out what I believe to be true. You are free to believe what you like.

 

No-one has seen God but you're more than ready to accept the existance of an omnipotent being without a single piece of proof and then have the temerity to bash people who say atoms exist (a fact based on PROOF!) even though they can't be seen. Do you not see the irony in this?

 

Next you'll be saying that God did make the world approximately 6000 years ago, dinosaur fossils were put in the ground by God to test our belief of God and Charles Darwin was a complete numpty who made up a theory on the spot without a single shred of evidence based on observation and deduction at all.

 

and this thread isnt confined to christianity, so if other religious groups want to explain the basis for their belief then they are free to do so!

 

well said grebo :)

I would add my point of view, but when we have a lunatic in our midst insisting that, yes, the Bible DOES add up (surely only if you can't count), and that no, we've never 'seen' an atom....ahem.... well.. what's the point?

 

Surely any sane minded person knows that religion is a crutch for socially inept, insular people who are simply unable to engage themselves with real life - hence they need a scripture to explain to them how they should be living their lives - the whole 'imaginary friend' cycle. Whilst in all honesty I pity people who need this and feel unable to live their lives with other living, breathing human beings, and would never try to deny them it, I will absolutely not let them try to mould real life around what is, in all fairness, a pretty turgid set of old tales.

Kath, you really need to go out and do some reading and research... If you did, then you'd actually know that the "theories" in the Bible or Koran simply hold no water whatsoever... Why do you think that the powers that be that held sway in Rome forbade the study of sciences for centuries... Why do you suppose the likes of Galileo were considered "heretics".. ? why do you suppose the rulers, sheikhs, mullahs, etc who lord it over the world's one billion Muslims are resistant to scientific study and criticism....

 

It's really rather simple - THEY WOULD LOSE ALL THEIR POWER AND INFLUENCE OVER PEOPLE, just like the Kings and Queens did when Feudalism and the concept of "Divine Rule" was ditched in favour of Enlightenment sometime around the 18th Century, this, funnily enough, coincided with the Industrial Revolution :rolleyes: ..... Religion exploits, it controls, it oppresses and it always has done, it was only when religous rule and the rule of Kings was swept aside and totally de-emphasised, that we actually began to see the formation of the system of legitimacy for authority (you know, as in ELECTIONS and stuff like that... :rolleyes: ) as we know it today.... It aint perfect, but Christ, it sure as HELL is better than Religious Authority and Feudalism.....

 

Religion is the single greatest evil in the history of mankind... Never mind Hitler or Stalin, in terms of human history, they are but drops in the bucket compared to the evils that Religion has wreaked over the past 2000 years.... Do you actually know what the "Age Of Enlightenment" even IS....???? Frankly Kath, you're either a total zealot who doesn't even acknowledge that the age of Enlightenment and Reason took place, or just playing Devil's Advocate.... I mean, if you actually believe even half of what you're saying, oh dear......

 

You seriously need to read up on this stuff - I suggest you read Beccaria, Emmanuel Kant, Thomas Hobbes as starting points, and then go onto Neo-Classicist, Positivist/Neo-Positivist and Neo-Marxist/Weberian theories.... You may actually learn a few things....... -_-

I would add my point of view, but when we have a lunatic in our midst insisting that, yes, the Bible DOES add up (surely only if you can't count), and that no, we've never 'seen' an atom....ahem.... well.. what's the point?

 

Surely any sane minded person knows that religion is a crutch for socially inept, insular people who are simply unable to engage themselves with real life - hence they need a scripture to explain to them how they should be living their lives - the whole 'imaginary friend' cycle. Whilst in all honesty I pity people who need this and feel unable to live their lives with other living, breathing human beings, and would never try to deny them it, I will absolutely not let them try to mould real life around what is, in all fairness, a pretty turgid set of old tales.

 

Spot on Russ... The Bible isn't even all that original even..... You could pretty much see a LOT of Greek and Roman "mythology" forming the basis for the tales told in the Bible.... So, I ask again the question that no one seems to be able to answer... What makes the Bible of The Koran more "right" or correct than the worship of Zues, Ra, Venus or Odin....? :rolleyes: Seems to me, that it's all pretty much the same thing....

 

tbh im disappointed that those who claim a religious faith on here dont actually engage in discussion... but then again they are warned away from people/discussions that might rock their faith. i think to believers they are scared to have their beliefs tested as they dont stand the test of rational thought, it must be a hideous proposition for them to have such a huge part of their lifes taken away and for them to have to stand on their own two feet.

 

 

tbh im disappointed that those who claim a religious faith on here dont actually engage in discussion... but then again they are warned away from people/discussions that might rock their faith. i think to believers they are scared to have their beliefs tested as they dont stand the test of rational thought, it must be a hideous proposition for them to have such a huge part of their lifes taken away and for them to have to stand on their own two feet.

 

Exactly, pretty much none of these religious types even look into alternative and scientific explanations... How does religion explain the dinosaurs which roamed the Earth for millions of years before mankind...? It doesn't.... Are we just to suppose that God, the all-knowing, "omnipotent creator" somehow just forgot to mention the giant and flying lizards.......? :rolleyes:

 

NO, the reason why Dinosaurs aint mentioned in the Bible or Koran is simple = MAN HIMSELF DID NOT KNOW OF THE EXISTENCE OF FOSSILS...... Ergo, ALL religious faiths are man-made and are INVENTED FORMS OF THOUGHT AND SOCIAL CONTROL..... Fair enough, it served okay enough for the first part of our development, then we EVOLVED and a better system of Social Controlling came along during the Age of Enlightenment (which drew up the beginnings of Legitimate Authrority, as well as the Rights of Man, the Social Contract, the principle of the "Punishment fitting the crime", the modern Penal Code, with prisons replacing the Medieval public displays of punishment, torture or "gaols") with the likes of Classicism, and later Positivism, Psychological Positivism, then Neo-Classicism and other ideas....

 

Religion is simply irrelevant in the modern age, a throwback to a time when Man was ignorant of the world and the universe around him....

 

Exactly, pretty much none of these religious types even look into alternative and scientific explanations... How does religion explain the dinosaurs which roamed the Earth for millions of years before mankind...? It doesn't.... Are we just to suppose that God, the all-knowing, "omnipotent creator" somehow just forgot to mention the giant and flying lizards.......? :rolleyes:

 

NO, the reason why Dinosaurs aint mentioned in the Bible or Koran is simple = MAN HIMSELF DID NOT KNOW OF THE EXISTENCE OF FOSSILS...... Ergo, ALL religious faiths are man-made and are INVENTED FORMS OF THOUGHT AND SOCIAL CONTROL..... Fair enough, it served okay enough for the first part of our development, then we EVOLVED and a better system of Social Controlling came along during the Age of Enlightenment (which drew up the beginnings of Legitimate Authrority, as well as the Rights of Man, the Social Contract, the principle of the "Punishment fitting the crime", the modern Penal Code, with prisons replacing the Medieval public displays of punishment, torture or "gaols") with the likes of Classicism, and later Positivism, Psychological Positivism, then Neo-Classicism and other ideas....

 

Religion is simply irrelevant in the modern age, a throwback to a time when Man was ignorant of the world and the universe around him....

I was actually wondering what the Bible said about Dinosaurs the other day. If it says nothing, surely that says something about how valid the Bible is? We know Dinosaurs exist, there's proof, but we don't have any proof of God or Jesus as far as I know. :unsure:

 

Agreed with your last comment, I think we should be above this religion stuff now. Humans are evolving and becoming more intelligent over the years, we know so much more about the world, people, disease etc. than we did hundreds of years ago. It seems the only thing we blindly accept and don't question is religion, when it's something we should have left in our more ignorant past. (with the world being flat etc.)

I was actually wondering what the Bible said about Dinosaurs the other day. If it says nothing, surely that says something about how valid the Bible is? We know Dinosaurs exist, there's proof, but we don't have any proof of God or Jesus as far as I know. :unsure:

 

The late, great Bill Hicks on "Dinosaurs and Fundamentalist Christians".... :lol:

 

Funny as hell, and oh-so true....

 

I believe in God. That comes from the fact I don't see how the world could come into existence without some kind of supernatural force. I'm well aware of the scientific explanation, but what no-one has ever explained to me sufficiently is how the first atoms or matter or whatever first came into being. Also, I believe "miracles" have occurred to me atleast twice or three times in my life. Of course the Bible is a mess of contradictions, but that alone doesn't make the whole idea of a God wrong. I just don't see how the idea could have been so widespread and over so many thousands of years if there wasn't some truth to it. But I obviously recognise I'm not necessarily right - these are just my beliefs.

 

With all this said, I'm not a member of any organised religion. And I guess I wouldn't meet the official "rules" for any of them - I'm a bisexual who drinks and has had sex before marriage. I guess I might become a practising Christian one day, but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to start letting my life be ruled by what God might think about anything I do in my life. I basically find debating about religion pretty pointless tbh, with this thread being no exception - everyone just bickers for a few pages, and by the end no-one's beliefs are changed. I do detest religious people who insist their beliefs are truth and try to force their views on others - but Atheists who insist that THEY are definitely right and saying anyone who follows a religion is definitely wrong are just as bad.

I believe in God. That comes from the fact I don't see how the world could come into existence without some kind of supernatural force. I'm well aware of the scientific explanation, but what no-one has ever explained to me sufficiently is how the first atoms or matter or whatever first came into being. Also, I believe "miracles" have occurred to me atleast twice or three times in my life. Of course the Bible is a mess of contradictions, but that alone doesn't make the whole idea of a God wrong. I just don't see how the idea could have been so widespread and over so many thousands of years if there wasn't some truth to it. But I obviously recognise I'm not necessarily right - these are just my beliefs.

 

With all this said, I'm not a member of any organised religion. And I guess I wouldn't meet the official "rules" for any of them - I'm a bisexual who drinks and has had sex before marriage. I guess I might become a practising Christian one day, but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to start letting my life be ruled by what God might think about anything I do in my life. I basically find debating about religion pretty pointless tbh, with this thread being no exception - everyone just bickers for a few pages, and by the end no-one's beliefs are changed. I do detest religious people who insist their beliefs are truth and try to force their views on others - but Atheists who insist that THEY are definitely right and saying anyone who follows a religion is definitely wrong are just as bad.

 

let me make this clear...this thread is about examining religious beliefs, not a 'god' bashing excercise, the concept of god is not the topic (yet...lol..) its religion that is.

 

the athiests here are not 'insisting' we are right, the idea of this topic is to debate, examine, explore, and so far the believers have not been able to challenge us non believers reasoned points on why we dont believe. so its no a case of us insisting we are right, its a case that our evidence for not believing is stronger then the points raised by believers.

I believe in God. That comes from the fact I don't see how the world could come into existence without some kind of supernatural force. I'm well aware of the scientific explanation, but what no-one has ever explained to me sufficiently is how the first atoms or matter or whatever first came into being. Also, I believe "miracles" have occurred to me atleast twice or three times in my life. Of course the Bible is a mess of contradictions, but that alone doesn't make the whole idea of a God wrong. I just don't see how the idea could have been so widespread and over so many thousands of years if there wasn't some truth to it. But I obviously recognise I'm not necessarily right - these are just my beliefs.

 

With all this said, I'm not a member of any organised religion. And I guess I wouldn't meet the official "rules" for any of them - I'm a bisexual who drinks and has had sex before marriage. I guess I might become a practising Christian one day, but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to start letting my life be ruled by what God might think about anything I do in my life. I basically find debating about religion pretty pointless tbh, with this thread being no exception - everyone just bickers for a few pages, and by the end no-one's beliefs are changed. I do detest religious people who insist their beliefs are truth and try to force their views on others - but Atheists who insist that THEY are definitely right and saying anyone who follows a religion is definitely wrong are just as bad.

 

There's a big difference between God/Spirituality and religion though.... I think that if God did exist, he'd be pretty annoyed and angry about all these idiots in the world who claim to be doing things on his behalf... If someone went around killing, maiming or mutilating people and then claimed to be doing it for me because it's "Scott's will", I reckon I'd be sending bolts of lightening up their asses and would absolutely be keen on putting the record STRAIGHT myself.... So, I just wonder what IS God, he either doesn't exist, left us LONG ago to go off in the universe somewhere (in which case following his "will" is still pretty pointless), or actually enjoys the fact that we're all fighting over him.... Well, that latter option in particular rather worries me, Bill Hick's idea of a "Prankster God" is pretty fukked up if this IS God's true nature.....