Still Danny, seeing as you seem to be supporting Anjem Choudary's rights; would you support a someone rights to be anti-Islamic; and to march outside Mosques supporting the war in Iraq & Afghanistan?

 

Yes, I would, as long as it was non-violent. I think the BNP should be allowed to exist and hold public meetings even though I totally disagree with them. And I'm not filing any complaints about BA Baracus's racism either - even though I totally disagree with what he's saying, he has the right to say it, no matter how racist it is.

 

Just to clarify here, I don't actually agree with this crazy guy Choudary AT ALL. What I find totally disgusting is people saying a British-born Muslim should "go back home" and that they were "guests in our country". Even if the complaints themselves were only directed at extremists, the implication still is that even innocent, non-extremist British Muslims are less British than white people, which definitely is racism. I'm pretty sure someone even implied that the majority of British Muslims AGREE with the extremists, which despite what BA Baracus miight think is not the case.

 

So 2 mods, 3 admins and 4 global mods are wrong and you are right ? how patronising towards them

 

You can nit pick my posts and be as pedantic as you like trying to out me as a racist but it is futile and pointless as I am not one, I am anti racist, many of the most robust anti BNP posts in the Griffin On QT thread were from ME

 

I attended demos when I was younger protesting against apartheid, again the epitome of a racist

 

But if you want to carry on this tedious crusade to out me as a racist then whatever floats your boat

 

LMAO, sorry but I'm pretty sure you know that resorting to saying "well I haven't been banned" in the middle of a debate is a pretty pathetic and irrelevant argument.

 

And there's nothing pedantic or nit-picking about calling someone racist when they say, and I quote "No black/asian/muslim person can be truly British".

Yes, I would, as long as it was non-violent. I think the BNP should be allowed to exist and hold public meetings even though I totally disagree with them. And I'm not filing any complaints about BA Baracus's racism either - even though I totally disagree with what he's saying, he has the right to say it, no matter how racist it is.

 

Just to clarify here, I don't actually agree with this crazy guy Choudary AT ALL. What I find totally disgusting is people saying a British-born Muslim should "go back home" and that they were "guests in our country". Even if the complaints themselves were only directed at extremists, the implication still is that even innocent, non-extremist British Muslims are less British than white people, which definitely is racism. I'm pretty sure someone even implied that the majority of British Muslims AGREE with the extremists, which despite what BA Baracus miight think is not the case.

LMAO, sorry but I'm pretty sure you know that resorting to saying "well I haven't been banned" in the middle of a debate is a pretty pathetic and irrelevant argument.

 

And there's nothing pedantic or nit-picking about calling someone racist when they say, and I quote "No black/asian/muslim person can be truly British".

 

I am pretty sure that you are making it up, it is only a 3 page thread not a lot of reading back to do perhaps you could find this quote of mine that doesn't exist as I never said such a thing

 

The majority of muslims in this country are hard working and law abiding citizens and they most of all should be appalled by the behaviour of this group as ALL muslims will be tarred with the same brush by the media and people of low intelligence (millions of people) will not tell the difference between the wild eyed extremist and the hard working businessman that works all hours, they will assume ALL muslims are extremists when it is probably at best 10-20%

Edited January 4, 201015 yr by B.A Baracus

The majority of muslims in this country are hard working and law abiding citizens

 

In that case, why do you consider them to be less British than white people?

In that case, why do you consider them to be less British than white people?

 

You clearly know little about my background, I descend from immigrant stock, in my case Eastern European, none of my parents or grandparents were born in this country even though I was, I consider myself a British CITIZEN and a British SUBJECT but were Russia or Poland playing England in the world cup I would sure as hell not be cheering on the England team so even I do not consider myself British other than as a citizen so I know how it feels

 

I was born here, I have lived here all my life bar some stints working abroad but am I "true" Brit ? no

 

 

You clearly know little about my background, I descend from immigrant stock, in my case Eastern European, none of my parents or grandparents were born in this country even though I was, I consider myself a British CITIZEN and a British SUBJECT but were Russia or Poland playing England in the world cup I would sure as hell not be cheering on the England team so even I do not consider myself British other than as a citizen so I know how it feels

 

I was born here, I have lived here all my life bar some stints working abroad but am I "true" Brit ? no

 

So then, do you think that if you ever disagree with anything the British government does, everyone else has the right to call you a "guest in our country" and that you should "f*** off home" if you don't like it?

The bottom line here ius, as this idiot Islam guy says, WE will not integrate - but YOU must. Nothing will dissuade fanatics, nothing will change someone's long-held religious beliefs (which is why the war in Afghanistan is particularly ridiculous), nothing will stop these people trying to cause mass tension in this country.

 

Islam, as a faith, IS NOT COMPATIBLE with a modern, forward-thinking country - a true Muslim CANNOT live alongside a British person in peace, harmony and understanding because, in the eyes of a Muslim, someone who follows Islam, non-Muslims are beneath them, they are lower in every aspect, there IS no equality for a non-Muslim in a Muslim's eyes.

 

We as a country need to decide - is the long-hard battle for equality for, in particular, women and gays, less imortant than upsetting a religious movement?

 

That is the very pure, clean, simple choice.

 

And I, for one, ABSOLUTELY do not think that it is.

 

Whilst I find all religion utterly appalling, whether it be Christianity, Catholicism, whatever.... and they all in their own little ways attempt to dehumanise and belittle people like myself, a gay man, you rarely find such pompous, self-important, puffed-up nonsense spewing from the mouths of their religious leaders as you seem to the Muslim spokespeople and leaders - because, as I said earlier, they simply WILL NOT accept any other way, unlike most other religions which, in 2010, are pretty accepting of each other's beliefs and aims, whether they agree with them or not (apart, of course from the Nazi in the Vatican, who made my Christmas by being given a good old slap, evil old bast*rd, she should've given him a shoeing when he was down).

 

So we have a situation where a group will absolutely not bring their teachings in line with modern times, and will not accept any other way but their own. And pray death on anyone who opposes them. Deadlock.

 

I'm for the outlawing of ALL religion, and hopefully there will be a day in the distant fuure where all religion is regarded as the laughable nonsense it really is..... but we are here, at the present moment, and we find ourselves in a HUGE dilemma - what's the answer? I don't know, whilst I support free speech, there HAS to be a ceiling on what is and is not acceptable.

 

And in any sane, moral, decent person's eyes, whether they be for or against our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, this march is an abysmal act of blatant aggravation designed to divide and create huge conflict.

 

Disgustingly characteristic is the complete silence from the Muslim Council of Great Britain, once again, don't you think?

 

 

In reply to Danny who seems to defend Choudary's right to free speech, maybe you should look at some of this guy's other statements over the recent past. Yes, this Country does allow free speech, unlike most muslim Countries where it is outlawed. How ironic that he should use this Country's laws to spout of his vitriol crap.

 

Rants by Anjem Choudary

 

Re the Pope - The Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London that the Pope should face execution.

 

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

 

On Homosexuality - Hate preacher Anjem Choudary launched a vitrolic attack on gays last week in which he said that they should be stoned to death.

 

The former lawyer added that this would include gay business secretary Lord Peter Mandelson, who, under Sharia law, would first be educated about the “evils” of homosexuality then executed if he confessed to a same-sex relationship.

 

On UK women - Last week, he called for all British women to be forced to wear burkhas, saying: Every woman, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, would have to wear a traditional burkha and cover everything apart from her face and hands in public.

 

On UK Law and the Jury system - In matters to do with the judicial system and the penal code, one male witness is sufficient to counter the testimony of two females.

 

On adultery - People who commit adultery would be stoned to death.

 

On alcohol - Anyone who becomes intoxicated by alcohol would be given 40 lashes in public.

 

On UK troops returning from Afghanistan - He claimed the soldiers were 'terrorists', comparing them to Nazi troops who 'cannot be excused for simply carrying out their duty'.

 

This is a guy who lives on state benefits, ie your taxes and mine fund his lifestyle.

Now I have always been against the war in Iraq & Afghanistan, however the protest should be against the Government if its allowed to take place, and not the place where the dead soldiers return. Therefore the protest should be at the Houses of Parliament.

Islam4UK? No thanks, they can f**k right off.

 

The idea of these ingrates parading empty coffins through Wootton Bassett is abhorrent; a complete disregard for the memory of our brave fallen soldiers and their grieving families. I don’t see how this is any different from those disgusting Westboro Baptist loons who picketed US military funerals.

 

If they don’t like it here, they can bloody well emigrate their arses back to the Muslim fourth world.

We as a country need to decide - is the long-hard battle for equality for, in particular, women and gays, less imortant than upsetting a religious movement?

 

I completely agree that Sharia law should not in any way be integrated into the British legal system (nor should the values of any other religion) - but that's simply never going to happen anyway so trying to scaremonger about it is pointless.

 

 

Now I have always been against the war in Iraq & Afghanistan, however the protest should be against the Government if its allowed to take place, and not the place where the dead soldiers return. Therefore the protest should be at the Houses of Parliament.

 

Don't get me wrong, the guy is scum. And, even though I'm as against the Afghanistan war as much as anyone, I do think holding a protest in this particular place is tasteless.

 

My main issue in this thread is with comments telling this BRITISH-born guy to "go home" or that he is a "guest in our country". That not only betrays a racist, ignorant attitude, but it's also indirectly insulting to the majority of Muslims in this country who hate Choudry more than anyone.

I completely agree that Sharia law should not in any way be integrated into the British legal system (nor should the values of any other religion) - but that's simply never going to happen anyway so trying to scaremonger about it is pointless.

Don't get me wrong, the guy is scum. And, even though I'm as against the Afghanistan war as much as anyone, I do think holding a protest in this particular place is tasteless.

 

My main issue in this thread is with comments telling this BRITISH-born guy to "go home" or that he is a "guest in our country". That not only betrays a racist, ignorant attitude, but it's also indirectly insulting to the majority of Muslims in this country who hate Choudry more than anyone.

 

Well if he is such a fan of sharia law, given it is never going to happen in this country wouldn't he be better off going to a country where he can live by his beloved sharia law ?

 

 

So then, do you think that if you ever disagree with anything the British government does, everyone else has the right to call you a "guest in our country" and that you should "f*** off home" if you don't like it?

 

I would have no objection to being told that if I was acting in a manner that spits in the face of every British national like he is doing

I would have no objection to being told that if I was acting in a manner that spits in the face of every British national like he is doing

 

LMAO, I'm sure you would.

Rants by Anjem Choudary

 

Re the Pope - The Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London that the Pope should face execution.

 

hmm... there is some sense there, then....

 

Rants by Anjem Choudary

On Homosexuality - Hate preacher Anjem Choudary launched a vitrolic attack on gays last week in which he said that they should be stoned to death.

 

that's blatantly inciting violence - and breaking several laws - I sincerely hope he is reprimanded by the relevant authorities for this. I somehow doubt it, though.

 

On alcohol - Anyone who becomes intoxicated by alcohol would be given 40 lashes in public.

 

the poor guy's quite obviously completely mistaken that old British hobby of "going on the lash" bless him. Perhaps it's he needs some educating - on the ways and traditions of the country he's decided to sponge off, the one he was born in yet finds so repugnant

 

One other thought - as this idiot claims state benefits...err... what ones? Because if it's Jobseeker's Allowance - wouldn't his endless mindless nonsensical ranting be considered somehow detrimental a) to the time he SHOULD spend jobseeking or b ) to ANY decent prospective employer who would find his views utterly abhorrent? And if he's claiming Incapacity Benefit...why?? If he's on benefits - I want to know exactly WHAT benefits he's claiming. And shouldn't the authorities, too?

Here's a very interesting and relevant sppech..... speaking at the Gallery of Modern Art, Glasgow, 28 October 2009, Peter Tatchell said:

 

A good, beneficial multicultural society is one in which everyone has the freedom to pursue their own different ethics and lifestyles, while in the public sphere all citizens are treated as equals and are bound together by a shared commitment to universal human rights, regardless of the differences in their personal morality and private lives.

 

I do not, for example, insist that people of faith approve of homosexuality, but I do expect them to not discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation.

 

Where some strands of multiculturalism have gone off the rails is in their institutionalisation of difference through initiatives like the state funding of faith schools, which factionalises pupils along religious lines.

 

Another big error by some multiculturalists has been to bow to demands for cultural sensitivity by tacitly accepting that some peoples and communities can be exempt from the norms of universal human rights when it comes to issues like women’s rights and incitements to homophobic violence.

 

Moral and cultural relativism have gained ground. We are told every community is different, with different values and different ways of dealing with issues. All these differences are equally valid and must be respected. To question them, we are admonished, is to impose our way of life on others – a form of cultural imperialism.

 

It is true there is no one-size-fits-all blue-print for all societies and communities. But are there no universal humanitarian values that should be defended in all cultures at all times? Is everything relative? Should we accept practices in other communities that we would never accept in our own?

 

Allowing people in developing countries to suffer indignities that we would never tolerate in our society is a shameless double standard. It smacks of racism.

 

All peoples possess a culture, but this does not mean all cultures are equally valid and commendable. Some values and ideas are better than others. The Enlightenment was better than the Dark Ages. Freedom is better than slavery. Democracy is better than fascism. Scientific knowledge is better than superstition.

 

While all human beings deserve human rights, not everyone’s beliefs and traditions deserve respect. Political and religious ideas based on racism, patriarchy and homophobia are unworthy of respect. They need to be challenged, not tolerated.

 

One other thought - as this idiot claims state benefits...err... what ones? Because if it's Jobseeker's Allowance - wouldn't his endless mindless nonsensical ranting be considered somehow detrimental a) to the time he SHOULD spend jobseeking or b ) to ANY decent prospective employer who would find his views utterly abhorrent? And if he's claiming Incapacity Benefit...why?? If he's on benefits - I want to know exactly WHAT benefits he's claiming. And shouldn't the authorities, too?

 

 

Why is it any of your business what benefits he or anyone else claims? :rolleyes: That's between him and the Benefits Agency if he's entitled and no-one else's business. It's like me asking you what you earn or pay in tax and of course I wouldn't expect you or anyone else here to divulge that! For what it's worth I believe I read yesterday that he's on long-term Incapacity Benefit.

Edited January 5, 201015 yr by Victor Meldrew

Why is it any of your business what benefits he or anyone else claims? :rolleyes: That's between him and the Benefits Agency if he's entitled and no-one else's business. It's like me asking you what you earn or pay in tax and of course I wouldn't expect you or anyone else here to divulge that! For what it's worth I believe I read yesterday that he's on long-term Incapacity Benefit.

 

The point is Chris that he is leeching off the very country he claims to despise so much so he is a fukkin hypocrite of the highest order

 

Instead of going out to Afghanistan living in caves helping his "brothers" fight the "great satan" he is sitting in a warm centrally heated house thousands of miles away courtesy of the great satan

 

Although I do agree with him about executing the pope

Then we have the right to protest, was my point! :rolleyes:

 

i know what you meant m8, i was just highlighting the fact that we got immigration and no one voted for it.

 

Why is it any of your business what benefits he or anyone else claims? :rolleyes: That's between him and the Benefits Agency if he's entitled and no-one else's business. It's like me asking you what you earn or pay in tax and of course I wouldn't expect you or anyone else here to divulge that! For what it's worth I believe I read yesterday that he's on long-term Incapacity Benefit.

 

because its OUR money... :angry: money that us WORKERS have grafted for.

 

 

craig is not a racist, if he expressed race hatred he would be dealt which (like he was once before).

Why is it any of your business what benefits he or anyone else claims? :rolleyes: That's between him and the Benefits Agency if he's entitled and no-one else's business. It's like me asking you what you earn or pay in tax and of course I wouldn't expect you or anyone else here to divulge that! For what it's worth I believe I read yesterday that he's on long-term Incapacity Benefit.

 

Because him, like yourself, SPONGES from people like ME - people who work to pay their bills, furnish their homes.... and who work to feed the mouths of kids of layabouts like yourself.

 

THAT'S why.

 

Every penny you spend is accountable to US - the people who pay for you to sit at home in bed all day, flicking channels and surfing websites.... in fact, I hope you like the chair you're sitting in - after all, I paid for it.

 

And if he's on IB - he seems more than able to get about easily, he's obviously not, ahem, 'depressed'.... so what IS his supposed illness? I want to know.

Islam group refuses to scrap march

 

Wootton Bassett is preparing to honour two more fallen British soldiers as a controversial Islamic group pressed ahead with plans for a march through the town.

 

Islam4UK said it would apply to police "in the next few days" to march through the Wiltshire town famous for honouring dead British troops, despite calls for it to be cancelled.

 

Hundreds of people will line the streets on Tuesday to pay their respects as the bodies of Rifleman Aiden Howell and Sapper David Watson are driven along the High Street.

 

Sapper Watson, 23, of 33 Engineer Regiment - a bomb disposal expert - and Rifleman Howell, 19, of 3rd Battalion the Rifles, were killed in Afghanistan in the last week of December.

 

The men will be flown back to nearby RAF Lyneham, before their cortege passes through Wootton watched by civic leaders, relatives and British Legion members.

 

Anjem Choudary, leader of Islam4UK, said it was "full steam ahead" for the march, which is part of a campaign for the withdrawal of British troops.

 

A date for the event - to feature 500 people carrying symbolic coffins - has not been set but it will not coincide with a repatriation, Mr Choudary said.

 

Islam4UK, a branch of the extremist al-Muhajiroun movement, claims its "momentous march" will honour the thousands of Muslims who have been killed in Afghanistan.

 

But politicians, civic leaders and mainstream Muslim groups have questioned the need to hold the protest in such a sensitive place.

 

Home Secretary Alan Johnson said he would have "no hesitation" in supporting a ban on the march if police or the council requested one, and Prime Minister Gordon Brown has called the plans for the march "abhorrent and offensive".

 

from ananova.com

No black/asian/muslim person can be truly British, they can live here, they can be born here but they all descend from immigrant stock, if they didn't emigrate to Britain their parents did

 

And even that aside how do you know that those attending the march were born here and are not asylum seekers, people on student visas, illegal immigrants etc ? anyone that attends that march is not a true Brit to me as they are spitting in the faces of the British population by their behaviour

So if I suddenly decided to convert to Islam (very unlikely as I'm a committed atheist), I'd suddenly cease to be truly British - whatever that is?