I agree with you B.A. I have a fish-keeping Muslim friend, well HAD. She's from Pakistan and her daughter was in my daughter's primary school class and I went round to her house once to see her tank and she said "let me go upstairs and get you a book" so obviously I thought it would be a fish-keeping book. Was the Koran!! :rolleyes: She seemed annoyed when I said I wasn't going to read it and that she shouldn't try to impose her religion on me. Then she launched in to a tirade of how George W. Bush really was responsible for 9/11 and how Muslims are being persecuted the world over and how everything's decided by Allah, even a fish dying. She wantd me to borrow the Koran and other books and see that we're right" Can you imagine me sitting up reading the Koran? :naughty: Haven't been back since! Can't be doing with all that. :angry: Are they on some kind of mission to convert people or what?

That's hardly her imposing her religion on you. Her imposing her religion on you would be 'YOU MUST BE A MUSLIM'. I hardly think her inviting you to read a book (which you don't have to subscribe to Islamic principles to READ :/) is all that much of an imposition - after all, would you not want a friend to have the same beliefs as you?

That's hardly her imposing her religion on you. Her imposing her religion on you would be 'YOU MUST BE A MUSLIM'. I hardly think her inviting you to read a book (which you don't have to subscribe to Islamic principles to READ :/) is all that much of an imposition - after all, would you not want a friend to have the same beliefs as you?

 

 

No. Not at all. I wasn't intending to convert her to Catholicism. I wouldn't dream of getting out The Bible if she came here. :rolleyes: I've no problem with them being here as B.A. says but they shouldn't try to impose their religion on others.

Edited January 11, 201015 yr by Victor Meldrew

I'm not a racist, I was just comparing their laws to Britain's. They don't allow churches to be built, or any other place of worship besides mosques to be built for that matter, they treat women as 2nd class citizens etc. etc... but Britain has to accomodate for their needs by funding for mosque's to be built and risk security by allowing them to wear veils when if the shoe was on the other foot, they wouldn't accomodate for people of other religions at ALL - just saying. It's as if they can have it however they want when people of other religions have to compromise and change THEIR OWN ways for them. I was just saying how unfair it is on those of other religions, (not just Christian's) and if they don't like the fact they can't do certain things in a country (they have dictated to the law enough already) where they are a MINORITY then maybe they should find a place to live where they are in the majority, SUCH AS Islamic countries.

There are Muslim countries such as Lebanon and Syria where Christians are free to worship. Perhaps we should also abolish elections on the grounds that there are other countries which don't bother with them. After all, you seem to want to lower our standards to those of the worst countries when it comes to religion so why not do the same with the concept of democracy?

You may be right Tyron but muslims can't have their cake and eat it, I have no problem with muslims who either were born here or emigrated here who accept Britain is a christian culture and does not seek to change that, I have no problem at all with muslims so long as they accept christianity is the norm and are prepared to live based on BRITISH law, the ones I have issue with is the ones who were born here or emigrated here and seek change, seek Britain to become Saudi Arabia/Afghanistan, refuse to accept christianity is the British faith and want sharia law bought in

 

Want christmas banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where christmas is banned

Want alcohol banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where alcohol is banned

Want all women to have to wear veils ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where women have to wear veils

Want homosexuality banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where homosexuality is banned

Want sharia law ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where sharia law is the law of the land

 

To put it bluntly, any muslim that is not prepared to accept British culture, British law and British traditional religious faith quit your whining and fukk off, those that can accept it (the majority of muslims) are welcome here

 

Want abortion banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where abortion is banned

Want abortion banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where abortion is banned

 

I knew you would say that :rofl: :rofl:

 

 

I knew you would say that :rofl: :rofl:

 

Yet it remains a valid point

Yet it remains a valid point

 

It is not a valid point at all, I find abortion to be immoral unless there are exceptional medical circumstances but while I despise it I accept it as part of British life

 

The typical hard working family valued muslim I talk about I bet he finds it immoral that bacon is on sale but he grits his teeth about it because bacon has been part of British life for centuries, so has abortion, abortion will never be banned in this country

 

The majority of people in this country don't give a damn about abortion but immigration and racial integration will be the most important thing in the election

There are Muslim countries such as Lebanon and Syria where Christians are free to worship. Perhaps we should also abolish elections on the grounds that there are other countries which don't bother with them. After all, you seem to want to lower our standards to those of the worst countries when it comes to religion so why not do the same with the concept of democracy?

 

And Saddam Hussein's Iraq where there were churches and he even had women and christians in his cabinet, oh the irony Dubya :rolleyes: :rolleyes: replacing Saddam Hussein's secular regime with the new taleban where women have virtually no rights

I think this thread is losing its focus so to help things out:

 

17:16 GMT, Monday, 11 January 2010

BBC News

Five men guilty of threats at Luton homecoming parade

 

Five Muslim men who protested at a home-coming parade in Luton where soldiers were called murderers have been found guilty of making threats.

 

The charges related to a march by The Royal Anglian Regiment through the town in March 2009.

The five men, all from Luton, were convicted of using threatening, abusive or insulting words and behaviour likely to cause harassment and distress.

Two men were cleared of all charges at Luton Magistrates' Court.

 

Jalal Ahmed, 21, Yousaf Bashir, 29, Ziaur Rahman, 32, Shajjadar Choudhury, 31, Munim Abdul, 28, were found guilty.

 

'Abuse and insults'

Ibrahim Anderson, 32, and Jubair Ahmed, 19, who are also from Luton, were found not guilty. All had denied the charges.

 

District Judge Carolyn Mellanby said: "I have no doubt it is abusive and insulting to tell soldiers to 'Go to hell' - to call soldiers murderers, rapists and baby killers.

"It is not just insulting to the soldiers but to the citizens of Luton who were out on the streets that day to honour and welcome soldiers home.

 

"Citizens of Luton are entitled to demonstrate their support for the troops without experiencing insults and abuse."

She went on: "The fact that they say they did not intend their remarks to be insulting does not amount to defence in law.

"They were fully aware that shocking phrases in such circumstances would inevitably cause distress."

Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) lawyer Paul Harrison said: "It is always a difficult job to balance the rights of those wishing to express their views on political issues against the need to protect the public from distress and alarm.

"We welcome District Judge Mellany's finding that their conduct was threatening and did in fact cause alarm and distress to others present at the parade.

 

"She also agreed with the CPS that the defendants' behaviour, in this instance, went beyond what is reasonable when taking part in a lawful demonstration."

 

Defence lawyers had argued the right to freedom of speech was at stake and Jubair Ahmed's lawyer Sonal Dashani had referred to the French philosopher Voltaire.

He said: "Voltaire said 'I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

"That was in the 18th Century. Things have moved on since then, though perhaps not as quickly as one might have liked.

"If you believe in freedom of speech you have to accept that some things will be said that you will like and some things will be said that you will not like."

 

Angry scenes broke out during the parade for the 2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, known as The Poachers.

 

Lawyers defending the men said their clients discussed their plans to protest with police beforehand, had agreed to a time and a place to do so with them, had complied with police throughout and officers had not objected at the time to their slogans.

It is not a valid point at all, I find abortion to be immoral unless there are exceptional medical circumstances but while I despise it I accept it as part of British life

 

No, you said you wanted abortion to be banned. How is that any different to Muslims wanting Sharia law incorporated?

I think this thread is losing its focus so to help things out:

 

17:16 GMT, Monday, 11 January 2010

BBC News

Five men guilty of threats at Luton homecoming parade

 

Five Muslim men who protested at a home-coming parade in Luton where soldiers were called murderers have been found guilty of making threats.

 

The charges related to a march by The Royal Anglian Regiment through the town in March 2009.

The five men, all from Luton, were convicted of using threatening, abusive or insulting words and behaviour likely to cause harassment and distress.

Two men were cleared of all charges at Luton Magistrates' Court.

 

Jalal Ahmed, 21, Yousaf Bashir, 29, Ziaur Rahman, 32, Shajjadar Choudhury, 31, Munim Abdul, 28, were found guilty.

 

'Abuse and insults'

Ibrahim Anderson, 32, and Jubair Ahmed, 19, who are also from Luton, were found not guilty. All had denied the charges.

 

District Judge Carolyn Mellanby said: "I have no doubt it is abusive and insulting to tell soldiers to 'Go to hell' - to call soldiers murderers, rapists and baby killers.

"It is not just insulting to the soldiers but to the citizens of Luton who were out on the streets that day to honour and welcome soldiers home.

 

"Citizens of Luton are entitled to demonstrate their support for the troops without experiencing insults and abuse."

She went on: "The fact that they say they did not intend their remarks to be insulting does not amount to defence in law.

"They were fully aware that shocking phrases in such circumstances would inevitably cause distress."

Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) lawyer Paul Harrison said: "It is always a difficult job to balance the rights of those wishing to express their views on political issues against the need to protect the public from distress and alarm.

"We welcome District Judge Mellany's finding that their conduct was threatening and did in fact cause alarm and distress to others present at the parade.

 

"She also agreed with the CPS that the defendants' behaviour, in this instance, went beyond what is reasonable when taking part in a lawful demonstration."

 

Defence lawyers had argued the right to freedom of speech was at stake and Jubair Ahmed's lawyer Sonal Dashani had referred to the French philosopher Voltaire.

He said: "Voltaire said 'I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

"That was in the 18th Century. Things have moved on since then, though perhaps not as quickly as one might have liked.

"If you believe in freedom of speech you have to accept that some things will be said that you will like and some things will be said that you will not like."

 

Angry scenes broke out during the parade for the 2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, known as The Poachers.

 

Lawyers defending the men said their clients discussed their plans to protest with police beforehand, had agreed to a time and a place to do so with them, had complied with police throughout and officers had not objected at the time to their slogans.

 

I am probably going to surprise a few people here but I think it is totally wrong for the case to have been bought in the first place and is something more akin to what you would expect in North Korea or China

 

Those 5 are certainly vile but at the end of the day it was a homecoming and not a funeral and they were IMHO entitled to express their opinion vile as I found their opinions their arrest and charging set a dangerous precedent, what next ? people being arrested for speaking out against Gordon Brown ? the fact that anyone can be arrested in these circumstances sets a dangerous precedent

 

 

 

You may be right Tyron but muslims can't have their cake and eat it, I have no problem with muslims who either were born here or emigrated here who accept Britain is a christian culture and does not seek to change that, I have no problem at all with muslims so long as they accept christianity is the norm and are prepared to live based on BRITISH law, the ones I have issue with is the ones who were born here or emigrated here and seek change, seek Britain to become Saudi Arabia/Afghanistan, refuse to accept christianity is the British faith and want sharia law bought in

 

Want christmas banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where christmas is banned

Want alcohol banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where alcohol is banned

Want all women to have to wear veils ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where women have to wear veils

Want homosexuality banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where homosexuality is banned

Want sharia law ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where sharia law is the law of the land

 

To put it bluntly, any muslim that is not prepared to accept British culture, British law and British traditional religious faith quit your whining and fukk off, those that can accept it (the majority of muslims) are welcome here

 

gotta agree with this :)

 

bbc news reorts this morning say that islam4uk has been banned under anti terrorist laws :)

gotta agree with this :)

 

bbc news reorts this morning say that islam4uk has been banned under anti terrorist laws :)

 

Yeah I did wonder after I posted it as to whether I would get warned for the bluntness of my tone by for example Scott but my post was in no way racist it was not aimed at the ordinary everyday muslim only at extremists

 

Yeah I did wonder after I posted it as to whether I would get warned for the bluntness of my tone by for example Scott but my post was in no way racist it was not aimed at the ordinary everyday muslim only at extremists

 

ill not warn you for that...theres no race hate in your posts, just a strong dislike for certain sections of our community in the uk.. others hate chavs, rich buggers, tories, etc... they wouldnt be banned/warned for criticising them.. and telling them to leave the country.

Want abortion banned ? - go to Heathrow and get a 1 way ticket to somewhere where abortion is banned

 

HA HA!! Touche Danny.... Touche....

And Saddam Hussein's Iraq where there were churches and he even had women and christians in his cabinet, oh the irony Dubya :rolleyes: :rolleyes: replacing Saddam Hussein's secular regime with the new taleban where women have virtually no rights

 

Actually, he's spot on here...

 

Not to mention the fact that we're propping up a regime in Afghanistan at the moment who are scarcely any better than the fukkin' Taliban..... <_<

 

"Liberty and Justice For All", eh....? God what a fukkin' mess we've made.... And I still say that people.... ALL people have a right to have a voice to oppose this mess we've created.....

 

Banning "Islam4UK" from having perfectly legit Anti-War demos and allowing the BNP to go unhindered in their campaign of hatred is a supreme act of hypocrisy in my book....

I've yet to hear a very loud, public statement from the Muslim Council of Great Britain..... who, as ever, have been ominously silent.

 

And when did the Pope actually make a pronouncement of this nature against the IRA Russ....?? Were the likes of Gerry Adams and Martin MacGuinnes ex-communicated???? Not that I noticed..... And did the General Synod ever say anything specific about the UVF, UDA, etc......????

the taliban declared war on us... not the other way around.

 

The Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11, are you REALLY that fukkin' clueless???? It was Al Qaeda, Saudis, NOT Afghan Talibans, thicko... Totally different organisation with a totally different ideology... The Taliban were obliged to give Bin Laden the Muslim equivalent of SANCTUARY because Bin Laden invoked the privelege, which he knew the Taliban would grant him being devout Muslims....

 

And I think you'll find the US created a rod for its own back when it supported Israeli oppression of the Palestinians all throughout the previous FIVE DECADES..... I feel no sympathy for the US, I am bloody ANGRY that they dragged us into their fukkin' wars, and I'm angry that Blair was too much of fukkin' p*ssy to not tell Dubya where to stick it... 7/7 would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED without the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, simple as, Al Qaeda's quarrel was with the US and the Bush family in particular.....

Why should some dead Afghan be more important than a dead Briton ? a great patriot who signed up to defend his country over some guy in a cave with a towel over his head

 

The soldiers signed up to defend queen and country, they did not ask to go out to Iraq and Afghanistan they did so out of duty and because they were sent out there by politicians, what were they supposed to do if they didn't like being sent out there ? quit ? yeah smart move right in the middle of a credit crunch, the few that got jobs upon quitting would be security guards in a shopping centre the others would be on the dole, blame the politicians not the soldiers they are just doing their duty

 

This really has to be one of the most stupid posts I've ever read in my life, an innocent Iraqi or Afghan has even less control over this thing than a bunch of well-trained people with planes, bombs, warships, tanks, grenades, etc does..... I repeat - WE DO NOT HAVE CONSCRIPTION IN THE UK, so, sorry mate, there IS an element of choice here, we're not talking about Vietnam where 18/19 year old kids were being drafted into military service against their will, I have considerably more sympathy for them than I do any of our lot who chose this life in the armed forces.... I dont buy this argument of "oh, it was all the politicians fault" anymore than I buy the Nazi guard who says "I was only following orders" tbh.... People have to be confronted with the bad choices they make sometimes, and I would say joining the armed forces when you know DAMN WELL what all the wrongs of this war are is just plain idiotic.. Or deliberately gung-ho or jingoistic.... So, I would say ANYONE who wants to protest at an army barracks or an army recruitment centre has every right to do so......

 

You, Rich and Rob talk about this whole sh"t as if this was the first time there have been seriously ugly (and justified) protests against an unjustified war, I suggest you look up the Anti-Vietnam protests sometime..... This is Kindergarten stuff compared to some of those where you had SERIOUS riots going on.....

Because the real Scott is intelligent and would not be posting a whole lot of left wing political $h!t left right and fukkin' centre for the sake of it making himself look an idiot as this Grimly Fiendish is doing in Perspectives at the moment.

 

Oh, so I'm an "idiot" because my views dont coincide with yours Rich.... Well, I always back mine up with things called "facts"....

 

Do you really have any kind of concept of what this stupidity has actually cost us as a Nation...?? And I dont just mean the BILLIONS of pounds which is bad enough, but the cost to our CREDIBILITY in the world stage.... Most countries see us, quite rightly, as America's poodles.... The "British Bulldog" has become "America's B!tch".... Now, you claim to be some kind of "patriot" do you not...? Well, tell me just how this doesn't disgust you.....

 

I've lost any and all respect I once had for the institutions of this country because of Iraq and our arse-kissing of The US of A.... <_<