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National Charts

Chartboost
in International Charts

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Go Adele :cheer: I wonder where Hurts - Stay will chart next week (or will it be in two weeks time, I know the single is out on Monday...)

Oh, I'd thought a decent #1 was never going to happen :D :cheer:

 

Nice to see Coming Home top ten too! Low for Rihanna/Drake, hope it climbs!

Go Adele :cheer: I wonder where Hurts - Stay will chart next week (or will it be in two weeks time, I know the single is out on Monday...)

 

2 weeks time. There's a delay in the German chart

  • Author

As it looks now has "Mr. Euphorique Mubarak" my reasoned criticism of the French chart removed for the second time.

 

It seems that particular users of this site avoid the discussion on this particular discussion site. They prefer a "chat" about the #29 position of Britney Spears or the #1 position from bla bla bla.

 

The site would be a lot more interesting if there could be a discussion based on arguments.

 

So I start "official" (it's a nice word) with the French National Top-50 Chart.

Edited by Chartboost

The site would be a lot more interesting if there could be a discussion based on arguments.

 

:rolleyes:

 

There is no discussing with you. You name your arguments and that's it. No matter what anyone answers to that, you just repeat them.

 

 

@ Euphorique: Wouldn't it be better if there was only one thread for all of Chartboost's fake charts instead of tons of them that make the forum more and more confusing?

Edited by AshDeluxe

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Ok Ash, I knew that you can add little to this forum. For example, you're the one who don't answer my (simple) questions. I argue my story, you don't. Talking about fake btw. :(

Edited by Chartboost

Well, I stop discussing if I see that it leads to nothing. But let's try it again...

 

 

You say the official charts are bad because they are too influenced by the music industry. But why then add airplay? This is maybe the factor that can be influenced the most by record companies - as we saw in the U.S. where record companies bought extra airplay time for their songs so that they could chart higher.

 

Adding airplay doesn't help to show what people like the most - like Euphorique said: in the UK Radio 1 is the dominating radio station. Anything that's A-playlisted there would automatically chart high - even if the only person in the whole country who likes the song would be Radio 1's program managing director. This can't be right.

 

I only accept adding airplay to a chart when there's not enough sales to reflect the most popular songs. But in the digital era, we're far from that. Sales are higher than ever before. There's absolutely no need to add airplay.

 

Even worse is adding album sales to a song chart. I really don't understand it. At least in the way your chart does it with picking one song from the album. I could maybe accept if all songs from an album were taken into account. But this would of course make the chart unreadable.

Generally adding album sales isn't necessary, as in the digital era everyone can buy an album track if he likes it. If he likes the album he buys the album (which then is counted for the albums chart), and if he only likes one or two songs from the album, then he buys these 2 songs (which counts for the singles charts - yes, even for the official charts!).

Digital sales reflect the popularity of songs better than any other record format did ever before. There is no "sold out" for downloads, they're always available. So the chart isn't influenced by the availability of songs (except for new releases, but this changes now with the end of the airplay/release-delay).

 

And of course you're not allowed to post your charts in the official chart threads. This chart here is made up, no one can verify the data - and it's unofficial. If you'd be allowed to post it then anyone could post their "own French (etc) chart" in the threads, based on unknown sources. You have your threads, you should stick to them.

Edited by AshDeluxe

  • Author
Well, I stop discussing if I see that it leads to nothing. But let's try it again...

You say the official charts are bad because they are too influenced by the music industry. But why then add airplay? This is maybe the factor that can be influenced the most by record companies - as we saw in the U.S. where record companies bought extra airplay time for their songs so that they could chart higher.

 

Adding airplay doesn't help to show what people like the most - like Euphorique said: in the UK Radio 1 is the dominating radio station. Anything that's A-playlisted there would automatically chart high - even if the only person in the whole country who likes the song would be Radio 1's program managing director. This can't be right.

 

I only accept adding airplay to a chart when there's not enough sales to reflect the most popular songs. But in the digital era, we're far from that. Sales are higher than ever before. There's absolutely no need to add airplay.

 

Even worse is adding album sales to a song chart. I really don't understand it. At least in the way your chart does it with picking one song from the album. I could maybe accept if all songs from an album were taken into account. But this would of course make the chart unreadable.

Generally adding album sales isn't necessary, as in the digital era everyone can buy an album track if he likes it. If he likes the album he buys the album (which then is counted for the albums chart), and if he only likes one or two songs from the album, then he buys these 2 songs (which counts for the singles charts - yes, even for the official charts!).

Digital sales reflect the popularity of songs better than any other record format did ever before. There is no "sold out" for downloads, they're always available. So the chart isn't influenced by the availability of songs (except for new releases, but this changes now with the end of the airplay/release-delay).

 

And of course you're not allowed to post your charts in the official chart threads. This chart here is made up, no one can verify the data - and it's unofficial. If you'd be allowed to post it then anyone could post their "own French (etc) chart" in the threads, based on unknown sources. You have your threads, you should stick to them.

 

So a discussion leads to nothing when somebody don't agree with you. That's an interesting point of view. In Egypt lives a guy who thinks the same........(joke)!

 

I never said "official charts" are bad. The Euro 200 however uses these charts I suppose. They add airplay because they find it an important indicator, however it could be influenced by the record companies. In the Netherlands is this kind of activity illegal. Radio stations can receive heavy fines above the media authorities. The airplay data from over 1500 radio stations (which draws from Euro 200) is an important indicator of the popularity of a track. The radio is listened to by millions of people and strengthen the collective musical experience. Pity is that many stations working with music producers, so the contribution from the DJ is minimized.

 

Concerning album tracks: They've been added just because of the downloads. The two most downloaded tracks are counted for the chart, as I told you earlier. It's a fair system I suppose. They have developed a system which shows the popularity of a track. The need to show album-, sales, download-, and airplay-charts seperatly isn't necessary anymore I suppose. They create a chart that gives everyone in one view a picture of the popularity of a track. The Dutch top 40 uses a similar system, however that chart is NOT the official Dutch chart it's far out the most popular one in The Netherlands (The "official" chart is compiled by GFK). Such a system is for chart analysts perhaps less interesting but more for music consumers.

Do you really think that the compilers of the Euro 200 and other charts they make, every week by throwing dice to determine where each track is in the charts? There is a clear philosophy. There you can agree or not. Innovative in any case. Instead of appreciating, you come no further than the word "fake". By the way you can't verify the "official" charts anyway. We don't have access to that information, and importantly, you do not know how the information is created. We must assume that information is gathered and processed by their own rules. The Euro 200 is clear about their rules.

 

I guess these charts made by APC-stats are an addition to buzzjack and give a clear picture of the musicscene. It's a way of experience I guess. There's much to say for your opinion, that's clear, but my opinion has supoporters too. I think it is important to know what you want with a chart. A chart for broadcast must meet different requirements than a list of the record industry. Both are related to targets. The trick is to put them on a balanced way and to compare the two interests together. So that gives another dimension to the concept of official charts.

 

Concerning the post on the French chart thread following: I only wanted to make a statement that the add of downloads to the French "official" chart makes it more in line with the French National Top-50. Only APC-stats did it already for more than a year ago. :rolleyes:

 

Have a nice sunday.

Edited by Chartboost

I never said "official charts" are bad. The Euro 200 however uses these charts I suppose. They add airplay because they find it an important indicator, however it could be influenced by the record companies. In the Netherlands is this kind of activity illegal. Radio stations can receive heavy fines above the media authorities. The airplay data from over 1500 radio stations (which draws from Euro 200) is an important indicator of the popularity of a track. The radio is listened to by millions of people and strengthen the collective musical experience. Pity is that many stations working with music producers, so the contribution from the DJ is minimized.

 

What you say about a collective musical experience is of course true. If someone spends his holidays abroad and hears a specific song on the radio all day, he of course thinks this has got to be one of the biggest hits there. But then again, if you consider the situation in Germany: Over here, radios don't play the songs that they think most people like, they play the songs that most people don't hate (so they don't switch the station). This leads to a terribly onesided MOR radio where inoffensive songs are played all day.

If you spent your holidays in Germany in the past few months, you might have thought that, for example, James Blunt's "Stay The Night" was one of the 3 or 4 biggest hits of the winter, as radio stations played it 24/7. But it actually only spent 6 weeks in the top 20 of the sales chart. The same can be seen with every Robbie Williams or Ich+Ich single. On the other hand, "The Time" by the BEPs only reached #24 in the airplay chart although it spent 4 weeks on top of the sales chart. It's a "love it or hate it"-song - and there are just too many people who hate it, so it's not radio friendly enough for Germany.

This leads to the situation that airplay charts don't necessarily show the most popular tracks but those that least people hate right now.

 

In the UK, the radio situation is different I think, but there it is even more unsuitable to include airplay in the official chart. Radio 1 is dominating the radio market, and they actually play a lot of new and non-MOR music. They have very often songs on their A-playlist which later terribly flop commercially. So the program director thought people might like them, but they actually don't. Hence having good airplay means nothing in terms of actual popularity. So the airplay chart isn't capable of showing what is really popular. It's just what program directors think what might be popular - but they can be wrong.

 

I understand that you have a different opinion on this as you're a program director yourself IIRC...

Concerning album tracks: They've been added just because of the downloads. The two most downloaded tracks are counted for the chart, as I told you earlier. It's a fair system I suppose. They have developed a system which shows the popularity of a track. The need to show album-, sales, download-, and airplay-charts seperatly isn't necessary anymore I suppose.

But the problem is, nobody knows exactly what was the reason for a consumer to buy an album. It could be the current hit single, it could be the 2nd most downloaded song, it could be a completely different song - or maybe the buyer just wants the album because he likes the artist and the music in general, but no specific song. It's impossible to tell. It's only speculation - that's why you shouldn't mix album and single sales.

On the German Top 50, there's a song by Helene Fischer which has been charting for 6 weeks now. But it is neither her current radio single nor does it have any significant digital sales - it's only there because her Best Of album is selling pretty well. That is just random.

 

And even if you include album sales into the singles chart - how much do you want to weight them? Sometimes an album #1 sells only 10k, sometimes 200k. If already a song from a 10-15k album (I don't think Helene Fischer sells way more right now) can stay in the top 50 for weeks, a real strong selling #1 album should for sure get at least a top 3 song? But then again, nobody knows German record sales... -_-

 

Do you really think that the compilers of the Euro 200 and other charts they make, every week by throwing dice to determine where each track is in the charts? There is a clear philosophy. There you can agree or not. Innovative in any case. Instead of appreciating, you come no further than the word "fake". By the way you can't verify the "official" charts anyway. We don't have access to that information, and importantly, you do not know how the information is created. We must assume that information is gathered and processed by their own rules. The Euro 200 is clear about their rules.

 

German charts are also clear about their rules. But, well, no one can verify the data, as private persons don't have access to the original sales data. But I'm sure, APC have neither...

 

I guess these charts made by APC-stats are an addition to buzzjack and give a clear picture of the musicscene.

 

It's definetely an addition, even though I'm not truly convinced of the system as I said. But maybe you should be a little less "aggressive" with posting it... ;) There are just too many threads for it, concerning there's apparently little interest from other users (measured by other user's feedback). Maybe you should limit yourself to only post the most important ones and not all of them. ;)

And of course you should keep them in their respective threads and not bug other users who only want to read about the official charts...

Edited by AshDeluxe

  • Author

Okay Ash. Thank you for your extensive reaction.

Although I still agree with the philosophy of APC-stats, you certainly have some issues that could improve the system. I'll definitely ask for information about the airplay and album data and how they are reflected in the chart.

I sent your post to them.

 

I am not aware of any aversion to contribute my calls. You have noticed that I think the PDS & AAS system is an excellent system to measure the popularity of a track.

 

It has always been my intention through my contributions to show that there are alternative charts. :rolleyes:

Can you not just post the actual charts in this thread? All these ongoing discussions over which chart is more "acurate" is really getting tedious to read - so if I see a long post now in the Global Charts forum I'll ignore it as I'm pretty sure I know what it's going to say. -_-

Dear god get over it :rolleyes: I'll keep deleting your posts and anyone else's who keeps bringing that issue up in the french chart thread, just like I said I would, its been discussed a million times before and its getting tedious and going round in circles. Plus, no member who wants to check the french chart out likes to see dozens of extensive posts babbling on and on about whether your chart method is better or not... Start a new topic about that issue, I want my topic to remain clean thank you.

 

:rolleyes:

 

There is no discussing with you. You name your arguments and that's it. No matter what anyone answers to that, you just repeat them.

@ Euphorique: Wouldn't it be better if there was only one thread for all of Chartboost's fake charts instead of tons of them that make the forum more and more confusing?

 

I'll see if I can do something about it, your complaint has been addressed.

  • Author

I thought Buzzjack.com is a discussion site. The chart you mention can be viewed on the internet wherever you like. When you don't like a discussion, you could stay away from it.

 

@Ash: Let me know if you want to read the answers from APC-stats on your mail.

 

There are people over here who only like to talk about bla bla standing at #5 this week......... :wacko:

Edited by Chartboost

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