I guess the skiffle boom would have lasted a lot longer if The Beatles hadn't have come along :lol: I agree with some of the criticisms, they were cultural magpies, but it's the way that they distilled all these disparate influences into an unmistakeable formula. In terms of songwriting, production and innovation, they really pushed the boundaries. They went through more stylistic changes in their 8 year lifespan than anyone. And I think it was the friendly competition of their rivals - The Byrds, The Stones, The Beach Boys - that drove them on to constantly deliver better.

Rob - ah, but most of those techniques will have come straight from George Martin and I did contend that his style was as much an influence as anything else. I'm sure Sgt Pepper would have sounded remarkably different if it didn't have his trademark production all over it!

So is George Martin responsible for pop?

So is George Martin responsible for pop?

 

Nah, Brian Epstein.

Rob - ah, but most of those techniques will have come straight from George Martin and I did contend that his style was as much an influence as anything else. I'm sure Sgt Pepper would have sounded remarkably different if it didn't have his trademark production all over it!

 

nope.... you overrate martin. on that tv prog about greatest composers a couple of years ago it was lennon and mccartney who were responsible for the innovation with help from starr/harrison. on 'rubber soul' 7 of the 14 new innovations could be found on 'tomorrow never knows', indeed brian matthew on radio 2's sounds of the 60's recently referanced this. lennon told martin which sound he was trying to get.

 

Nah, Brian Epstein.

 

not really, he was the manager who knew how to package the beat groups... but the music was already there. the beatles, gerry & the pacemakers etc were already playing 'beat' music. epstein was in the right place at the right time.... abit like mac claren, the music was happening regardless.

 

cod correctly states that the beatles consolidated into the 'group' form of music we know now, from other scources. the beatles early on never hid their influences, in fact no group did! beat, r&b, all referance american rock n roll, blues or jazz musicians as their inspiration and many started out using covers.

Well, I shall concede :)

I think if the Beatles hadnt been around, another band would have come along and done a similar thing and still revolutionized pop music.

I think if the Beatles hadnt been around, another band would have come along and done a similar thing and still revolutionized pop music.

 

i think you are probably right...

I think if the Beatles hadnt been around, another band would have come along and done a similar thing and still revolutionized pop music.

 

 

I think it may have taken more than one group to do all the Beatles/George Martin did. The advances in ideas and techniques may have come from different sources.

I think it may have taken more than one group to do all the Beatles/George Martin did. The advances in ideas and techniques may have come from different sources.

 

i agree, i think inovations would have come in from a variety of scources istead of primarily one ... well the beatles kinda focused new techniques...

I think it may have taken more than one group to do all the Beatles/George Martin did. The advances in ideas and techniques may have come from different sources.

 

I have to agree.

 

That is why the domination of the Beatles both commercially & artistically is so incredible when looking back from the perspective of todays musical climate.

 

I just can't imagine the Beach Boys; the Rolling Stones; the Kinks or the Who having close to that much impact if the Beatles never existed.

I have to agree.

 

That is why the domination of the Beatles both commercially & artistically is so incredible when looking back from the perspective of todays musical climate.

 

I just can't imagine the Beach Boys; the Rolling Stones; the Kinks or the Who having close to that much impact if the Beatles never existed.

TBH I don't think any of those four wouldn't have necessarily reached the heights they did if they hadn't had the doors blown open for them by The Beatles. The Beach Boys produced their best music in direct response to what was being produced by the Fab Four. That said, I don't think the Beatles got on without a few influences, probably Elvis, Little Richard and Bob Dylan.

TBH I don't think any of those four wouldn't have necessarily reached the heights they did if they hadn't had the doors blown open for them by The Beatles. The Beach Boys produced their best music in direct response to what was being produced by the Fab Four. That said, I don't think the Beatles got on without a few influences, probably Elvis, Little Richard and Bob Dylan.

 

absoltely, the beach boys only got credible when they dropped that awful 'surf sound'.. but that credibility seemed to be concentrated on 'pet sounds', before and after that were they really that good?..

I have loved Smiley Smile, the album that came out of the aborted Smile sessions for ages. I like it more that Pet Sounds (but then I'm probably the only person who thinks that.)