Posted May 25, 201015 yr Who do you guys want to see win? And is anyone here actually voting? I'm joining the Labour Party for the first time tomorrow, mainly so I can vote in this. Imo, Labour's new leader needs to make a decisive shift to the left, so that they're a distinctive alternative to the Coalition. It's no good just scrabbling for the centre-ground and just opposing everything the government does while not actually proposing any alternatives - as we saw with Cameron, that might get you high poll ratings, but once the election comes and people realise you haven't actually promised anything, you're screwed. If they play their cards right, Labour can capitalise on the inevitable public anger at the cuts: I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I can't understand why low earners like me and people in the public sector have to help pay off the deficit, when it was the rich and the private sector who caused the mess in the first place. Labour need to propose to finally bring in "super-taxes" of about 60-65% on the very richest, and big corporation taxes on the banks. Also, Labour need to pick out a few key issues to focus on. One of Brown's biggest problems was that, as he was such a bad communicator, people really didn't know what Labour stood for anymore. I think three key priorities for Labour should be: like I've said, pledging to make the richest and the banks pay off most of the deficit; a pledge to provide everyone with a living wage, relative to the cost of living standards in each region; and support for gay marriage (a symbolic move to replace the Lib Dems as the party of social liberalism). If they really focus on these, they should be a big hit with people and imo should get an overall majority in the next election, which I still think will come in the next two years. In terms of which leader to go for... I'm most impressed with Ed Miliband at this stage (and I have a feeling he will be the one who wins). Imo, he's the best combination of left-leaning philosophy and 'electability'.
May 25, 201015 yr tbh i dont care. i guess itll be a milliband, trouble is, they look exactly the same as cameron and clegg. boys in suits.
May 25, 201015 yr Milliband's are both very socially awkward and poor communicators, both are more like trainspotters or multi player gaming geeks and are best off in a strategic behind the scenes role as opposed to being leader Cameron is probably the best political orator since Churchill and Clegg is a fine debater/orator too so either of the Milliband's would be eaten for breakfast in a tv debate I detest all things Labour but I admired Andy Burnham during Labour's post election shame, he had the honesty and honour to go on tv and say Labour lost the election and should go into opposition and I respected him for that even if he is an expenses crook If I was a Labour supporter I would vote Burnham
May 25, 201015 yr Who do you guys want to see win? And is anyone here actually voting? I'm joining the Labour Party for the first time tomorrow, mainly so I can vote in this. Imo, Labour's new leader needs to make a decisive shift to the left, so that they're a distinctive alternative to the Coalition. It's no good just scrabbling for the centre-ground and just opposing everything the government does while not actually proposing any alternatives - as we saw with Cameron, that might get you high poll ratings, but once the election comes and people realise you haven't actually promised anything, you're screwed. If they play their cards right, Labour can capitalise on the inevitable public anger at the cuts: I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I can't understand why low earners like me and people in the public sector have to help pay off the deficit, when it was the rich and the private sector who caused the mess in the first place. Labour need to propose to finally bring in "super-taxes" of about 60-65% on the very richest, and big corporation taxes on the banks. Also, Labour need to pick out a few key issues to focus on. One of Brown's biggest problems was that, as he was such a bad communicator, people really didn't know what Labour stood for anymore. I think three key priorities for Labour should be: like I've said, pledging to make the richest and the banks pay off most of the deficit; a pledge to provide everyone with a living wage, relative to the cost of living standards in each region; and support for gay marriage (a symbolic move to replace the Lib Dems as the party of social liberalism). If they really focus on these, they should be a big hit with people and imo should get an overall majority in the next election, which I still think will come in the next two years. In terms of which leader to go for... I'm most impressed with Ed Miliband at this stage (and I have a feeling he will be the one who wins). Imo, he's the best combination of left-leaning philosophy and 'electability'. While I am sure you mean well your idea of soaking the rich (mostly businessmen and entrepreneurs) would actually COST this country money and would be a token gesture that would benefit no one bar offshore tax havens, trust funds and lawyers and accountants trained in the art of tax avoidance loopholes We need a low tax economy to encourage investors and companies to set up offices in the UK, to retain the very best businessmen and doctors/scientists and to fight off competition from the rest of Europe I am in favour of a flat rate tax rate for ALL so that people will be encouraged and motivated to start businesses, so that overseas investors will start factories and offices here instead of Frankfurt or Paris, so that the top brains of this country (surgeons and scientists would be affected by your 65%) would stay here instead of going to work abroad and so that those that are exploiting loopholes will stop I would abolish income tax under £10,000 and then have a flat rate for ALL of the current basic rate of income tax
May 25, 201015 yr Milliband's are both very socially awkward and poor communicators, both are more like trainspotters or multi player gaming geeks and are best off in a strategic behind the scenes role as opposed to being leader Cameron is probably the best political orator since Churchill and Clegg is a fine debater/orator too so either of the Milliband's would be eaten for breakfast in a tv debate You seem to be mixing up David Miliband with the both of them, because the vast majority of political commentators (or hell, general OBSERVERS) agree that Ed Miliband is a far, far better communicator than his brother, and very capable of handling himself in a debate. Cameron the best political orator since Churchill? The best political orator since Churchill would've won all three of those debates hands-down, no questions asked. As it was he lost two of them to Clegg and won one by a narrow margin. Clegg has a greater stake to claim to be the best political orator since Churchill - not that I agree with either claim. Hague's the only obviously fantastic political orator in Britain at the moment I'd say... And your point about 60-65% affecting surgeons and scientists is absolute crap. Since when did it become impossible to set a top rate above £150K? And if you were at all correct on your complaints against the tax rate, then the rich would have been driven away by it - it was predicted that 9000 City workers would leave for tax havens because of it. Instead the leaving rate fell by 9%!
May 25, 201015 yr I detest all things Labour but I admired Andy Burnham during Labour's post election shame, he had the honesty and honour to go on tv and say Labour lost the election and should go into opposition and I respected him for that even if he is an expenses crook If I was a Labour supporter I would vote Burnham Being Labour leader is far more than just saying that the party lost, regardless of how much you wish that were so :P
May 25, 201015 yr Cameron is probably the best political orator since Churchill You're making the fatal mistake of forgetting the man Cameron tried to base himself off in terms of delivery and ended up coming off sounding like a poor imitator of... http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/pxtonyblair.jpg
May 25, 201015 yr You seem to be mixing up David Miliband with the both of them, because the vast majority of political commentators (or hell, general OBSERVERS) agree that Ed Miliband is a far, far better communicator than his brother, and very capable of handling himself in a debate. Cameron the best political orator since Churchill? The best political orator since Churchill would've won all three of those debates hands-down, no questions asked. As it was he lost two of them to Clegg and won one by a narrow margin. Clegg has a greater stake to claim to be the best political orator since Churchill - not that I agree with either claim. Hague's the only obviously fantastic political orator in Britain at the moment I'd say... And your point about 60-65% affecting surgeons and scientists is absolute crap. Since when did it become impossible to set a top rate above £150K? And if you were at all correct on your complaints against the tax rate, then the rich would have been driven away by it - it was predicted that 9000 City workers would leave for tax havens because of it. Instead the leaving rate fell by 9%! The important thing in this country is to get people starting and growing businesses, that is ultimately where job creation comes from, small businesses and anyone who starts a business is going to have an aspiration to earn £150k a year so where is the incentive in an entrepreneur setting up on his own to be a success when you are telling him 'Work 16 hrs a day 5 days a week and we will take 3 days of your money and give it to scroungers and fund pointless wars'
May 25, 201015 yr You're making the fatal mistake of forgetting the man Cameron tried to base himself off in terms of delivery and ended up coming off sounding like a poor imitator of... http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/pxtonyblair.jpg Maybe so lol but Cameron's speech on the afternoon after the general election was one of the best delivered political speeches I have ever heard before, had a touch of Martin Luther King / Barack Obama / Michael Heseltine at conservative party conferences about it and those are the 3 best orators for me that I have seen since Churchill
May 25, 201015 yr The important thing in this country is to get people starting and growing businesses, that is ultimately where job creation comes from, small businesses and anyone who starts a business is going to have an aspiration to earn £150k a year so where is the incentive in an entrepreneur setting up on his own to be a success when you are telling him 'Work 16 hrs a day 5 days a week and we will take 3 days of your money and give it to scroungers and fund pointless wars' You missed my point. I asked whether or not it was impossible to set the top rate higher than 150K - for all you know Danny could have intended a top rate of, say, £1 million p.a. Are you seriously trying to say that people wouldn't bother setting up a business just because of the fact that a top rate of 60-65% on £1 million p.a. exists? I'm sure most people realise that a. it's unlikely they'd be that successful, and b. even if they were, that's still £400,000 in their pocket.
May 25, 201015 yr You missed my point. I asked whether or not it was impossible to set the top rate higher than 150K - for all you know Danny could have intended a top rate of, say, £1 million p.a. Are you seriously trying to say that people wouldn't bother setting up a business just because of the fact that a top rate of 60-65% on £1 million p.a. exists? I'm sure most people realise that a. it's unlikely they'd be that successful, and b. even if they were, that's still £400,000 in their pocket. Setting it at £1m will bring in no extra income though except maybe for the Cayman Islands and Belize, people who earn £1m would employ lawyers and accountants to ensure they don't pay tax so setting any oppressive tax rate won't bring in money it would just be symbolic I have no objection to windfall taxes on banks, oil companies, energy companies etc, I do think that the likes of Shell, BP, Centrica, banks etc are fleecing their customers in order to just make profits so windfall taxes would be more productive than hammering millionaires who will just exploit loopholes and pay little or nothing
May 25, 201015 yr Funny how the inheritance tax cut isn't symbolic though :P I am against inheritance tax it is immoral to pickpocket the dead which is what inheritance tax is effectively doing, the dead by and large paid taxes while they were alive and paid VAT on their possessions when they bought them so they are being taxed twice, inheritance tax is evil as far as I am concerned
May 25, 201015 yr Maybe so lol but Cameron's speech on the afternoon after the general election was one of the best delivered political speeches I have ever heard before, had a touch of Martin Luther King / Barack Obama / Michael Heseltine at conservative party conferences about it and those are the 3 best orators for me that I have seen since Churchill MLK? Obama? Are you actually kidding me? Cameron has nothing in common with either in the real world, he's a PR man who took an interest in politics and found an opportunity. Simple as.
May 25, 201015 yr Funny how the inheritance tax cut isn't symbolic though :P The important thing is to have taxation at a level where people will pay tax and that will bring in more money I read a while back that some companies were paying their directors works of art, rare vintage wines, gold, vintage cars, shares etc as opposed to paying them full salary so that the directors would be able to avoid taxes at higher rates, that kind of thing will go on and go on more under Danny's idea, tax avoiders and their accountants are much smarter than politicians and HMRC employees. Best thing is a flat rate of low tax for all and then people who are avoiding tax will be more inclined to pay tax
May 25, 201015 yr Maybe so lol but Cameron's speech on the afternoon after the general election was one of the best delivered political speeches I have ever heard before, had a touch of Martin Luther King / Barack Obama / Michael Heseltine at conservative party conferences about it and those are the 3 best orators for me that I have seen since Churchill I think you need to download a little of Tony Benn speaking in his heyday, then you'll hear an orator. Cameron isn't even the best on his own front bench. Although, to be fair, all the speeches by all three leaders immediately after the election were pretty darn good. -- Richard
May 25, 201015 yr The important thing is to have taxation at a level where people will pay tax and that will bring in more money I read a while back that some companies were paying their directors works of art, rare vintage wines, gold, vintage cars, shares etc as opposed to paying them full salary so that the directors would be able to avoid taxes at higher rates, that kind of thing will go on and go on more under Danny's idea, tax avoiders and their accountants are much smarter than politicians and HMRC employees. Best thing is a flat rate of low tax for all and then people who are avoiding tax will be more inclined to pay tax Why is the best thing a flat rate of low tax? It isn't THAT difficult to work out 50% of £150,000, and the gains from people who will stop avoiding tax are minimal compared to the massive cuts in public spending that such a ridiculous policy would require.
May 25, 201015 yr I am against inheritance tax it is immoral to pickpocket the dead which is what inheritance tax is effectively doing, the dead by and large paid taxes while they were alive and paid VAT on their possessions when they bought them so they are being taxed twice, inheritance tax is evil as far as I am concerned No, it isn't. It isn't taxing income of the dead, it's taxing unearned income of who inherits it!
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