At the end of the day, its all a label, what matters is if you like it or not. Unfortunately for you, only the "serious" dance djs consider eurobeat pop, and everyone else says its dance. Since I consider it dance to, I posted it over here. That's all really

 

Well, surely if the serious Dance DJs (who, dont forget, created the whole thing in the first place, so they would know really...) dont consider Eurobeat Dance, surely they have a point; I would tend to give their opinion weight the same as if Johnny Rotten slagged off the Pop-Punk bands saying they aint Punk....

 

There has to be clear lines when it comes to genres, otherwise there's no point in having them at all. This is why the Brits stopped having the Dance Award category - the term has become meaningless thanks to people misappropriating it....

Yeah but there is a clear difference between Sash, Culture Beat, DJ Sakin & Friends compared to Sugababes... the Brits went too far out of the genre

Yeah but there is a clear difference between Sash, Culture Beat, DJ Sakin & Friends compared to Sugababes... the Brits went too far out of the genre

 

For once though, I dont think you can actually blame the Brits. I blame the Music Journalists and record companies a lot more than the Brits for totally muddying the issue and ascribing the term 'Dance' to stuff that blatantly was nothing of the sort....

 

Back in the early/mid 90s, people (and journalists) actually knew what the terms "Dance" and "Techno" actually meant and actually knew which acts were and which acts weren't dance (regardless of things like Remixes and the like..), then Dance mags like M8 started having editorial policy changes and it got totally confused... I blame the journalists and the music industry itself for trying to palm off pop as Dance music...

 

I suppose in a sense, all music with a beat is music you can dance to because it has a beat BUT if you are gonna have a specific genre called "Dance", then there has to be boundaries as to what that actually means.... You can 'dance' to stuff like Take That or Sugababes or Nine Inch Nails even, but it aint "Dance" music is it...? Neither though, is stuff like Culture Beat, Snap or 2 Unlimited and it never even was described as Dance music back when it came out, I certainly never heard it in any of the Clubs or Raves that I went to. A few of the more commercial Gay Clubs may play stuff like this now, but only out of a sense of irony or kitsch.. What I object to though, is all this casual revisionist re-writing of history here (which is why I'm so peed off about it..) by people who weren't even there at the time, I was there at the time (rave culture, House, the "second summer of love", techno, Industrial, Ambient, the original Trance Techno, etc is all from MY generation..), so I do actually know what I'm talking about....

 

Interested to know though - as a journalist, have you actually talked to or interviewed any of the original Club DJs or talked to any of the "Summer of '89" Ravers, Clubbers or Crusties who were out there in places like Ibiza or Goa WAAAAAAAY before such places and events ever became popular amongst the masses....? I think you'd get some very interesting stories and perspectives if you did.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Super_eurobeat_160.jpg

The music sub-genre Eurobeat is closely related to Hi-NRG and disco. It is also very closely related to the Japanese Para Para dance culture

Eurobeat, as the name implies, is a music genre from Europe. Stemming from Italo Disco, it is generally held to have originated in Italy in the late '70s and early '80s. Despite being European in origin, its main market has always been Japan, where its synthetic and emotionally upbeat stylings are popular. Even though many Europeans and Americans have heard Eurodance, Eurobeat is still a largely unknown genre in Europe where other types of music are dominant.

Although highly popular in Japan, Eurobeat has become more and more popular in the Western world in the past few years. The anime Initial D, based on the manga by Shuichi Shigeno, uses Eurobeat music regularly in its episodes during racing scenes between the characters, and because of this it has come to the attention of some anime fans outside Japan.

Eurobeat's sound is its main link to its italo disco origins, where it was just one of many different experiments in pure-electronic dance. There are certain synth instruments that recur across the entire genre: a sequenced octave bass, distinctive brass and harp sounds, and tight, predictable precussion in the background. These sounds are layered with vocals and natural instruments(guitar and piano are common) into complex, ever-shifting melodies that, at their best, burst with energy.

Eurobeat genre
Eurobeat can create a number of different genres, while still keeping its own originality intact. In the late 1970s and early 1980s there were many new genres emerging from the creation of electronic music. Disco was the beginning of a whole new era in music, with popular artists such as George Clinton and Earth, Wind & Fire. However when disco music quickly became unpopular in North America, it remained in the limelight in Europe.

While modern music is often recognized by its lyrics, Eurobeat is recognized not primarilly by its lyrics, but by its synthesized chorus known as the Sabi (short for Sabishigaru, not to be mistaken for the Japanese Wabi-sabi), which means "to remember someone or something" in Japanese. This of course refers to the generally acknowledged fact that you mostly remember the Sabi as opposed to the stanzas of the Eurobeat song. This broad genre can create a great number of different "sub-genres" within it because of this combination of harmony and rhythm. Sometimes it can still sound like the old disco music we know, sometimes it can be very "fast and happy" like Happy Hardcore or Speed Music, and occasionally it even uses guitars as a method of Saiba.

One peculiar thing about Eurobeat is the fact that each artist is often credited with a variety of different aliases (See "Popular Eurobeat Artists" below for details). Artists usually adopt different stage names according to the mood of each song, or depending on who wrote their lyrics. For instance, Ennio Zanini has stated on the SCP Music website that he goes by the name of "Fastway" on songs which are more upbeat and sprinkled with high-pitched female backing vocals, and goes by "Dusty" on his more "serious" tracks. Also a popular theory is that Eurobeat artists such as Clara Moroni and Giancarlo Pasquini manufacture the same acts under many different names in order to "compete with themselves". (Compare to legendary House producer Thomas Bangalter, who is infamous for the same practice).

Eurobeat also has notoriety for name recognition, lifting titles from popular songs and using them as the names of Eurobeat tracks. Examples are "Like a Virgin", "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", and "Station to Station." The Eurobeat songs that reuse song titles typically have nothing to do with the song it lifted its title from (i.e., not a cover).


The Eurobeat formula
Like most musical genres, (modern) Eurobeat has a fairly specific formula to it:

intro → riff → a melo → b melo → sabi → riff → outro

The intro is the introduction into the song, the riff is the musical part without voices. The a melo, or a-melody is the first verse in the song, the b melo (b-melody) is the bridge of the song, and the sabi is the chorus of the song. The outro is the ending. There will also be a c melo (the second a melo) after the first sabi, as well as another a/b melo variant after the second sabi.

Eurobeat is notorious for its complex rhythm, always attempting to throw the listener in another direction, but the flow is usually a one way ticket. After the synth, the song usually repeats the verse, bridge, and chorus (although with different lyrics most the time) and then goes into a "breakdown" where there can be a variety of new parts to the song including a guitar solo, the dropping and adding of percussion, or a plain instrumental version of the track. Typically though, this only encompasses the verse and bridge; the chorus is usually sung once again, and then the synth and extro play. The extro can either be the synth played again, or something reminiscent of the intro. Another thing to note is that the intro is somewhat like an instrumental rendition of the verse, bridge, and chorus, while the synth is a lot like a synthesized version of the chorus. They don't have to sound completely similar, but they do in fact fit on top of each other most of the time.

There's a particular style of formula when it comes to the different "labels" of the Eurobeat world:

A Beat C: Typically follows the formula above, rarely straying away from a different type. This label is considered by the majority of the Eurobeat world to be the most "mainstream" label, taking a little bit of everything and adding it to their own style. They also have the largest amount of singers, which gives them variety.

Boom Boom Beat: This label can resemble house music very much if you listen closely. They typically use the formula of adding a new section of percussion, bass, and synth after every 4th measure. After the last synth (sometimes after the chorus is goes straight to the following) there is typically a percussion drop until there are only 4 measures of a "kick" or "hat" left. As with Vibration, BBB can be somewhat unpredictable, but they don't tend to stray away from this formula.

Delta: Usually drops percussion during the breakdown while the singer sings the first verse and bridge again. Synths are typically very "harsh"-sounding, and bass is relatively low depending on the producer of each track.

Hi-NRG Attack: As with Delta, percussion usually drops during the breakdown. The thing with this label is that it's known for its relatively "quirky" lyrics and rhythm. Synths are known to be very wild, sometimes playing a different note at every 1/4 beat.

Time: The interesting thing about Time is that most of the label's music includes a very long Intro and typically ends with a fade-out of the synth instead of an extro (which most labels don't do too often). To many, their synth can either be very intense, or can be a rather subtle, somewhat duplicated synth from previous songs.

Vibration: This label can surprise you. Sometimes they'll put in a simple percussion drop during the breakdown, and sometimes there is a very intense guitar solo or even new lyrics. Very unpredictable.

SCP Music: SCP almost always follows A Beat C's formula. Rarely is there ever a percussion drop, but instead you can find a guitar solo or "ad-libbing" of lyrics or synthesizers. The interesting thing about SCP is that their music closely resembles Trance but still doesn't stray away from that authentic Eurobeat sound

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Super_eurobeat_160.jpg

 

The music sub-genre Eurobeat is closely related to Hi-NRG and disco. It is also very closely related to the Japanese Para Para dance culture

 

Eurobeat, as the name implies, is a music genre from Europe. Stemming from Italo Disco, it is generally held to have originated in Italy in the late '70s and early '80s. Despite being European in origin, its main market has always been Japan, where its synthetic and emotionally upbeat stylings are popular. Even though many Europeans and Americans have heard Eurodance, Eurobeat is still a largely unknown genre in Europe where other types of music are dominant.

 

Although highly popular in Japan, Eurobeat has become more and more popular in the Western world in the past few years. The anime Initial D, based on the manga by Shuichi Shigeno, uses Eurobeat music regularly in its episodes during racing scenes between the characters, and because of this it has come to the attention of some anime fans outside Japan.

 

Eurobeat's sound is its main link to its italo disco origins, where it was just one of many different experiments in pure-electronic dance. There are certain synth instruments that recur across the entire genre: a sequenced octave bass, distinctive brass and harp sounds, and tight, predictable precussion in the background. These sounds are layered with vocals and natural instruments(guitar and piano are common) into complex, ever-shifting melodies that, at their best, burst with energy.

 

Eurobeat genre

Eurobeat can create a number of different genres, while still keeping its own originality intact. In the late 1970s and early 1980s there were many new genres emerging from the creation of electronic music. Disco was the beginning of a whole new era in music, with popular artists such as George Clinton and Earth, Wind & Fire. However when disco music quickly became unpopular in North America, it remained in the limelight in Europe.

 

While modern music is often recognized by its lyrics, Eurobeat is recognized not primarilly by its lyrics, but by its synthesized chorus known as the Sabi (short for Sabishigaru, not to be mistaken for the Japanese Wabi-sabi), which means "to remember someone or something" in Japanese. This of course refers to the generally acknowledged fact that you mostly remember the Sabi as opposed to the stanzas of the Eurobeat song. This broad genre can create a great number of different "sub-genres" within it because of this combination of harmony and rhythm. Sometimes it can still sound like the old disco music we know, sometimes it can be very "fast and happy" like Happy Hardcore or Speed Music, and occasionally it even uses guitars as a method of Saiba.

 

One peculiar thing about Eurobeat is the fact that each artist is often credited with a variety of different aliases (See "Popular Eurobeat Artists" below for details). Artists usually adopt different stage names according to the mood of each song, or depending on who wrote their lyrics. For instance, Ennio Zanini has stated on the SCP Music website that he goes by the name of "Fastway" on songs which are more upbeat and sprinkled with high-pitched female backing vocals, and goes by "Dusty" on his more "serious" tracks. Also a popular theory is that Eurobeat artists such as Clara Moroni and Giancarlo Pasquini manufacture the same acts under many different names in order to "compete with themselves". (Compare to legendary House producer Thomas Bangalter, who is infamous for the same practice).

 

Eurobeat also has notoriety for name recognition, lifting titles from popular songs and using them as the names of Eurobeat tracks. Examples are "Like a Virgin", "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", and "Station to Station." The Eurobeat songs that reuse song titles typically have nothing to do with the song it lifted its title from (i.e., not a cover).

 

The Eurobeat formula

Like most musical genres, (modern) Eurobeat has a fairly specific formula to it:

 

intro → riff → a melo → b melo → sabi → riff → outro

 

The intro is the introduction into the song, the riff is the musical part without voices. The a melo, or a-melody is the first verse in the song, the b melo (b-melody) is the bridge of the song, and the sabi is the chorus of the song. The outro is the ending. There will also be a c melo (the second a melo) after the first sabi, as well as another a/b melo variant after the second sabi.

 

Eurobeat is notorious for its complex rhythm, always attempting to throw the listener in another direction, but the flow is usually a one way ticket. After the synth, the song usually repeats the verse, bridge, and chorus (although with different lyrics most the time) and then goes into a "breakdown" where there can be a variety of new parts to the song including a guitar solo, the dropping and adding of percussion, or a plain instrumental version of the track. Typically though, this only encompasses the verse and bridge; the chorus is usually sung once again, and then the synth and extro play. The extro can either be the synth played again, or something reminiscent of the intro. Another thing to note is that the intro is somewhat like an instrumental rendition of the verse, bridge, and chorus, while the synth is a lot like a synthesized version of the chorus. They don't have to sound completely similar, but they do in fact fit on top of each other most of the time.

 

There's a particular style of formula when it comes to the different "labels" of the Eurobeat world:

 

A Beat C: Typically follows the formula above, rarely straying away from a different type. This label is considered by the majority of the Eurobeat world to be the most "mainstream" label, taking a little bit of everything and adding it to their own style. They also have the largest amount of singers, which gives them variety.

 

Boom Boom Beat: This label can resemble house music very much if you listen closely. They typically use the formula of adding a new section of percussion, bass, and synth after every 4th measure. After the last synth (sometimes after the chorus is goes straight to the following) there is typically a percussion drop until there are only 4 measures of a "kick" or "hat" left. As with Vibration, BBB can be somewhat unpredictable, but they don't tend to stray away from this formula.

 

Delta: Usually drops percussion during the breakdown while the singer sings the first verse and bridge again. Synths are typically very "harsh"-sounding, and bass is relatively low depending on the producer of each track.

 

Hi-NRG Attack: As with Delta, percussion usually drops during the breakdown. The thing with this label is that it's known for its relatively "quirky" lyrics and rhythm. Synths are known to be very wild, sometimes playing a different note at every 1/4 beat.

 

Time: The interesting thing about Time is that most of the label's music includes a very long Intro and typically ends with a fade-out of the synth instead of an extro (which most labels don't do too often). To many, their synth can either be very intense, or can be a rather subtle, somewhat duplicated synth from previous songs.

 

Vibration: This label can surprise you. Sometimes they'll put in a simple percussion drop during the breakdown, and sometimes there is a very intense guitar solo or even new lyrics. Very unpredictable.

 

SCP Music: SCP almost always follows A Beat C's formula. Rarely is there ever a percussion drop, but instead you can find a guitar solo or "ad-libbing" of lyrics or synthesizers. The interesting thing about SCP is that their music closely resembles Trance but still doesn't stray away from that authentic Eurobeat sound

 

Wikipaedia again Tiger...? :lol: :lol:

 

Yeah, I'd go along with a fair bit of that - definitely more linked to Hi-NRG Disco than anything else. Totally different to Dance, House or Techno genres....

but Dance is the genre, House, Techno, Eurobeat, Eurodance, etc... are subgenres. That's what you don't seem to get.

but Dance is the genre, House, Techno, Eurobeat, Eurodance, etc... are subgenres. That's what you don't seem to get.

 

 

id agree with that tbh... just like 'pop' is more then just the manufactured nursery rhymes that people call 'pop' today.

 

id put europop here in the dance section as it is clearly heavily dance orientated.

id agree with that tbh... just like 'pop' is more then just the manufactured nursery rhymes that people call 'pop' today.

 

id put europop here in the dance section as it is clearly heavily dance orientated.

 

Everything is debateable, but imo as long as its dance influenced it should be posted here.

Edited July 15, 200619 yr by skizzo

id agree with that tbh... just like 'pop' is more then just the manufactured nursery rhymes that people call 'pop' today.

 

id put europop here in the dance section as it is clearly heavily dance orientated.

 

It's heavily disco oriented, but that's a different thing entirely. Tigerboy's rather helpful timeline for Eurobeat/Eurodance and it's Japanese/Hi NRG origins illustrates this... It actually predates the DJ-inspired Dance/Rave culture revolution of the late-80s, so on this level it has nothing in common with what the Chicago, New York and Detroit Rave DJs were doing which directly led to the Dance/House/Techno revolution and the '89 "Summer of Love" which is where is really all kicked off...

It had nothing to do with its birth but it certainly is a part of dance nowadays because of its electronic sound and fast 4x4 beat that defines the huge dance genre and its various subgenres. The rave culture you're talking about is a subgenre of dance. Eurobeat isnt a part of Rave it has nothing to do with it, but its a part of Dance and what defines it, and it'll always be a part of it. As far as i'm concerned this is "dance" forum and not "rave" forum or something like that.

Edited July 16, 200619 yr by skizzo

It had nothing to do with its birth but it certainly is a part of dance nowadays because of its electronic sound and fast 4x4 beat that defines the huge dance genre and its various subgenres. The rave culture you're talking about is a subgenre of dance. Eurobeat isnt a part of Rave it has nothing to do with it, but its a part of Dance and what defines it, and it'll always be a part of it. As far as i'm concerned this is "dance" forum and not "rave" forum or something like that.

 

And just when was the term 'dance' actually used as a genre pre-late 80s.....? I don't remember it ever being used until the sounds of Detroit, Chicago, NY, etc were coming out and DJs like Carl Cox and Derrick May were coming to prominence....

And just when was the term 'dance' actually used as a genre pre-late 80s.....? I don't remember it ever being used until the sounds of Detroit, Chicago, NY, etc were coming out and DJs like Carl Cox and Derrick May were coming to prominence....

 

It wasnt but then Disco doesnt exist anymore and acts like Sash and Culture Beat are very different to what definited Disco in the 70s. So dance does define them appropriately nowadays.

It wasnt but then Disco doesnt exist anymore and acts like Sash and Culture Beat are very different to what definited Disco in the 70s. So dance does define them appropriately nowadays.

 

Only because bullsh!tting journalists and record companies say so... Look at how all these tripey Nu Metal bands are being re-branded as "Emo" because Nu Metal is no longer 'cool' (and the fact that no real Metal fan ever accepted stuff like Papa Roach and Linkin Park as even being in the same league as Iron Maiden or Slayer). Same old rubbish, different genre. The term "Eurobeat" aint cool, the term "Disco" aint cool, so they're trying to palm it off as Dance, because Dance has (well, had in its best phase in the late 80s and early/mid '90s...) a bit of "street-cred" and a sense of danger and rebellion about it. All nice earners for the record companies....

 

Culture Beat should never be defined as Dance, AND THEY NEVER WERE!!! DONT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLE FACT??? It's only these idiot "journalists" from nowadays who peddle some sort of revisionist agenda and who dont have fukkin clue what constitutes real Dance Music that do...

 

Nobody from the Dance Music press in the 90s would ever have done an article on them, because back then, people actually knew better, they knew the difference between a Pop Act an a Dance Act; acts like 2 Unlimited and Culture Beat were covered by the likes of "Smash Hits", not by any serious Dance Music publication.... Sash could maybe be described as Dance, at a push, but only of the most watered down, drippy and commercial variety.....

id agree with that tbh... just like 'pop' is more then just the manufactured nursery rhymes that people call 'pop' today.

 

id put europop here in the dance section as it is clearly heavily dance orientated.

 

Yeah, but you admit yourself that you are a late-comer to the scene, and therefore you dont really know all the facts or the history of it.... You slag people off for not understanding the phenomenon that was The Beatles, so trust me when I say that this Eurobeat stuff has fukk all to do with the Dance/Rave scene.....

 

It's heavily disco oriented, but that's a different thing entirely. Tigerboy's rather helpful timeline for Eurobeat/Eurodance and it's Japanese/Hi NRG origins illustrates this... It actually predates the DJ-inspired Dance/Rave culture revolution of the late-80s, so on this level it has nothing in common with what the Chicago, New York and Detroit Rave DJs were doing which directly led to the Dance/House/Techno revolution and the '89 "Summer of Love" which is where is really all kicked off...

 

 

..... still dance though as a genre.

..... still dance though as a genre.

 

NO!! Dance was never used at this time as a term until the underground sounds of the Rave scene started coming to the fore in the late 80s.....

 

Read my lips - There never was a 'Dance' genre as such until this very important thing happened in the late 80s....

 

Now, can we please stop with all the revisionism.....?

Well let's agree to disagree. We think Dance and Rave are different. Eurobeat isnt a part of rave but is of dance imo. Dance is the genre that includes them all.

 

Here we think they do belong in dance, so that's where they'll remain. If there was a forum for Eurobeat, Rave, Eurodance, Trance, House, Garage, Chill-Out, ect, we could be specific and put them into the appropriate forum, but there isnt, and the Dance forum is the forum that includes them all.

Edited July 16, 200619 yr by skizzo

Well let's agree to disagree. We think Dance and Rave are different. Eurobeat isnt a part of rave but is of dance imo. Dance is the genre that includes them all.

 

Here we think they do belong in dance, so that's where they'll remain.

 

Yeah, but you're clearly wrong and you dont understand history... You dont seem to understand the simple fact that there was no 'Dance' genre until the late 80s when the Rave Culture thing got going. 'Dance' music came out of the Raves (the Raves being the often illegal events that Dance music was primarily played at...) You just cant retrospectively include things that were around before (and Tigerboy's timeline establishes Eurobeat's existence before the late-80s in the Hi-NRG scene as was...)....

 

Once again: If there was a forum for Eurobeat, Rave, Eurodance, Trance, House, Garage, Chill-Out, ect, we could be specific and put them into the appropriate forum, but there isnt, and the Dance forum is the forum that includes them all.

and you dont seem to realise that acts like Culture Beat and Sash came way after the genre "Dance" appeared. Since then it has always been considered dance and it'll always be dance. History doesnt always definite what a genre a dance song or act come from. Eurodance is DANCE from Europe.

You may not like the way things have turned out but that's the way things are definited nowadays and you just have to deal with it really. I'm just getting tired of discussing this issue. I'm out

Edited July 16, 200619 yr by skizzo