Sorry if I seem a bit behind the times on this, and if there is already another thread on it somewhere, but I only got round to watching "The End" last night, and I really have to register my total disappointment with a show that promised so much, delivered on most of it, but then utterly failed to deliver the most important thing of all - a decent ending which was dramatically satisfying....

 

...Indeed, what a thorough damp squib it was, I was so looking forward to it as well... I loved season 1-3, brilliant telly, some of the best in years; 4 and 5, well, not as good, but still plenty of moments and still lots of ideas coming in.. This season, really I have to wonder what it was they were thinking with that pretty awful ending.. I had thought that when Juliet exploded the bomb she'd set off some kind of alternate universe and something pretty substantial was gonna happen to make the universes collide (which is where Desmond would've come in) and everything was gonna go SPLAT!!! Instead, we get bloody Jack-as-bloody-Jesus almost with this ridiculous fantasy world to usher him off to "heaven" presumably, how very fukkin' "Catholic" <_< . Even Total Badass Locke/The Beast got a pretty ignominious ending... So, was Season 6, effectively a "dream" then, a bit like that "twist" in Dallas where Pam dreamt Bobby Ewing was dead for an entire season... Indeed pretty $h!te, and it would seem to me that in terms of continuity and narrative it totally conflicts with a lot of the stuff that went on in seasons 1-5. I still have the whole run on hard-drive and DVDr so I'm gonna watch the whole thing from the start again to see if seasons 5 and 6 in particular hold any water at all; it seems to me after 6 years of loyal viewing for Abrams, Lieber and Lindelof to come away with an ending like this is an insult to the fans of the show who stuck with it...

 

It kind of makes me a bit concerned over how Abrams is gonna progress with Fringe... Again, the first two seasons have been fantastic, but, if he's gonna p*ssy out on the ending of Fringe to the extent he did with Lost, I dunno if I should bother watching any more....

You're not alone in thinking this. Some loved it but a large number were disappointed.

 

 

I guess sometimes the journey is better than the arrival

I disagree, although I did think the ending of the alternate universe arc was a bit w***, but that was only one series and isnt the definitive ending of the show. The show always had a strong religious undertone and themes so it actually makes sense that religion was part of the ending. I stand by my opinon that this is the greatest tv show ever.

 

and I just finished rewatching season 1, and it's interesting watching it knowing how it ends, why they are there, what the show is about etc.

I disagree, although I did think the ending of the alternate universe arc was a bit w***, but that was only one series and isnt the definitive ending of the show.

 

Really, seems like it to me Chris.... Sorry dude, this a total slap in the face to me and the millions of people who watched the show for six years.. It rather taints the the show as a whole now, and suggests to me that they never had any real clue how to end things properly and just came up with this "will this do?" ending.. Well, er, no, Messrs, Abrams, Lindelof and Lieber, it will NOT do frankly...

 

Yes, indeed there were religious undertones, but they were of a much darker, more malevolent nature. If you look at how Battlestar Galactica ended, that was far more logical and dramatically satisfying than this cop-out. Just why the fukk was Jack considered the be-all, end-all of the show anyway...? Why should the ending be PURELY about him FFS? Nahh, it's rubbish mate, there were so many things going on in the show overall, to end it on this absolute whimper is just lame....

I guess sometimes the journey is better than the arrival

 

In a nutshell, I think this is what's happened...

well i felt it was much more an end of a saga that was the ending.

 

I feel that over Lost is about jacob vs mib, and how they go about finding the 'next jacob', which is why they were on the island, the show overall was about unveiling this, i liked that we only really knew what was really happening at the pace of the characters, being thrown off a lot with things like the others and dhama, where as in the end the others and dhama were part of the manipulation of jacob and mib anyway.

 

I dont know if they had it all from the start or not, but i know that before it begun, when they were coming up with the show, Abrams and Lindelof actually made a "bible" for the show which went over the majot mythological ideas and plot points of the show for "an ideal four or five seasons", i like to think they may of had the whole Jacob and MiB arc in some form (maybe not the final form) from the start but didnt want to unveil it so fast, wanted to pace it as slow as they did, Abrams is a master of mystery.

 

Lost was about why they were there, who was going to take over Jacob, and the major themes of life and death and black and white, that is what the show as about, which is why the alternate universe ending doesnt actually matter in the long running of the show.

well i felt it was much more an end of a saga that was the ending.

 

I feel that over Lost is about jacob vs mib, and how they go about finding the 'next jacob', which is why they were on the island, the show overall was about unveiling this, i liked that we only really knew what was really happening at the pace of the characters, being thrown off a lot with things like the others and dhama, where as in the end the others and dhama were part of the manipulation of jacob and mib anyway.

 

I dont know if they had it all from the start or not, but i know that before it begun, when they were coming up with the show, Abrams and Lindelof actually made a "bible" for the show which went over the majot mythological ideas and plot points of the show for "an ideal four or five seasons", i like to think they may of had the whole Jacob and MiB arc in some form (maybe not the final form) from the start but didnt want to unveil it so fast, wanted to pace it as slow as they did, Abrams is a master of mystery.

 

Lost was about why they were there, who was going to take over Jacob, and the major themes of life and death and black and white, that is what the show as about, which is why the alternate universe ending doesnt actually matter in the long running of the show.

 

It just seems to me that the whole sixth season is about creating this "alternate" universe purely for Jack and him "letting go" of life and reality and "passing on" into the afterlife and all the other characters in the end were just there to act as a chorus hailing him as the massively important hero and saviour (even Hurley, even though he was the TRUE heir to Jacob surely), as if HE was the most important thing about the whole show as opposed to this age-old "good and evil" battle between Jacob and MiB (Jesus, just way to not even bother giving the guy a name FFS), which seemed dealt with with an indecent haste on the mountain, Jack Vs Locke didn't take up much time did it, certainly nowhere near as much time as Jack's Massive Ego Stroke To Send Him Off..

 

No, it was crap.. Everyone getting all "lovey dovey".. JESUS, it was just sickening, twee, cliched, overly-sentimental American rubbish in the end and not anything like what seasons 2-5 actually hinted it would be at the end... Confounding expectations is one thing, but expectations can be confounded in a good way, or a bad way, this was a very BAD way....

 

 

but isnt Jack the hero as he is the one who sacrificed his life putting the cork back into the island. i agree the Jack vs MiB fight was a bit short, they could of livened it up a bit like this:

 

but isnt Jack the hero as he is the one who sacrificed his life putting the cork back into the island. i agree the Jack vs MiB fight was a bit short, they could of livened it up a bit like this:

 

 

He martyred himself, not the same thing as a hero as such, eschewing the help of others because clearly he was the only one who could save the day innit....? I mean, Desmond offered, but Jack just did his square-jawed "I'm the hero" thing and put the cork back in... Sorry, but Jack is a self-important dick who denied himself the love of his life to save a stoopid island, when Desmond could've done it and likely survived....

Well, we as the audience are postioned to see Jack as the "hero".

 

Did you watch the same Jack for six seasons as I did? It annoyed me a bit that he sacrificed himself when Desmond could of done it, and annoyed me a little bit more than he basically laid there in the source after he put the cork back in, when he could of easily jumped out. But it was in Jack's character to do that, it would of always been him, due to what he is like, like how we have seen him act since the first season, he as to be the hero, he has to save lives, it's just who he is.

Abrams had nothing to do with the show at all aside from the Pilot and the first few episodes. After that he literally did nothing. Of course they made stuff up as they went along, and they had to. I read an interview recently where when they came up with this idea of the hatch, they actually had no idea what would be down there for a long time.

 

Personally I loved the ending. I can see why people who loved the mythology (I did, but not to crazy, crazy lengths that some fans did..) didn't like the ending, but at the end of the day the show was about a group of characters who landed on this island, therefore the show was based around the characters at the end. I don't think i'd ever seen anyone who had guessed correctly that the Sideways was infact the afterlife. The whole Juliet thing, and re-setting time was just a clever sub-plot to make US think that that is what happened, when in reality it was just a huge red herring! Very good writing. An ending is always going to have people who like it, and people who hate it. I do believe that the writers were influenced a lot by the Sopranos ending and the backlash that recieved. I don't think at any time, but the writers want to leave an openly ambigious ending, that maybe perhaps would have been good, but it's just such a risky thing to do.

 

Jack was a character that did that we did to complete his transition from being adamant Locke was wrong, to being adamant that Locke was right. It was a 360 degree circle, and he did what he did because he believed in the island and he believed he HAD to die. It was his responsibility to sacrafice himself - after all, don't forget, how many people have died because of the choices Jack has made? LOTS. Jack frankly had nothing to live for. The island was the only good thing in his life.

 

And the afterlife thing was great. One thing I really hated was how Locke died. But for me, it gave great closure to his character. And I loved how he and Jack had settled all the beef between them. It was a nice happy ending for the characters, and one that was greatly appreciated. The whole story was about LOVE, and as they moved on to the next life, all the characters were with everyone they loved.

But it was in Jack's character to do that, it would of always been him, due to what he is like, like how we have seen him act since the first season, he as to be the hero, he has to save lives, it's just who he is.

 

Heroism does not equate to suicidal though Chris.... The true hero doesn't seek to just sacrifice himself, I mean how else could they save MORE people if they're all fatalistic and suicidal....? Self-sacrifice only comes to the hero when they are totally out of options (which Jack wasn't let's face it), for example, see the ending of Angel season 5, they sacrifice themselves because they HAVE TO, because there is literally no one else who can battle the Demonic hordes, Angel has one of the best series endings that I've ever seen, but I digress... The one who seeks to sacrifice themselves is a fool, not a hero.... I actually quite liked Jack when he started out, but then, he just went all self-pitying and self-sacrificial, and, oh good grief, just get over yourself man........ :rolleyes: Locke was by far the most interesting and believable character out of the whole lot anyway, let's face it.....

 

Rooney, it was long a theory of mine from the beginning that they were all actually dead and the "island" was in fact the transition to the afterlife, a couple of things upset that assumption along the way, so then you thought "ahhh, okay, it's not that obvious at all, more weird and malevolent stuff is going on, you've got The Others, Dharma, Charles Widmore, etc", but then, hey, guess what, the series ends with Jack's transition into the afterlife only it's the "alternate" universe and not the island... Gee, what a shocker, it pretty much WAS what I thought all along only with a few minor differences..... :rolleyes: I was into the mythology, but, sorry, holding up a mouldy, hoary cliched ending and calling that the "twist" is really pretty insulting to me as a fan of the show tbh, I couldn't quite believe what I was watching, I thought, "fukk, is that what I waited six years for?"... I watched this series from beginning to end, and stuck with it even though mates of mine were saying "what you watching that sh"te for", clearly they didn't understand I thought, but sh!t, turns out they were right.. THAT absolutely horrendous ending has forever tainted what was, I thought, some of the best TV of the past decade....

I don't think i'd ever seen anyone who had guessed correctly that the Sideways was infact the afterlife.

Probably because that idea is now so cliched and so overdone that it would've seemed way to obvious for a show like Lost not to have come up with something more intelligent, thought provoking and original

Heroism does not equate to suicidal though Chris.... The true hero doesn't seek to just sacrifice himself, I mean how else could they save MORE people if they're all fatalistic and suicidal....? Self-sacrifice only comes to the hero when they are totally out of options (which Jack wasn't let's face it), for example, see the ending of Angel season 5, they sacrifice themselves because they HAVE TO, because there is literally no one else who can battle the Demonic hordes, Angel has one of the best series endings that I've ever seen, but I digress... The one who seeks to sacrifice themselves is a fool, not a hero.... I actually quite liked Jack when he started out, but then, he just went all self-pitying and self-sacrificial, and, oh good grief, just get over yourself man........ :rolleyes: Locke was by far the most interesting and believable character out of the whole lot anyway, let's face it.....

 

yes but his heroism ends with the island, he had to be the one who saved the island, once he did that, it was all over, kate, sawyer, etc had managed to get to the plane, he had nothing else to save apart from the island, the whole saga had ended, he died with it, as rooney put it, the island was all he had. and tbh it wouldnt of been far more anti-climatic if desmond turned the island back on.

I don't ever believe for one minute that the writers had the idea that the island was purgatory, purely because they'd get slated for it, and righly so, as it's a huge copout. The ending of LOST was that Jack saved the island, and died. Then the sideways story is really just for the audiences purpose, to know that these characters all needed each other and they found each other once they realised they'd died.

 

Of course it's not to everyones taste, but I was very pleased with the ending mainly as it offered CLOSURE on all the characters. For 6 years i'd invested emotionally into these characters and I was pleased that they all ended up having a happy ending. Even a tragic character like John Locke, you know, once he'd died he'd come to realise that maybe he wasn't as special as he thought he was, and he had learned to forgive Ben for murdering him through jealously. It was a very fitting ending imo. My only grip is that they perhaps left the whole MiB and Jacob thing too late to introduce. But I much preferred the mystery of Jacob, as to Jacob and MiB actually being on screen...

Rooney, it was long a theory of mine from the beginning that they were all actually dead and the "island" was in fact the transition to the afterlife, a couple of things upset that assumption along the way, so then you thought "ahhh, okay, it's not that obvious at all, more weird and malevolent stuff is going on, you've got The Others, Dharma, Charles Widmore, etc", but then, hey, guess what, the series ends with Jack's transition into the afterlife only it's the "alternate" universe and not the island... Gee, what a shocker, it pretty much WAS what I thought all along only with a few minor differences..... :rolleyes: I was into the mythology, but, sorry, holding up a mouldy, hoary cliched ending and calling that the "twist" is really pretty insulting to me as a fan of the show tbh, I couldn't quite believe what I was watching, I thought, "fukk, is that what I waited six years for?"... I watched this series from beginning to end, and stuck with it even though mates of mine were saying "what you watching that sh"te for", clearly they didn't understand I thought, but sh!t, turns out they were right.. THAT absolutely horrendous ending has forever tainted what was, I thought, some of the best TV of the past decade....

 

you watched a tv show for 6 years just for the final episode?

Probably because that idea is now so cliched and so overdone that it would've seemed way to obvious for a show like Lost not to have come up with something more intelligent, thought provoking and original

 

EXACTLY..... Lost confounded my expectations alright... I expected an intelligent, thought provoking and interesting ending to what had been up to that point an intelligent, interesting and thought provoking series, what I got instead was hackneyed drivel of the worst kind.... It's NOT what I expected from a show which had been gripping and challenging - they took the easy way out, and it was a crock, simple as.... The phrase "Emperor's New Clothes" springs to mind....

 

I don't ever believe for one minute that the writers had the idea that the island was purgatory, purely because they'd get slated for it, and righly so, as it's a huge copout.

 

And the ending they gave us isn't a cop-out...? And we have that dreaded "C-word" again, CLOSURE... God I hate that word, so over-used and such a cliche.... I imagine in the DVD extras the producers will use that "C-word" over and over again to justify their cacky ending, which simply does not satisfy dramatically given the interesting directions that the show HAD been going off in over the course of the six seasons and all the good ideas and concepts that had been getting inserted into the show.....

 

I'll tell what I most liked about this show Rooney, the fact that it was the one mainstream American show that DIDN'T just pander to its audience and offer easy, trite and spoon-fed explanations for things that were going on.. And how does it end..? Errr, with an easy, trite and spoon-fed explanation.... "Ever had the feeling you've been cheated?" as Johnny Rotten once said. Well, er, yes as it happens, I do.... Abrams seriously needs to learn a thing or two about conclusions, perhaps he should talk to J Micheal Straczinski (Babylon 5), Ron D Moore (Battlestar Galactica) or Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse) about how to end things properly before Fringe collapses into a pile of cack and disappoints MORE fans....

you watched a tv show for 6 years just for the final episode?

 

You took me too literally Chris.... But obviously when you start to, say, read a book, you just MIGHT be interested in how it's all going to conclude dont you think....? The golden rule of writing is that you have to have your ending in mind....

And the ending they gave us isn't a cop-out...? And we have that dreaded "C-word" again, CLOSURE... God I hate that word, so over-used and such a cliche.... I imagine in the DVD extras the producers will use that "C-word" over and over again to justify their cacky ending, which simply does not satisfy dramatically given the interesting directions that the show HAD been going off in over the course of the six seasons and all the good ideas and concepts that had been getting inserted into the show.....

 

I'll tell what I most liked about this show Rooney, the fact that it was the one mainstream American show that DIDN'T just pander to its audience and offer easy, trite and spoon-fed explanations for things that were going on.. And how does it end..? Errr, with an easy, trite and spoon-fed explanation.... "Ever had the feeling you've been cheated?" as Johnny Rotten once said. Well, er, yes as it happens, I do.... Abrams seriously needs to learn a thing or two about conclusions, perhaps he should talk to J Micheal Straczinski (Babylon 5), Ron D Moore (Battlestar Galactica) or Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse) about how to end things properly before Fringe collapses into a pile of cack and disappoints MORE fans....

 

Well how else could they have ended it? I for one didn't want a sad ending. Until the final episode I thought the Sideways land was the alternate universe, and I fully believed that Desmond would make the two words collide and then only one timeline would survive - the ALT timeline. In Happily Ever After when Desmond 'wakes up' he wants to wake up all of the other Losties. If this WAS an alternate universe, you've got to think 'hang on a second...'. For all the people that have died, the ALT versions of themselves are just going to try and get back to how things were before - which is pretty f***ing pointless if you ask me!

 

I don't feel cheated at all. It's simple - some people like the ending, some people hate it. You can never win with TV shows, as there's always going to be oppositions. Personally I was extremely satisfied with the way the show ended. YES it did have huge religious tones, but the show has the whole way through so you can't really have a go with the creators when from EPISODE ONE there's been huge religious background to the story.

 

LOST was a mainstream show as well. Buffy, Angel, Battlestar Galactica...yes maybe they did have better endings, but they were on smaller networks and had smaller audiences. I'm not using it as an excuse, but it needs to be looked at in perspective.

 

Abrams had NOTHING to do with LOST after the Pilot. He served as an executive producer, but he had no input in the creative process at all. The same goes for Fringe as well, he really has nothing to do with it aswell. He's more tied up with The Untouchables for NBC...