Not sure if Aloe Blacc's 'I Need a Dollar' was OA/OS - they'd been playing it on the radio since at least January 2011 - and the album has been available for months; so sales were trickling - until finally R1 added it to the playlist.

 

Snoop Dogg, LMFAO and Pitbull are all perfect examples though of OA/OS working. It's obviously just hit and miss though, as the likes of Chipmunk, Jodie Connor, Beyonce and The Saturdays all probably did worse than they would've had it been built up for a few weeks - but that's what the music business is all about - taking risks.

 

 

That doesn't surprise me as it was released in the US over a year ago now, but the point remains that album tracks are essentially OA/OS, as soon as promotion starts for them people can buy them as they hear and see them, just look at 'Last Friday Night', the video is released and as soon as people are aware of it they can buy it and it's now on the verge of going top 10!

 

The acts you mentioned it all boils down to my point about promotion and marketing. Taking The Saturdays, it was released without any appearances or video and IIRC their fans were moaning that their management were on holiday. 'Notorious' hasn't performed poorly because of OA/OS, it's performed poorly because it's been handled so utterly terrible. It's not like their songs can't perform without being held back, just look at the longevity both 'Ego' and 'Higher' have had recently. As for Jodie Connor, I wasn't even aware she'd released a second single! :lol: But again it proves my point, I saw the video for her terrible first single loads, but it performed poorly (14-30-48-Out - Ouch!) so any follow-up would need a fantastic campaign as radio and TV are surely going to be far more skeptical about playlisting something following up a hit like that.

It tends to work in favour towards the not as established acts or medicore popular acts. Artists such as Britney/Lady Gaga/The Saturdays usually suffer from it.

But Lady GaGa is in the top few sellers of the year, broke all kinds of records and has spent 18 weeks top 40. 'Notorious' hasn't sold greatly so far but it's set to climb back into the top 20 this week. It will therefore be at a higher position in its 4th week than their previous two lead singles and will probably stick around for a lot longer than they did. A failure? Britney was just handled terribly. As I said, you can't expect something to sell on name alone. People have to be aware of something before they will buy it.

But Lady GaGa is in the top few sellers of the year, broke all kinds of records and has spent 18 weeks top 40. 'Notorious' hasn't sold greatly so far but it's set to climb back into the top 20 this week. It will therefore be at a higher position in its 4th week than their previous two lead singles and will probably stick around for a lot longer than they did. A failure? Britney was just handled terribly. As I said, you can't expect something to sell on name alone. People have to be aware of something before they will buy it.

 

It also seems that over hyped songs that get released due to the On Air/On Sale thing tend to suffer from a great massive drop as opposed to songs debuting low and then rising high.

Yeah, that's true. I don't think Run the World fits into the current chart climate. It's too urban

 

Is that even possible in the singles chart, nowadays? :w00t:

Is that even possible in the singles chart, nowadays? :w00t:

 

Yes, it is. The vast majority of the urban songs in the chart are urban genres mixed with dance/pop. When actual proper hip-hop songs come along they don't do as well (see Black And Yellow for example - it was absolutely massive in the USA but only got to #5 here and fell pretty quickly)

That doesn't surprise me as it was released in the US over a year ago now, but the point remains that album tracks are essentially OA/OS, as soon as promotion starts for them people can buy them as they hear and see them, just look at 'Last Friday Night', the video is released and as soon as people are aware of it they can buy it and it's now on the verge of going top 10!

 

The acts you mentioned it all boils down to my point about promotion and marketing. Taking The Saturdays, it was released without any appearances or video and IIRC their fans were moaning that their management were on holiday. 'Notorious' hasn't performed poorly because of OA/OS, it's performed poorly because it's been handled so utterly terrible. It's not like their songs can't perform without being held back, just look at the longevity both 'Ego' and 'Higher' have had recently. As for Jodie Connor, I wasn't even aware she'd released a second single! :lol: But again it proves my point, I saw the video for her terrible first single loads, but it performed poorly (14-30-48-Out - Ouch!) so any follow-up would need a fantastic campaign as radio and TV are surely going to be far more skeptical about playlisting something following up a hit like that.

 

That's nonsense @ The Saturdays - the video was released straight away and they performed on So You Think You Can Dance I think the day before it was released.

I think OA/OS means that it's usually a new release?

 

Surely an album track that climbs due to increasing airplay and video isn't an OA/OS because it was on sale BEFORE the airplay started/increased.

How is it a bad tactic? The only way it can ever be bad is if it's not marketed correctly. Has On air on sale been bad for any of the following five songs?

 

Snoop Dogg & David Guetta 'Sweat'

Pitbull et al 'Give Me Everything'

LMFAO 'Party Rock Anthem'

Aloe Blacc 'I Need a Dollar'

Noah & The Whale 'L.I.F.E.G.O.E.S.O.N.'

 

Was it bad in 2008 for the likes of Ne-Yo 'Closer' or Madonna '4 Minutes?' Does it hurt post album singles such as 'Someone Like You', 'The Lazy Song', 'Just Can't Get Enough', 'All of the Lights' to be available as soon as they're promoted.

 

The reason why the songs that have fallen foul of it have done is because of how they've been badly marketed. You can't just expect to release a song and it sell. The point of on air on sale is that you can buy songs as you hear them, it's no good releasing them but they not going to radio or having a video as people aren't going to be aware of them. It's now only being challenged because a few hits have come which haven't used the method. I think it was about three weeks ago where only one song of the top 10 was a held back release, which was 'On the Floor'. OA/OS was working then....

 

It is fair to say there have been some OAOS singles that HAVE done well, but really my point would be is that it is very unlikely that they will wind up selling considerably *more* copies than they would have done if held back. What is the difference between selling say 20,000 copies a week over four weeks hovering at number 8, than selling 80,000 copies in one week? A number one hit.

 

It is fair to say there have been some OAOS singles that HAVE done well, but really my point would be is that it is very unlikely that they will wind up selling considerably *more* copies than they would have done if held back. What is the difference between selling say 20,000 copies a week over four weeks hovering at number 8, than selling 80,000 copies in one week? A number one hit.

 

You can't prove either way if it improves the sales of any one particular song. If used properly OA/OS should always produce higher sales.

I think OA/OS means that it's usually a new release?

 

Surely an album track that climbs due to increasing airplay and video isn't an OA/OS because it was on sale BEFORE the airplay started/increased.

Well yes, but it's the same principle. OA/OS basically means it's released as its promotion begins, so that as so as you can hear it (on air) you can buy it (on sale). The principle is exactly the same for singles released after the album, as soon as you begin to hear them as promotion begins, you can buy them.

 

That's nonsense @ The Saturdays - the video was released straight away and they performed on So You Think You Can Dance I think the day before it was released.

 

I don't really pay any attention to them, I'm only going on what their fans have been moaning about on here. Either way, it's back in the top 20 this week.

It is fair to say there have been some OAOS singles that HAVE done well, but really my point would be is that it is very unlikely that they will wind up selling considerably *more* copies than they would have done if held back. What is the difference between selling say 20,000 copies a week over four weeks hovering at number 8, than selling 80,000 copies in one week? A number one hit.

 

A very oversimplified way of looking at things.. just because a record sells 20K/week for four weeks doesn't mean all of those 80000 buyers would necessarily buy in the first week with a delayed release strategy. Plus number 1 records are not everything - "Love The Way You Lie" was the biggest selling single of 2010 and didn't even get to number 1 (mainly because a load of front-loaded single releases blocked it) - sales are more important at the end of the day.

It is fair to say there have been some OAOS singles that HAVE done well, but really my point would be is that it is very unlikely that they will wind up selling considerably *more* copies than they would have done if held back. What is the difference between selling say 20,000 copies a week over four weeks hovering at number 8, than selling 80,000 copies in one week? A number one hit.

 

At 20k/wk that'd only get you T15 nowadays - you normally need 30k+ for #8 - I get your point, though. :)

Yes, it is. The vast majority of the urban songs in the chart are urban genres mixed with dance/pop. When actual proper hip-hop songs come along they don't do as well (see Black And Yellow for example - it was absolutely massive in the USA but only got to #5 here and fell pretty quickly)

Black and Yellow WAS urban mixed with electropop. It was produced by Stargate and pretty poppy. It wasn't exactly the sort of thing you'd find on Straight Outta Compton...

About album tracks, another thing is that most of them DO have their radio premiere within days of their release. Especially the big albums. I guarantee you that all of Lady Gaga's album has been played somewhere on the radio, for example. Maybe smaller local radio stations or whatever, but still.

 

You and I and Americano have already been played on Radio 1. And some other songs probably have (but I'm not listening to Radio 1 24/7, so I'm not sure).

Black and Yellow WAS urban mixed with electropop. It was produced by Stargate and pretty poppy. It wasn't exactly the sort of thing you'd find on Straight Outta Compton...

 

Okay, maybe I was exaggerating a bit, but it's still far less pop than most of the other 'urban' music in the charts and didn't do as well as a result.

I don't mind On Air/On Sale, I just think it's early days. Radios have got to come to terms with that they can't drop singles out of their playlists just because they're dropping down the chart as a result of on air/on sale, and labels/managers have got to come to terms with that they can't leave the promo 4-5 weeks post-release.

Yes, I agree. The reason why the likes of Alexandra Stan and Aloe Blacc have had no problems with on air, on sale is that they've essentially followed a normal curve of a post-album release of an individual song in which they had little interest at first and thus increased every week concurrently with their airplay and promotion increasing. For the likes of The Saturdays they're following a completely different model where they peak/enter highly on their first week and then bomb down before stabalising - which has been part of their problem as it peaked in its first week on radio and then has been dropping the last two weeks!

 

What needs to happen is that radio needs to see out a song for at least a month, the same way they would if it was a held back release AND then think about dropping it from their playlists, not seeing it drop 8-21 and then immediately thinking it's a total flop. I mean, if it grows on radio but still drops 8-21-36-54 or something then yes it's done terribly and is probably a lost cause but if, like The Saturdays release, it drops 8-21-33 and then climbs back up then it's clearly got potential left in it.

 

The same happened with Beyoncé - it peaked on its second week at #40 on the airplay chart (the week after it had climbed to #11 in the charts) and then radio slowly dropped it, probably because they saw it dropping down the iTunes chart (shock horror!). Again, very silly - if they kept increasing their support it could easily have stabalised in the top 20 or 30 and then boosted into the top 10 when the video came and then that campaign would be looking a hell of a lot better.

I think the essential point here is that OA/OS isn't the reason some singles "flop", it's just become a scapegoat for fans who like to see high-peaking singles. Usually, an OA/OS flops either because it's been poorly promoted, had no radio/TV support or it's just not liked by the general public.

 

What OA/OS does do is opens up the market for singles that don't adheer to it. Example is an exception because he's done pretty damn well, but a song like "Dirtee Disco" could still conceivably get to #1 this year were it held back because #1 weekly sales are a little lower due to OA/OS. This hasn't really happened yet, the last song that could even be vaguely called a "non-#1" (I don't like the term, but it's just an example) is "We R Who We R", which went to #1 just before OA/OS came into full effect. Since then, pretty much all the #1s have either been climbers or big-selling songs like "On The Floor".

Well that didn't last long... :/

It certainly seems dead in the water now doesn't it?

 

An interesting test will be the next Saturdays single. It's a very similar record to the last one but completely different release strategy. We'll see which single ends up selling the most in the long run.

i think the summer has a big effect on release strategies though because all the kids are off school and so bands like the wanted, jls and cher lloyd gladly held back their release to take advantage of these conditions, the poor sales overall show that they might have went to no1 because of their fan bases but most have sold poorly and overall sales for the charts are very low atm which is telling.

 

this weeks no1 is an interesting one though, it def wouldn't have risen to no1 without being held back....

 

and by the way imo example would still have risen to no1 if released as a on air on sale single...why? because its a great pop song!!!