It is ridiculous not allowing drinks onboard planes, in that compressed atmosphere at 38,000 dehydration is a real risk on planes so people need refreshment, ok the stewardesses hand out drinks sometimes but giving drinks inflight to 400 people is a big job

 

No books, no laptops, no newspapers, no drinks etc allowed on board this is the kind of over reaction that the terrorists want

 

If someone is determined enough to blow up a plane they will do it, it is absurd to ban all these things and what is stopping people smuggling bombs in their clothing or up theirs arses ? damn slight more chance than in newspapers and books :rolleyes: what will the airlines and the government do next ??? force everyone to travel nude because there is a chance of a bomb in clothing ? :rolleyes:

 

The terrorists have won without blowing up a single plane

 

 

I completely agree with all measures taken ... better safe than sorry (oops 400 people are dead but they were well hydrated?) My sister was given free water once on the plane.

 

It is not feasible for secuirty to taste eveyones water - would you taste unknown liquids??

 

As for electrical equipment .. they don't think they are the bombs - but can be used as detonators. ... and surely everyone can live without their mobile phone for a couple of hours??

 

 

Do you think anyone at the airports etc wanted all this extra work and hassle - do you think they took these steps lightly??

 

I bet there are a few 9/11 families that wish such measures were in place a few years ago.

 

I completely agree with all measures taken ... better safe than sorry (oops 400 people are dead but they were well hydrated?) My sister was given free water once on the plane.

 

It is not feasible for secuirty to taste eveyones water - would you taste unknown liquids??

 

As for electrical equipment .. they don't think they are the bombs - but can be used as detonators. ... and surely everyone can live without their mobile phone for a couple of hours??

Do you think anyone at the airports etc wanted all this extra work and hassle - do you think they took these steps lightly??

 

I bet there are a few 9/11 families that wish such measures were in place a few years ago.

 

Nothing in aviation travel is 100% safe

 

Like I said short of making every passenger travel starkers and giving each and every one of them an anal probe before they get on board there is no 100% safe way of stopping people putting bombs on planes

 

Measures like the ones that have been bought in will SEVERELY damage the airline industry and result in less people travelling, I was planning to go to Melbourne for the GP next season despite my intense dislike of flying but there is no way I am sitting through a 27 hour flight with nothing to read, nothing to listen to and nothing to drink bar the odd handout from very busy stewardesses, when flying does not become a pleasure for the millions who like flying and instead becomes an ORDEAL there is going to be a lot of empty seats on planes, my asthmatic nephew is going to America next month and it is unlikely he is going to be allowed to take his inhaler aboard, its bloody ridiculous and a complete over reaction

 

How many planes have been blown up in mid air in the last 30 years ? I can think of Lockerbie and thats it and thats 1 flight out of MILLIONS globally in the preceding time so the chances of a bomb going off in flight are proportionately so low that these measures are totally unjustified

I completely agree with all measures taken ... better safe than sorry (oops 400 people are dead but they were well hydrated?) My sister was given free water once on the plane.

 

It is not feasible for secuirty to taste eveyones water - would you taste unknown liquids??

 

As for electrical equipment .. they don't think they are the bombs - but can be used as detonators. ... and surely everyone can live without their mobile phone for a couple of hours??

Do you think anyone at the airports etc wanted all this extra work and hassle - do you think they took these steps lightly??

 

I bet there are a few 9/11 families that wish such measures were in place a few years ago.

 

Put it this way mate, you're a Software Designer carrying a laptop with your new creation that you're taking to your big bosses in Tokyo (these are huge files that sure as hell aint gonna fit on a pen-drive..). You've put in hundreds of hours of work and your new game is potentially worth big bucks, not to mention the fact that the laptop and the specialist software on it itself is worth probably about two/three grand or so. Are you seriously gonna trust your incredibly important work and your laptop to some over-stressed, over-worked airport employee...? Fukkin' right you're not. And considering that airports will only compensate people to the tune of £250 for loss of personal property, you would have no chance of recouping your losses.. Same goes for a mobile phone, if some baggage handler loses your phone then you've lost all your important business contacts' numbers. The inconvienience factor of this alone will cost businesspeople time and money...

 

Apart from anything else, people who pay the extra for Business Class or Club Class are buying a service, they quite rightly expect that they will be able to use laptops, etc while on a long-haul flight...

 

As for 9/11, that happened because American airports never even had the most elementary of security checks in place for domestic flights, not even walk-through metal detectors, which would have been set off by people carrying knives, guns, etc in hand-luggage. 9/11 probably need never have happened had this simple, basic security measure been put in place.

 

It is not at all impractical to suggest that security people should taste what is in people's water bottles. How long does it take to check out a bottle? A minute at most..? Whether or not I would taste 'unknown liquids' is irrelevant, I dont work for airline security, but if I did, I'd just have to do it as part of my job... Besides I'm pretty sure that there's a piece of hand-held equipment that is used by forensics officers to check for explosives which security staff could be trained to use... Oh, wait a minute, what am I saying..? That'll cost the airlines money to implement wont it...? Which'll eat into their profits and shareholders dividends. Duh, silly me... Much cheaper to just put people to incredible inconvienience and pile even more work onto the already stressed-out airport staff and flight attendants..... <_<

Nothing in aviation travel is 100% safe

 

Like I said short of making every passenger travel starkers and giving each and every one of them an anal probe before they get on board there is no 100% safe way of stopping people putting bombs on planes

 

Measures like the ones that have been bought in will SEVERELY damage the airline industry and result in less people travelling, I was planning to go to Melbourne for the GP next season despite my intense dislike of flying but there is no way I am sitting through a 27 hour flight with nothing to read, nothing to listen to and nothing to drink bar the odd handout from very busy stewardesses, when flying does not become a pleasure for the millions who like flying and instead becomes an ORDEAL there is going to be a lot of empty seats on planes, my asthmatic nephew is going to America next month and it is unlikely he is going to be allowed to take his inhaler aboard, its bloody ridiculous and a complete over reaction

 

How many planes have been blown up in mid air in the last 30 years ? I can think of Lockerbie and thats it and thats 1 flight out of MILLIONS globally in the preceding time so the chances of a bomb going off in flight are proportionately so low that these measures are totally unjustified

 

..And Lockerbie was more than likely carried out by insiders who worked within the airport itself, didn't the bloke they put in prison for Lockerbie actually get himself a low-level job at the airport which gave him access..? (no one's ever gonna convince me that it was a one-man job anyway, the bloke clearly had help..) So what's to stop terrorists getting jobs in the airport and getting the bombs on board that way, or maybe even contaminating the in-flight bottles of water by injecting them with deadly poisons or toxins and killing everyone on board that way...?

 

Both of these scenarios would render the recent heightened security measures totally irrelevant...

 

You're correct, aviation travel is not 100% safe and you'll never be able to stop someone determined enough to blow up or hijack a plane from trying. So just what is the point in potentially damaging the industry with these ludicrous, over the top measures?

Sorry cant agree with that at all.. It's a bit like saying that Sonia Sutcliffe should be jailed because she was unfortunate enough to be married to the Yorkshire Ripper.. How far do you wanna take it..?

 

...funny you should say that, Scott... I'm currently finishing off the rather superb Wicked Beyond Belief, the in-depth account of the Ripper investigation.

 

Mrs Sutcliffe gave her husband a false alibi to police on 6 separate occasions.... far from being an unfortunate victim herself, she proved to be a dormant accomplice, and, like the families of these nationals held this week, was as guilty as the man himself in allowing him to carry on his murderous spree whilst she herself must surely have had strong suspicions as to where her husband was each time a girl was murdered.

...funny you should say that, Scott... I'm currently finishing off the rather superb Wicked Beyond Belief, the in-depth account of the Ripper investigation.

 

Mrs Sutcliffe gave her husband a false alibi to police on 6 separate occasions.... far from being an unfortunate victim herself, she proved to be a dormant accomplice, and, like the families of these nationals held this week, was as guilty as the man himself in allowing him to carry on his murderous spree whilst she herself must surely have had strong suspicions as to where her husband was each time a girl was murdered.

 

Well, okay, Sonia Sutcliffe, bad example.... :lol: And it's easy for someone with a strong personality to dominate the will of a person with a weaker personality, even going so far as to convince them to lie on their behalf...

 

But I still dont agree with you that these guys families are as guilty as you're implying. And frankly seeing as how none of 'em have actually been charged with a damn thing yet, any rash speculation on your or my part is rather foolish and unhelpful to be honest...

 

 

 

Don't you not think, though, that a family member who KNOWLINGLY allows a relative to plan this sort of attack should be reprimanded, too? I certainly do.

 

Surely, after the terror attacks these past few years, alarm bells would ring in a relative's head if their son, cousin, nephew, brother, whatever said they were to Pakistan for a number of months? That their personalities radically changed?

 

And people who feel this strongly about radical Islam, and who vehemently disagree with the way we live in Britain - they are rarely ever quiet about it... so for this reason alone, I do not believe for one minute the families of the 24 people held this week, or the bus and tube bombers last year's, were totally in the dark about their relative's involvement and plans.

Don't you not think, though, that a family member who KNOWLINGLY allows a relative to plan this sort of attack should be reprimanded, too? I certainly do.

 

Surely, after the terror attacks these past few years, alarm bells would ring in a relative's head if their son, cousin, nephew, brother, whatever said they were to Pakistan for a number of months? That their personalities radically changed?

 

And people who feel this strongly about radical Islam, and who vehemently disagree with the way we live in Britain - they are rarely ever quiet about it... so for this reason alone, I do not believe for one minute the families of the 24 people held this week, or the bus and tube bombers last year's, were totally in the dark about their relative's involvement and plans.

 

How do you prove it though ?

 

People's personalities can change for any reason, personal problems, drug addiction, financial problems, health problems, anger at not getting work, depression, people's personalities can change for any sort of reasons and for anyone of non white skin to be assumed to be a terrorist because they aren't as happy and smiley as usual is absurd beyond belief

 

And going back to your other point, I feel a hell of a lot of dis-satisfaction with Britain and in particular our government and voice it on forums and in restauants, does that make me a terrorist or a potential terrorist ?

I feel a hell of a lot of dis-satisfaction with Britain and in particular our government and voice it on forums and in restauants, does that make me a terrorist or a potential terrorist ?

 

I felt the very same in the 1980s, Ozzy, when Thatcher turned the UK into a police state and willingly and knowingly stole the miner's livelihoods out of nothing but pure spite and vindictiveness.

 

When the miners protested (on the streets, as they couldn't afford restaurants) - she set truncheon-wielding police armies at them - don't you remember?

 

So, for voicing your opinions and having the freedom to speak up for what you believe in - be thankful it's 2006 and not 1984, eh, or you could WELL be facing a police interrogation.

 

 

 

And people who feel this strongly about radical Islam, and who vehemently disagree with the way we live in Britain - they are rarely ever quiet about it... so for this reason alone, I do not believe for one minute the families of the 24 people held this week, or the bus and tube bombers last year's, were totally in the dark about their relative's involvement and plans.

 

The main beef of the Islamists though is UK foreign policy and UK's relationships with Israel and USA and I totally agree with them on that score, does that mean I'm gonna go on a bus and pack myself with explosives? Of course it doesnt. As I've said before, there is a huge gulf of difference between having an opinion, protesting and expressing disastisfaction and blowing up a packed bus, train or plane. How are parents supposed to know if their kids are really gonna be involved in actual terrorist activity or if they're just exercising their legitimate rights to freedom of speech and freedom of political expression...? They dont, and there is a HUGE difference between the two... It's a bit like expecting Irish Catholic families to actually know if their kids were really involved in the IRA or if they were just supporters of Irish Republicanism (again, a HUGE difference...)...

 

Bottom line - I grew up with people of Pakistani origin, I went to school with kids of Pakistani origin. For fukkin' DECADES people of Pakistani origin were amongst the most hard-working, law-abiding, decent people in this country and they integrated well into our towns and cities and became valuable members of our community. Now all of a sudden it's people of Pakistani origin that are plotting these things left, right and centre. We have to ask ourselves, just what the fukk has happened here, what we as a society have done to turn some of these incredibly law-abiding people against us...? It seems that we are totally unwilling to face the facts that it is our arse-kissing relationship with that fukkin' madman in the Whitehouse that is the root cause of many of the problems we are now facing... I mean, seriously, how much of this sh!t was happening in our country before we invaded Iraq....?

 

........ dont forget that it was the pakistani shop owners who were willing to open early till late, our white boys opend 9-5, after then you were up the swanny!..

we only just got back from London a couple of days before this all came out. we were so glad we got home when we did or we may (most likely) would have missed our connecting flight. Plus I brought a new phone at the airport and they would have taken it off me.

 

These terrorists are sick! They make us all scared $h!tless. I don’t see the need for it. Just because we don’t believe in their religion doesn’t mean that they should mass murder us. Who are they gonna attack next? China? China are not Muslim... I think what they are doing is wrong, how would they like it if we blew their planes up? and killed them? I don’t think that they would. i wonder it this will turn out to be a war or something? Maybe America should drop a nuclear bomb on them and weed out all the terrorists, then the world would be safe.

 

I cant help it when I am on a plane and see Muslim people (no offence) but since 9/11 and London etc. when I see Arab looking people and people with turbans and head gear on, I feel as though I’m not safe on the plane. I know that most of them are nice people but I still feel very unsafe. It should never have gotten to this stage. I don’t care, I like, respect people of all religions. That’s why I like it here in Australia, it is multicultural! But if think keep going on the way they are I maybe too scared to even walk outside. We have a growing Muslim population and if this kind of bloodshed continues I don’t know what will end up happening to the world.

 

When I was watching the news this morning, they had some 'expert' on talking about the risks to Australia. I saw it and thought...this is happening in the UK and US at the moment, why dose us with fear when we are scared $h!tless ourselves. The idiot then went on to say that he thought there would be a terrorist attack in Australia and that he thought they would blow up the Sydney harbour bridge or the water supply or the electricity plant or the sewerage. I thought, you stupid man! If they hadn’t already thought of that, then you have just given them a great idea.

 

 

Oh well that is all I have to say about these bast*rds

 

I mean, seriously, how much of this sh!t was happening in our country before we invaded Iraq....?

 

you have to realise that there were two options

1.support and help the US through 9/11 and against terrorism

 

or

 

2.do nothing

 

if the uk chose to do nothing, then when they started to target the UK (it is a war on westerners or non islamic people) and the US would not bother to help out. if there was ever to be a war in the UK, who would fight for you?

 

now, you chose to help the US. this works both ways. you help them and they help you. i would rather americas army behind me than just my own.

 

the bottom line is that the bast*rds would have gone through with terror attacks regardless if you invaded iraq or not. if anyone was going to blow you up, wouldnt it be someone from iraq?

Edited August 13, 200618 yr by visualisedelta

 

1.support and help the US through 9/11 and against terrorism

 

if the uk chose to do nothing, then when they started to target the UK (it is a war on westerners or non islamic people) and the US would not bother to help out.

 

whilst some of your points are right.... don't foget that when Britain was victim to 30 YEARS of terrorist attacks by the IRA.... America, far from do anything positive to help us combat it - they actually bloody FUNDED it! A huge section of the IRA's coffers were donated in the US, mainly in New York (ironically enough), where Noraid would go fundraising, collecting hundreds of thousands of pounds each year, mainly from "Irish/Americans" (Americans with an Irish second cousin, twice removed :rolleyes: ).

 

So the Americans can't really throw their hands up in the air and whine about awful terrorism... when they helped keep Britain under siege to CONSTANT attack from the barbaric IRA monsters for so many decades.

whilst some of your points are right.... don't foget that when Britain was victim to 30 YEARS of terrorist attacks by the IRA.... America, far from do anything positive to help us combat it - they actually bloody FUNDED it! A huge section of the IRA's coffers were donated in the US, mainly in New York (ironically enough), where Noraid would go fundraising, collecting hundreds of thousands of pounds each year, mainly from "Irish/Americans" (Americans with an Irish second cousin, twice removed :rolleyes: ).

 

So the Americans can't really throw their hands up in the air and whine about awful terrorism... when they helped keep Britain under siege to CONSTANT attack from the barbaric IRA monsters for so many decades.

 

spot on russ... well said.

ok well i didnt know about that....times have changed so i think it would be a little different now to what it was then. when was that btw? if it was ages ago, america maybe didnt help because they just broke free from the english leadership?

 

i dont know what im talking about, i dont know american/europe history...

Put it this way mate, you're a Software Designer carrying a laptop with your new creation that you're taking to your big bosses in Tokyo (these are huge files that sure as hell aint gonna fit on a pen-drive..). You've put in hundreds of hours of work and your new game is potentially worth big bucks, not to mention the fact that the laptop and the specialist software on it itself is worth probably about two/three grand or so. Are you seriously gonna trust your incredibly important work and your laptop to some over-stressed, over-worked airport employee...? Fukkin' right you're not. And considering that airports will only compensate people to the tune of £250 for loss of personal property, you would have no chance of recouping your losses.. Same goes for a mobile phone, if some baggage handler loses your phone then you've lost all your important business contacts' numbers. The inconvienience factor of this alone will cost businesspeople time and money...

 

Apart from anything else, people who pay the extra for Business Class or Club Class are buying a service, they quite rightly expect that they will be able to use laptops, etc while on a long-haul flight...

 

As for 9/11, that happened because American airports never even had the most elementary of security checks in place for domestic flights, not even walk-through metal detectors, which would have been set off by people carrying knives, guns, etc in hand-luggage. 9/11 probably need never have happened had this simple, basic security measure been put in place.

 

It is not at all impractical to suggest that security people should taste what is in people's water bottles. How long does it take to check out a bottle? A minute at most..? Whether or not I would taste 'unknown liquids' is irrelevant, I dont work for airline security, but if I did, I'd just have to do it as part of my job... Besides I'm pretty sure that there's a piece of hand-held equipment that is used by forensics officers to check for explosives which security staff could be trained to use... Oh, wait a minute, what am I saying..? That'll cost the airlines money to implement wont it...? Which'll eat into their profits and shareholders dividends. Duh, silly me... Much cheaper to just put people to incredible inconvienience and pile even more work onto the already stressed-out airport staff and flight attendants..... <_<

 

 

You are right - I wouldn't risk my laptop - but that is my choice - I wouldn't fly.

 

FYE - once checked into the airport and through passport control you are free to buy and take onboard all the drinks & goods available in the many shops.

 

Your suggestions for checking liquids are quite frankly innane - it is a bottle of water - NO security guard in their right mind would taste unknown liquids - and I personally would not want back a drink that had been swigged by someone else!!

 

Until terrorists agree to wear identity badges I for one am prepared to follow security guidelins if i choose to fly.

 

The measure may be an over reaction BUT i would rather that than give the terrorists free reign

visualisedelta - the IRA conflict ran from the early 70s up until, was it, 98 or 99? So... America could WELL have prevented the Noraid collections. This wasn't hundreds of years ago - this was in the last 10 years.

 

As for flying... I'm flying to Lisbon on Saturday - can I take my mobile phone? Hand luggage?

haha ^ your siggy is great! i love it lol. ok thanks for that i didnt know. and about your flight, go to the website of the airline you are flying with and it should say that there is no hand luggage allowed if it isnt. if there is no mention then i guess it is allowed. british airways are not allowing hand luggage at all, this means no food, laptops, bags, mobile phones, ipods, everything. oh qantas are so much better then british airways! haha

 

 

good point ICR i totally agree with you. i am willing to do anything just as long as i get off the flight alive!

 

you have to realise that there were two options

1.support and help the US through 9/11 and against terrorism

 

or

 

2.do nothing

 

if the uk chose to do nothing, then when they started to target the UK (it is a war on westerners or non islamic people) and the US would not bother to help out. if there was ever to be a war in the UK, who would fight for you?

 

now, you chose to help the US. this works both ways. you help them and they help you. i would rather americas army behind me than just my own.

 

the bottom line is that the bast*rds would have gone through with terror attacks regardless if you invaded iraq or not. if anyone was going to blow you up, wouldnt it be someone from iraq?

 

What a load of utter tosh! I must've missed the suicide bombs going off in France and Germany (the two biggest opponents of the illegal war in Iraq dont forget) then... And Spain pulled out of Iraq as well when they changed Govt, as yet, no follow-up attacks on Spain since they got rid of their lying, two-faced former PM Aznar who tried to blame the Madrid bomb on ETA....

 

Who said anything about doing nothing..? I believe that we should pull out of our "special relationship" with America and develop closer ties with the rest of the EU (eventually creating a United States of Europe and a combined European Armed Force) and try to come up with a totally, exclusively European answer to the Terror problem - ie one that does not entail us sucking up to the Christian Fundamentalists in the White House; as well as building ties with with emerging superpowers such as China and India, as well as closer economic ties to the Tiger Economies and Japan.... Britain does NOT NEED AMERICA!! And the sooner we actually wake up and realise this the better things will be for all of us...