Scott...

 

people can act like animals regardless of ethnic origin. And these kids ARE animals, end of.

 

Better watch Russ or they may declare a "fatwa" on you. :( Sympathise with your view of the area, but Scott is correct when he states gangs of youths cause mayhem up and down the country. A yob is a yob, regardless of creed or colour, I'm afraid.

Scott...

 

people can act like animals regardless of ethnic origin. And these kids ARE animals, end of.

 

Problem is, you aint making that very plain, I sympathise that your area is having problem with hooligans, but their race, creed or religion doesn't enter into it, and I think you are over-emphasising their religious denomination - a hooligan is a hooligan, end of story, and I dont think their mosque could control them any more than the local Priest or Vicar could control a gang of unruly "Catholic" or "Anglican" kids, the whole system of discipline and self-control has completely evaporated in our society thanks to misguided and wooly-minded liberal middle-class thinking, why should the Muslim community be immune from what is a general problem within the country as a whole.....

 

Which leads me on rather neatly to my next point - it's all very well to criticise the Mosques and the Muslim Council, but you are actually assuming that these organisations actually have any control or sway upon the growing army of angry, radicalised young Muslims. These people would more than likely see the Muslim Council as being part of the establishment and would therefore reject anything they had to say, same goes for the Mosques which are run by out of touch old men who have absolutely no way to reach these angry young people any more than the Catholic church could reach the IRA and other Republican terror groups.. So when you hear of the Police or Tony Blair meeting up with "representatives of the Muslim community" it is these very same out of touch old geezers that have no idea what's really going on...

 

Scott... you're absolutely right - you've got me on every point :rolleyes: .

 

I still think the Muslim Council are lunatics for not getting a good PR person in and sorting out their problems, though - they desperately need one.

 

Why oh why are they not more proactive in making loud, bold statements to try to pacify the masses and let non-Muslims know how abhorrent to the majority of Muslims these terrorist attacks are? To absolutely, unreservedly denounce these acts of violence? To fight for acceptance and understanding of their religion, which the majority now think is shady, ominous and has no place whatsoever in Britain?

 

To be able to live peacefully in the UK without suspicion, hatred and fear, they seriously need to try to gain sympathy and understanding here, and they haven't been doing a very good job of it at all so far. The Council seem to prefer the separatist stance - not giving a toss what non-Muslims here think - and Scott - that's simply not good enough.

 

Apparently, up north the unrest is already starting....if things carry on as they are, we're going to go back to the early 80s with riots on the streets demanding the expulsion of ALL Muslims...and as outrageous and unlikely as that may seem - never forget what happened to the Japanese in the US in WW2.

Scott... you're absolutely right - you've got me on every point :rolleyes: .

 

I still think the Muslim Council are lunatics for not getting a good PR person in and sorting out their problems, though - they desperately need one.

 

Why oh why are they not more proactive in making loud, bold statements to try to pacify the masses and let non-Muslims know how abhorrent to the majority of Muslims these terrorist attacks are? To absolutely, unreservedly denounce these acts of violence? To fight for acceptance and understanding of their religion, which the majority now think is shady, ominous and has no place whatsoever in Britain?

 

To be able to live peacefully in the UK without suspicion, hatred and fear, they seriously need to try to gain sympathy and understanding here, and they haven't been doing a very good job of it at all so far. The Council seem to prefer the separatist stance - not giving a toss what non-Muslims here think - and Scott - that's simply not good enough.

 

Apparently, up north the unrest is already starting....if things carry on as they are, we're going to go back to the early 80s with riots on the streets demanding the expulsion of ALL Muslims...and as outrageous and unlikely as that may seem - never forget what happened to the Japanese in the US in WW2.

 

Well, I've seen plenty of these very statements being made by various Muslim leaders, so I dunno how you could've missed 'em to be honest... And the only reason why some people think that the Muslim religion is shady or ominous is because of the way the Tabloid Media distorts the facts, the self-same "Media" let's not forget who put about the great lie about AIDS being a "gay plague" in the 1980s and denouncing gay rights groups such as Stonewall, so trust nothing these b/astards have to say....

 

I think it's a tad unfair to expect the Muslim community to bend over backwards in this way to be honest, I dont recall there being any such compulsion made on Catholic Priests who may have been privy to certain terrorist information gained through the Confessionals (let's face it, I would bet a good few IRA men and women would have confessed to their Priests, and these Priests knew damn fine who a lot of these people actually were...). So, in a way, were these Priests not putting their faith before their country, the very thing you accuse Muslims of....? I dont recall there being any newspaper editorials in the 70s and 80s calling for Priests and the Catholic church to break the sanctity of the confession to bring IRA terrorists to justice, perhaps there should have been, but I seriously doubt there was.

 

 

Scott...

 

everyone's aware that the Catholic religion is the vilest of the lot (well, they should be), so I'm not backing their cause against the Muslims at all. And I agree with you about the IRA.... but that's not saying it's any more repugnant now it's happening all over again. And it seems these impressionable young Muslims are meeting the extremists INSIDE the mosques - so surely, the leaders of these mosques have to be more aware and present a united, solid front against the extremists? I don't think the priests were willingly allowing IRA activity INSIDE their churches, you know.

 

And the AIDs comparison... hmmm.... maybe Blair could get some adverts produced, showing an iceberg with some Muslims on the top? Thatcher seemed to think that would work for AIDs ;) And not forgetting - thanks to Thatcher AND Reagan, the general belief, amongst gays and straights was that this WAS a gay plague. Both of these evil bast*rds ensured millions of straights, convinced they were immune, contracted the disease. Whilst the gays, convinced they were doomed, altered their sexual activities - things carried on as normal for heterosexuals.

 

But I'm digressing here.....

 

At the end of the day all I'm looking for is a bit of balance. We've seen instances of fanatical Judaism and Zionist Imperialism aplenty both recently and ever since the state of Israel was created, but where are the voices of opposition to this Zionist Imperialism..? Woe betide anyone who dares to criticise the Jewish faith or the State of Israel, our Politicians and the majority of our media certainly dont have the guts to lest they be battered senseless by the seemingly all-powerful Jewish lobby and the Jewish anti-defamation league, much easier to target Muslims cos their PR and their lawyers aren't as powerful.

 

Ironically we probably could have staved off this wave of fanatical Islam had we chosen to deal fairly with the wholly Nationalist PLO/Fatah guerrilas, whose aims and objectives were political, in the 1970s instead of merely write them off as 'terrorists' like the Yanks did (then as now, blindly following the Americans with no critical thought whatsoever...). The ending coda of Spielberg's flawed but rather interesting film "Munich" implies just that, and perhaps 9/11 need not have happened had we actually dealt in a fair and reasonable manner with the Arab Nationalists instead of being part of the Israeli oppression against them. But of course, people like Arafat and Nasser were 'dangerous lefties' weren't they, and likely to be closer to the Soviet Union than America... <_<