It's a shame this topic isn't in the Lounge as I think it deserves wider discussion than in here.

Radio 1 and co seem OK with R Kelly, so presumably marrying/having sex with 15-year-olds is permissable without being banned. Doubt that will apply to Lostprophets though, the remaining band members would have to change their name. I never liked them, and they never had a single track in their career make my Top 40. Hopefully I will never have to hear another one.

Fearne and Ian Watkins were together for less than a year and this was nearly 10 years ago so it probably hasn't affected her as much as people think. She probably feels just as sickened by the news as the rest of us do.

 

I disagree - why has she taken a week off from Radio 1 then?

Radio 1 and co seem OK with R Kelly, so presumably marrying/having sex with 15-year-olds is permissable without being banned. Doubt that will apply to Lostprophets though, the remaining band members would have to change their name. I never liked them, and they never had a single track in their career make my Top 40. Hopefully I will never have to hear another one.

 

R Kelly was found not guilty though?

 

Whatever anyone thinks of the verdict, like with Michael Jackson, the law says he is innocent, so should not be banned

R Kelly was found not guilty though?

 

Whatever anyone thinks of the verdict, like with Michael Jackson, the law says he is innocent, so should not be banned

 

He married Aaliyah when she was underage - court claimed she kept it from him and forged a birth certificate, I think, though, hey parents, friends, school yearbook, bit of checking, waiting a couple of years to be on the safe side....

 

She got a short career and early death out of it, sadly, and he got the first of more than one case involving underage girls. The last one one failed because the actual date of the video couldn't be positively determined (as to whether she was 15 as claimed or older than 16 when it took place).

 

Oddly, I dont have a problem with old recordings still being played by convicted criminals. Not that R Kelly is a convicted criminal, like Jacko he settled out of court.

This story horrified me, as a Dad myself i was sickened to the very core when i read the details that have emerged and when i read the stories today from papers etc i actually regretted reading them as i couldnt get it out of my mind all day.Jail is not enough for crimes like this, to be honest i dont even know who i am more sickened by, Ian himself or the mothers of the babies. Its all just horrendous no matter what way its looked at. I do feel sorry for other members of The Lostprophets, these guys were all friends as well as working together and finding all this out must have totally shocked them and has also ruined their career for now at the least.

Jail is not enough for crimes like this

What would you suggest?

Obviously given everything I've heard that this was inevitable but this sort of thing always brings up a question for me.

 

I have read here and from friends that they will delete or never listen to them again. I can't say I don't understand their feelings and I have no conflicting feelings as I never liked them anyway but given that Watkins is only a 5th of the band and not the sole architect of their music should we permanently ignore their work?

If you take music as an art form as much as entertainment (which I do) where exactly do we draw the line?

Glitter has effectively been almost retconned out of musical history so should we be doing the same with Walt Disney and Richard Wagner? They were both anti semites. Hugo Boss was a Nazi sympathiser who designed their uniforms.

James Brown was known to have beaten his wife senseless many times. So too Ike Turner.

Jerry Lee Lewis and Bill Wyman both married and admitted to sexual encounters with underage women. Steven Tyler in 1975 began dating a 14 year old girl and had her parents sign her guardianship over to him. Innocent? Perhaps but likely? You decide. Chuck Berry was arrested for taking underage girls across state lines and the daddy of them all Elvis Presley began dating Priscilla when she was just 14 years old. Although she maintains they didn't have sex until their wedding night many dispute that claim, particularly as she gave birth 9 months later to the day. He was also known for surrounding himself with young girls according to several sources.

 

My point is should the art be kept seperate from the actions? If we took this stance over every piece of work created by someone who was convicted of a vile crime no matter how much we feel we should then how much great art would we lose? I've only mentioned musicians because that's what I am most familiar with. I haven't even looked into film, painting, literature or theatre and I suspect there are many there throughout history.

You're assuming people are thinking about it rationally, when in reality it's an emotional reaction. The people you mentioned aren't associated with their actions in general and when they are it's just "oh... that kinda sucks". This has been thrown right into everyone's face and the disgust is understandable. I couldn't listen to a Lostprophets album now without thinking of what happened and that's just how it is, I'm not choosing to ignore them out of spite or whatever.

 

In any case, what he did is... beyond terrible. I honestly don't think I've ever been more sickened than I was when reading the details of all this. Agree with all points about help for people with unacceptable sexual urges definitely being needed, but a lack of help doesn't come close to an excuse for this man's actions.

You're assuming people are thinking about it rationally, when in reality it's an emotional reaction. The people you mentioned aren't associated with their actions in general and when they are it's just "oh... that kinda sucks". This has been thrown right into everyone's face and the disgust is understandable. I couldn't listen to a Lostprophets album now without thinking of what happened and that's just how it is, I'm not choosing to ignore them out of spite or whatever.

 

In any case, what he did is... beyond terrible. I honestly don't think I've ever been more sickened than I was when reading the details of all this. Agree with all points about help for people with unacceptable sexual urges definitely being needed, but a lack of help doesn't come close to an excuse for this man's actions.

I'm not assuming anything. Merely posing a question

But the question only works based on the assumption.

But the question only works based on the assumption.

The question isn't about the why it's about the should

The question isn't about the why it's about the should

What's the point in asking people if they think they should or should not do something they don't have any real control over?

Are you suggesting people don't have the ability to put their emotions to one side? Of course they do or the world would be overrun with murderers, rapists and nervous wrecks. It isn't because people are capable of making a rational decision despite their emotions.

We often put aside our feelings to make reasoned judgements. I was asking whether we should here

Deciding not to murder someone isn't a rational decision, it's emotional. If you didn't feel the emotion of guilt/fear (of getting caught), you'd probably do it.

 

I don't see how someone who couldn't stand listening to a Lostprophets song because it made them feel sick or whatever could decide "This is irrational, so I will force myself to listen to it". There's no reason to do it, there's nothing going against the negative emotions attached to listening to it.

Deciding not to murder someone isn't a rational decision, it's emotional. If you didn't feel the emotion of guilt/fear (of getting caught), you'd probably do it.

 

I don't see how someone who couldn't stand listening to a Lostprophets song because it made them feel sick or whatever could decide "This is irrational, so I will force myself to listen to it". There's no reason to do it, there's nothing going against the negative emotions attached to listening to it.

Lots of people wouldn't have the feelings of guilt though and wouldn't do it because they knew there'd be consequences.

If I acted on every emotion I had I'd have punched an awful lot of people but I put my feelings to one side and think 'no that's a bad idea', but I might still want to hit them.

Emotions and rational thought exist seperately although not all are capable of it.

 

I despise what he did as much as anyone sane but it wouldn't affect my thoughts toward the song. That said I won't line his pockets with my cash

 

 

 

 

I feel any rationalisations in making a decision serve solely to clarify the emotions at play. Realising the consequences is rational, deciding if you can stand the consequences is emotional.

I feel any rationalisations in making a decision serve solely to clarify the emotions at play. Realising the consequences is rational, deciding if you can stand the consequences is emotional.

I can see this conversation is becoming circular. I respect your opinion but have to disagree. There's little point in me re-stating my opinion as it isn't likely to change yours and I'm not saying that's bad thing.

Everyone is different and that's the last I'll say on this particular aspect.