Jay and Rob will always be also TT

I can concede to Jay, but Robbie...why? Because some of his fans want to take advantage of TT for as long as it suits them? Why would Robbie still be a part of TT? Why should he still benefit from everything TT does or wins if he's not willing to put in the effort and be in the band? His stunt in 2011 seems to have damaged the band more than it helped, so why should TT fans be loyal to him and grant him the honour of being a TT member?

And what does have to do with the discussion we were having anyway?

TT and Robbie benefited both 2011.

Aside of this as they have their own careers, rob with three successful tours, TT with one in the Uk.

but like paul McC will always be a Beatle, Rob will always be part of TT and when they want to have a special success again outside the

uk they simply need him

Three is number 40 in today's midweek information.

Will be interesting to see if the BBC show does anything.

It cant do no damage we do know. Surely, the worst outcome is low casual sales.

That documentary was something else when it comes to dvd spoilers :D You should have watched the dvd when you had the chance, Aphrodite :D

I hope the programme helped the sales, at least a little bit.

Interesting comment Gary said about him dreading the moment that no one wants to hear their new material.

I'm going to be honest here, Elisabeth you actually put me off coming on here because every time I do you're putting Take That down and bigging Robbie up. I know you're not so keen on Gary Kath, but you're constructive and your posts always make me smile and I like your sense of humour.

 

This comment from you Milly resonates deeply with me "His stunt in 2011 seems to have damaged the band more than it helped, so why should TT fans be loyal to him and grant him the honour of being a TT member?" the damage I feel from him re-joining is that Jason left. I saw them twice at Progress and all three of us who saw the first show commented that Jason really didn't seem happy and there was a strange atmosphere which was lacking when it was just the 4 of them - as in they seemed happy. One of us there was a Robbie fan and she even noticed it. I personally think that Jay knew exactly what Robbie was doing and didn't like it - but that's my opinion.

 

I know someone who met Jay not long after Progress and she said he was obviously confused and at the point where he couldn't decide whether to return and he made a disparaging comment that he was the least favourite and he knew everyone was there to see the rest of them. When he was told that simply wasn't true he said that he wasn't so sure. Not long after he said he was leaving. I really hope he comes back for the 25th anniversary, but I don't somehow think he will - though Robbie may well re-join if there's something in it for him.

Last night, for the first time in many years - since The Circus tour in fact - I saw the boys really happy and at ease with each other. I wasn't one to believe at the time that Robbie joined TT for the Progress tour out of personal interests, but, lately, I'm reaching the conclusion that he somehow used TT for his own benefit. I do believe he made peace with Gary, but he did not join the band because he wanted to be in the group again. In all the interviews taken during the Progress era, there was a tension in the air. I doubt they had open conflicts, but they clearly were not comfortable with each other and, in Jason's case, it was the most obvious. Gary seemed genuinely the happiest out of them all, probably because he thought Robbie was truthful and was willing to put the past behind them and to apologize. Unfortunately, I did not get the same feeling from Robbie.

I stand by what I said - Robbie may have helped TT sell more, but he ruined the balance and dynamics of the group and changed people's perception of the band. I still remember all the comments about Rob's behaviour and language during the gigs and how these elements put many people who perceived TT gigs as family events off.

As you all know, I haven't been able to see the boys live, but I do have all the dvd-s and, for me, Progress is the least enjoyable. I get sad every time I watch that dvd because I hate seeing Gary reduced to a backing singer and Robbie taking all the glory. Even now, I get annoyed by comments such as Elizabeth's, stating that Progress was critically acclaimed due to Robbie, which is simply not true, because even Robbie admitted that the new sound was all down to Gary - whether I liked it or not is another matter.

I would have preferred to hear more from the boys in last night's documentary, but, at least, I got the sensation that everything is right between them and the tension present during the Progress era was gone. They did seem a bit nostalgic, but, at the same time, well down to earth and willing to put the effort and make the band work.

When Gary said that they had been watching the social media for 48 hours to grasp people's reactions to Jason leaving the band, I really felt sorry for them and realized that it wasn't that easy for them to decide to go on as a trio. I know some people think that they stood together for money, but I don't see any evidence of that.

The new sound was not down to Gary, if any than Marks' influence was huge on Progress. The Flood was written by Robbie already in 2009 which is stated in the book you know me. Rob was the one who had been called by Jason for counsel as Jason admitted himself.

I agree though that the reasons for the unification was mainly due to other reasons than love, TT needed Robbie as they were going nowhere outside the UK without him. No one wanted to hear an old boyband in Europe. There only ever single selling there was Patience until Progress came up. The new album confirmed this. And Robbie needed someone to help him against the stage fright.I saw the concert twice, one time in the UK and I remember the 'oh' when Robbie came on stage. The question if the rejunion changed the dynamics of the band? Maybe, but you cannot always stick to the ever the same. And well, to stay with Gary's word. Remember the Paul o'Grady show? It was not Robbie who had to excuse. It was TT and Gary in particular who had to as they were not there for him and they did, different to some of the fans

I enjoyed the documentary. There was an underlying sadness and a recognition that it would all come to an end at some point, but also a clear appreciation of what they had. They all seemed genuinely in love with performing and aware of the fragility of what they do.

For the first time I saw a more reflective, vulnerable side of Gary, but what shone through was their friendship and closeness. Jay leaving has clearly left an indelible mark on them and I think they would dearly love him to return.

 

I watched the Progress show with trepidation and foreboding. The atmosphere was unlike any I'd previously experienced at a TT show and the lightness and joy that was so much a part of BW and The Circus was missing. I was one of a large group and we all said it was the poorest TT show we'd seen and that included the Ultimate tour. It was evident from the Progress documentary that something wasn't right with Jay - whether it related to Rob who can say, but his body language wasn't always comfortable to watch when Rob was around.

 

I think Gary took his eye off the ball as far as Jay was concerned. He was the one reluctant to return and was obviously sensitive about his lack of song writing skills and involvement in the production side of things. His solos in the BW and The Circus were a massive step forward and the lads clearly worked on building up his confidence. He slipped back into the shadows during the Progress tour to an extent where, aside from the dance off with Howard, he was almost invisible. This may very well have been his own choice, but it was clear that the dynamics had considerably changed, and not for the better.

 

When Howard and Jay missed so much of the promotion is was clear something wasn't right. I believe Howard missed interviews so the spot light wasn't directed solely at Jay. I remember reading some stories about discourse in the camp during the tour but I ignored them as simply media hype and scare mongering. However, given what transpired there is a question mark around what exactly occurred during those few years the band reformed as a five.

Completely agree, Dylandog.

I don't know if it was just me, but last night's documentary almost seemed like a farewell. I know the boys have plans for the following years, but there's still that nagging feeling that the end of the band is near. I hope I'm wrong, cause I still enjoy their output (Hey Boy aside :P )

 

I give up, Elizabeth. You take what you like from what others are saying and what you don't like, you twist it so it suits you.

The only point I'll make is the one about the Flood - Gary has explained in detail how he came up with the backing tracks for all the Progress songs and how he ended up with too many sections for the Flood. Robbie did write the lyrics, but, last time I checked, lyrics are only a small part of a song, so, by no means can you claim that Robbie wrote that song. Even if he wanted to, I doubt he'd be able to fully write a song.

Mybelle is right. Your comments on this thread are very off putting. At least with Kath I know that she dislikes Gary, but she does seem to acknowledge the band's merits when it comes down to it. You, instead, claim to appreciate Gary and TT and to wish them well, but all your posts prove otherwise. You are obsessed with success and especially with asserting non-stop that Robbie is more successful than TT outside UK. As a TT fan, I want them to be recognized everywhere, but I won't lose sleep if that doesn't happen. You seem to be under the impression that we go crying into our pillows or something because Robbie is more famous.

I'm normally the pessimist Milly. In this case I don't see them ending it any time soon. Next year Gary will promote his musicals, they have the Hyde Park gig and I think they may do some small international shows. 2017 will be the anniversary tour and the LV residency, and possibly a new album. 2017 will therefore be full on.

 

Howard has said they'll continue as long as people want them. Obviously that's not the case and at some point they will bow out, unless they become the pop equivalent of the Rolling Stones :) I think they will be around for some time to come and I intend to relish it for as long as possible. I may only have been a fan since 2006 but their live shows and albums have given me so much pleasure. Listening to some of the songs last night I thought - wow, what fantastic pop songs they are.

 

Gary comes in for a lot of stick but last night he seemed genuine, appreciative and they all seemed down to earth and un affected by the trappings of fame. With regard to the documentary- I realise it was to show case the tour but I would have loved an acoustic rendition of WYBTFM at the end of the programme. I still live in hope that I'll hear it live one day!

Elisabeth, just read your latest post. Gary was instrumental in the Progress album. He clearly stated in the documentary that he'd laid down most of the tracks even before the lads got together to work on the album. Rob did not write The Flood in 2009 because when the documentary was filmed they only had some of the lyrics. It's in the documentary and that can't be disputed - they had the outline of some verses but the song was anything but complete.

 

I liked some of the songs off Progress but preferred Progressed and I didn't like the electronic slant of many of the songs. Critically acclaimed it may have been, but I've yet to meet anyone that actually liked the album. Gary must take some responsibility but I think The Progress album damaged TT. People bought it but didn't actually like the sound or direction of it. The tour itself was their most financially successful and I concede that this is due to Rob's involvement, but I stand by my original analysis. It was a shadow of all their comebacks shows and by far their poorest live performance. It lacked heart, lightness and the wonderful dynamic so characteristic of the band was sorely missing.

Elisabeth, just read your latest post. Gary was instrumental in the Progress album. He clearly stated in the documentary that he'd laid down most of the tracks even before the lads got together to work on the album. Rob did not write The Flood in 2009 because when the documentary was filmed they only had some of the lyrics. It's in the documentary and that can't be disputed - they had the outline of some verses but the song was anything but complete.

 

I liked some of the songs off Progress but preferred Progressed and I didn't like the electronic slant of many of the songs. Critically acclaimed it may have been, but I've yet to meet anyone that actually liked the album. Gary must take some responsibility but I think The Progress album damaged TT. People bought it but didn't actually like the sound or direction of it. The tour itself was their most financially successful and I concede that this is due to Rob's involvement, but I stand by my original analysis. It was a shadow of all their comebacks shows and by far their poorest live performance. It lacked heart, lightness and the wonderful dynamic so characteristic of the band was sorely missing.

 

I have to agree with that. I'd been to The Ultimate Tour, The Beautiful World Tour (my favourite), The Circus Tour and The Progress Tour. I have to say - I'd long gone off Gary before Progress came along and I had vowed after 2010 never to waste another penny on TT (besides - I thought the Progress album was a pile of pants) however when The Progress Tour was announced - on impulse I bought a couple of tickets mainly to see Robbie and to get a taste of what all the fuss was about (without sitting through an entire two hours of Robbie alone). I have to say that I really did enjoy the Robbie bit - although I went to the loo when he sang Angels - what can I say - I just HATE that song (and parts of the five of them together - it was good to see Robbie join in with the cheesy 'Pray' routine (and seeming to enjoy himself). I was disappointed with the Take That (foursome) bit - and it just seemed that they (the four of them) rushed through that bit and didn't put any heart into it (no fault of Rob as he wasn't there) - it just seemed like they couldn't wait to get that bit out of the way so they could get to the five-some bit. It seemed like they were in awe of Robbie and just couldn't wait to be with him! I think that tour was a mistake for both Take That AND Robbie. Too disjointed and not a 'whole' experience (as the other tours had been) to be enjoyed.

 

I particularly disliked The Progress Tour because I had smuggled two cans of Bacardi & Coke inside my jacket - and one of the cans split so I was soggy for most of the night! And besides - Om wasn't a patch on the elephant from The Circus!

Edited December 23, 20159 yr by Kath

Kath, you'll have to let me into your smuggling technique. I always get found out even if it's a bottle of water!! Concur re TT 4 is wasn't good and fell flat. Some of the songs such as HUAL and RTW are songs that sit neatly at the end of a concert or when it's dark. I'm surprised they went with the 4, Rob, 5 pattern. Kim Gavin rarely puts a foot wrong, but in this case he did, unless the boys made it clear that's how the show had to run.

 

In my view they should just have sung TT5 songs from their early through to later songs. If necessary they could have put one or two TT4 songs and Rob songs into the show with them all singing but they had enough material not to do that. I don't blame Rob. They would all have been involved in the decision making. I simply think it was a mistake to reform for a tour in the first place. Rob left TT for a reason; he's a solo artist through and through - hence his success. He doesn't have the make up or personality for a band and needs to be centre stage. However, I do think they could have done one mega concert for charity - that would have brought the narrative to a natural end.

Merry Christmas everyone! :)

Merry Festive Greetings to one and all!

 

Kath xxxx

Merry Christmas everyone. Have a great day! X