September 20, 200618 yr Nirvana was sup-pop until after nevermind was released, that makes them indie even for you. I can also assue you that all the above groups were on the college radio charts (the us indie charts back then) at the time as well. Nirvana were certainly an Indie band before they signed to Geffen sure (as were Soundgarden and Dinosaur Jr when they were on Indie labels, the Pixies and Throwing Muses were always Indie bands because they never moved away from 4AD...), but after that they ceased to be Indie. They became the appointed face of the "Grunge" scene. Sorry mate, labels are important whether you like it or not because the whole 'Indie' ethos is built upon releasing records independently of the major companies. That's the whole point..... The "Indie sound" you refer to had a lot of different names to describe it - "Ethereal", "Shoegazer", "Dreampop" to name but a few.... Indie has become something different today mainly due to the term being hijacked by the music industry and the bullsh!tting likes of NME or Q who just see it as a marketing tool....
September 21, 200618 yr I'd like to get the new best of but it annoys me that they've taken one song off - "The Puppet". I don't think it was on "Ballyhoo" either. Also the live version of "Crocodiles" should be on there as it was a Top 40 hit as part of the "Shine So Hard" EP.
September 21, 200618 yr The Bunnymen were/are fantastic.... it's great to see their work constantly getting re-appraised through inclusion in recent movies, too. They're a band who, despite a turbulent career, continue to release top quality music. McCullogh's solo album was great, too, especially the duet with Elizabeth Fraser (Candleland). And 'Nothing Lasts Forever' is surely one of the greatest singles of the past 10 years.... superb songwriting. Edited September 21, 200618 yr by russt68
September 21, 200618 yr Author Sorry mate, labels are important whether you like it or not because the whole 'Indie' ethos is built upon releasing records independently of the major companies. That's the whole point..... Indie has become something different today mainly due to the term being hijacked by the music industry and the bullsh!tting likes of NME or Q who just see it as a marketing tool.... absolutely... im totally against the 're-writing' of pop history, facts, to suit todays fickle audience. its just another example of todays youth being fed bull$h!t, and they (knowing no better gawd bless 'em..lol) accept it. garage.... hell that was sub-'indie', look at it now, garage now refers to a genre that has nothing in common with original garage, r n b, pop, boybands... it really irritates me that the younger generation are getting it wrong, distorting pop facts and more importantly music itself. judging the past by current ideas is flawed, and it fails to recognise the very reason various styles emerged. it is important that the inspiration behind any given musical style is understood, otherwise how can anyone fully understand the music? that is why most of us oldies detest waterman stylee manufactured c**p...
September 21, 200618 yr Nirvana were certainly an Indie band before they signed to Geffen sure sup pop actually goes through shellshock (well that what the info for css says) :lol: so no woolworths associated THE/Vital for them :lol:
September 23, 200618 yr Sorry mate, labels are important whether you like it or not because the whole 'Indie' ethos is built upon releasing records independently of the major companies. That's the whole point..... The "Indie sound" you refer to had a lot of different names to describe it - "Ethereal", "Shoegazer", "Dreampop" to name but a few.... Indie has become something different today mainly due to the term being hijacked by the music industry and the bullsh!tting likes of NME or Q who just see it as a marketing tool.... give me break, i'm no babe in the woods... nme or q etc have no bearing in this conversation. indie is a 'sound' not a label. To me Indie is musicians with talent making music from the heart without over production. Some indie bands get lucky and get offered a major label deal and would be idiots to turn it down... but they are still indie bands.
September 23, 200618 yr give me break, i'm no babe in the woods... nme or q etc have no bearing in this conversation. indie is a 'sound' not a label. oh yes it is their address is: Indie Records Rua Mena Barreto, 29 Botafogo -CEP 22271-100 RJ - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
September 23, 200618 yr They're totally brilliant, still going on now despite their following being reduced to a mere cult again. Is their biggest album "Porcupine"?, cos that one reached #2 in the album charts, and I don't think they're topped the charts yet.
September 23, 200618 yr give me break, i'm no babe in the woods... nme or q etc have no bearing in this conversation. indie is a 'sound' not a label. To me Indie is musicians with talent making music from the heart without over production. Some indie bands get lucky and get offered a major label deal and would be idiots to turn it down... but they are still indie bands. Well, I guess you and I are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one... But just realise that the more people such as yourself say it's a sound rather than an ethos or a method, the more record companies and music journos are gonna obfuscate and misinterpret what actually defines "Independent" or "Alternative" music and they will continue to peddle us a load of ill-informed sh!te and try to convince us that bands like My Chemical Romance or Kaiser fukkin' Chiefs are "Indie" or "Alternative"...
September 23, 200618 yr oh yes it is their address is: Indie Records Rua Mena Barreto, 29 Botafogo -CEP 22271-100 RJ - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You can always rely on the Tiger to come up with something amusing to chuck into the debate....
September 25, 200618 yr Well, I guess you and I are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one... But just realise that the more people such as yourself say it's a sound rather than an ethos or a method, the more record companies and music journos are gonna obfuscate and misinterpret what actually defines "Independent" or "Alternative" music and they will continue to peddle us a load of ill-informed sh!te and try to convince us that bands like My Chemical Romance or Kaiser fukkin' Chiefs are "Indie" or "Alternative"... the world isn't black or white my friend. If you stick to your definition there are plenty of bands on indie labels that are not indie... Both those above bands I'd say are indie or alternative... but on the kiddie side is all and not very good of course... all genre's have better/worse music and I'm ok with that too...
September 25, 200618 yr the world isn't black or white my friend. If you stick to your definition there are plenty of bands on indie labels that are not indie... Both those above bands I'd say are indie or alternative... but on the kiddie side is all and not very good of course... all genre's have better/worse music and I'm ok with that too... Dude, take a look back to what comprised the Indie Charts in the 80s/early 90s - The likes of The Smiths, PWEI, Gaye Bykers on Acid, Stone Roses, My Bloody Valentine, Happy Mondays, James, Mudhoney, Primal Scream, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr, Ride, Fugazi, Inspiral Carpets, Babes In Toyland, etc, etc. Seriously, what did half of them have musically in common with each other...? Not a lot... So what is "Indie" if it isn't a method or an ethos....? The Indie Charts of this era always featured bands which seemed to be at musical odds with each other.. I will never accept MCR or KC as being Indie or Alternative, both are clearly mainstream guitar-pop acts and both are on Major record labels.... You'll be trying to convince me next that sodding McFly are "alternative".....
September 25, 200618 yr I will never accept MCR or KC as being Indie or Alternative, both are clearly mainstream guitar-pop acts and both are on Major record labels.... You'll be trying to convince me next that sodding McFly are "alternative"..... today when i came down stairs the radio was playing and on it was genesis (probably singing something about little pixies perhaps) and then razorlight came on singing america. i thought actually gensis sound more alternative than this and turned the radio off (as my dad had gone outside :lol:) and put on tv :lol: :lol:
September 25, 200618 yr today when i came down stairs the radio was playing and on it was genesis (probably singing something about little pixies perhaps) and then razorlight came on singing america. i thought actually gensis sound more alternative than this and turned the radio off (as my dad had gone outside :lol:) and put on tv :lol: :lol: Yes, ironically, bands like Genesis (and indeed others like Rush, Yes, ELP, Simple Minds, etc..) who we all denounced as being Superannuated, Corporate, Scum-sucking Whores back in the day, actually DO sound more "alternative" than most of the tripe that is being described as such these days..... :lol: :lol: Most of U2's output can be considered a lot more musically radical than about 90% of the stuff being currently played on X-Fm..... Dear or dear oh dear..... -_-
September 25, 200618 yr Seriously, what did half of them have musically in common with each other...? Not a lot... So what is "Indie" if it isn't a method or an ethos....? The Indie Charts of this era always featured bands which seemed to be at musical odds with each other.. that's my point! it has no bearing what label they were on!! There are indie bands on major labels and non-indie bands on Indie labels. The lines are not black and white...
September 25, 200618 yr that's my point! it has no bearing what label they were on!! There are indie bands on major labels and non-indie bands on Indie labels. The lines are not black and white... But you're saying that "Indie" is a genre, but I dont think it is, it's an ideological path which bands of whatever style consciously decide to go down, ie, to NOT sign away their music to big record companies, to retain authorship of their music and not sell out. As Tony Wilson's Factory "contract" put it "we dont own the music, our artists have the freedom to fukk off" THAT's what being "Indie" is all about IMO.... How can a band tied down to a six-record contract with a major label and then sign off the publishing rights to their music possibly be considered "indie"....?
September 25, 200618 yr How can a band tied down to a six-record contract with a major label and then sign off the publishing rights to their music possibly be considered "indie"....? don't know of any indie bands with that long a contract (heck, i can't think of more then 5 bands PERIOD with something like that), but plenty on shorter ones, mainly when those labels are small labels owned by a major label. It was much easier to differentiate back in the 80's/90's as there were more (independent) indie labels. Now with so many owned by majors the lines have greyed. Even Sub-Pop is owned by a major, but still acts like an indie. In your black and white defintion where would bands there fit in? There CAN be indie bands on major labels as well as non-indie bands on indie labels. Time to move on now, neither of us are wrong, I just argue the definition of indie is in the sound(s), ethos - not the label :)
September 25, 200618 yr don't know of any indie bands with that long a contract (heck, i can't think of more then 5 bands PERIOD with something like that), but plenty on shorter ones, mainly when those labels are small labels owned by a major label. It was much easier to differentiate back in the 80's/90's as there were more (independent) indie labels. Now with so many owned by majors the lines have greyed. Even Sub-Pop is owned by a major, but still acts like an indie. In your black and white defintion where would bands there fit in? There CAN be indie bands on major labels as well as non-indie bands on indie labels. Time to move on now, neither of us are wrong, I just argue the definition of indie is in the sound(s), ethos - not the label :) The whole 'six album' thing was just a number I pulled out of the air, I could easily have said three.... As far as the whole 'Indies owned by majors' thing, that pretty much has killed off the whole notion of 'independent' as an ethos as far as I'm concerned, I would posit that bands on labels such as Sub-Pop could be considered as "Alternative" acts, as the term "Alternative" hasn't got so much ideological baggage associated with it, it basically just means a type of music or band which is atypical of what is in the mainstream chart, which would certainly apply to the Sub Pop roster. Sub Pop may be acting autonomously and it may be getting left to its own devices, just now at any rate (I wonder how long THAT will continue for, considering what happened to Music For Nations after it was sold to Sony/BMG....), but it can no longer be termed an 'indie' label as ultimately it has to answer to a Corporate Paymaster. I would term labels such as this and others in a similar position as being "Autonomous", but autonomy is not the same as independence.... :)
September 25, 200618 yr Sub Pop may be acting autonomously and it may be getting left to its own devices, just now at any rate (I wonder how long THAT will continue for, considering what happened to Music For Nations after it was sold to Sony/BMG....), but it can no longer be termed an 'indie' label as ultimately it has to answer to a Corporate Paymaster. I would term labels such as this and others in a similar position as being "Autonomous", but autonomy is not the same as independence.... :) and talking about indie things, i've noticed something on wikipedia, something that the (yank biased site) has missed out: Pinnacle can refer to: Pinnacle, an architectural feature, such as on a church tower. A natural rock formation. Examples include: Pinnacles National Monument The Pinnacles Desert The Inaccessible Pinnacle Pinnacle State Park in Addison, New York, an overlook of the Canisteo River Valley Pinnacle Airlines Pinnacle Systems, Inc., a digital video producer and distributor. Pinnacles, a 1983 album by Edgar Froese. The ultimate development of an art, technology, or science, whence little further progress is expected Pinnacle Studio, a video editing application. Small populated areas in the United States Pinnacle, Arkansas is in Pulaski County Pinnacle, Kentucky is in Lee County Pinnacle, Montana is in Flathead County Pinnacle, North Carolina is in Stokes County, zip code 27043 Pinnacle, Tennessee is in Cheatham County Pinnacle, Tennessee is in Sevier County Pinnacles, Queensland: A suburb of Townsville, Far North Queensland, Australia where the fukk is Pinnacle Entertainment? http://www.pinnacle-entertainment.co.uk/index.php
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