Anyone else think the QT special tonight was bad for Milliband?

In the least surprising news of the election, Ed Miliband is giving into bullying from the Tory press yet again:

 

Polls post debate were

 

Cameron 44%

Milliband 38%

Clegg 19%

 

Thought that was generous for Ed - that lady in the audience teared him apart as did saying that labour didn't overspend (technically they didn't and it was a crash caused by overspending by government but people don't believe that due to the Tory press these past 5 yrs)!

Edited April 30, 201510 yr by steve201

In the least surprising news of the election, Ed Miliband is giving into bullying from the Tory press yet again:

 

He's going for a minority then. This could actually be far cannier than it looks - if he's first on seats, it's academic. He'll easily be able to govern on a vote-by-vote basis without having to do a specific deal with the SNP, as they've already committed to not bringing in a Tory government.

 

If he's second on seats, we'd face an absolute PR obliteration - the papers and the Tories will be screeching about their moral authority to govern, and (sadly) I think the public would buy the argument that first on seats means you should 'win' (regardless of how meaningless that is when you don't have a majority). It's actually probably better in terms of long-term legitimacy to let the Tories crow their way into a minority government and have an utterly chaotic time failing to get anything through for a couple of months, before losing a vote of no confidence - the argument having been proved that being first on seats is utterly meaningless in itself if you don't have the votes together.

Vote-by-vote deals with the SNP with are going to be spun by the press as him "breaking his promise", surely? He's backed himself into a corner just to try and get the bullying to stop for a couple of days, as usual.

Edited April 30, 201510 yr by Danny

Also, I think this assumption that SNP MPs are going to all happily vote for Labour budgets so that they don't risk letting in the Tories is pretty naive. Even IF Nicola Sturgeon would want to do that, the Mhari Black's (the 20-year-old anarchist running against Douglas Alexander) are not going to be voting for Labour legislation that they totally disagree with. These largely aren't going to be a bunch of career politicians who give up their principles just to keep the peace.

Edited April 30, 201510 yr by Danny

I presume he's planning on basically just putting forward bills where there's manifesto overlap or where the SNP would have a hard time explaining why they voted against, but without any specific deal on each vote; or where he may be able to pick off votes from other parties - even if the Lib Dems didn't join a coalition, that wouldn't necessarily bind all of them to vote against on any bill, and it would probably be in the interests of a fair few Lib Dem MPs to vote in favour of a lot of Labour manifesto pledges.

Also, I think this assumption that SNP MPs are going to all happily vote for Labour budgets so that they don't risk letting in the Tories is pretty naive. Even IF Nicola Sturgeon would want to do that, the Mhari Black's (the 20-year-old anarchist running against Douglas Alexander) are not going to be voting for Labour legislation that they totally disagree with. These largely aren't going to be a bunch of career politicians who give up their principles just to keep the peace.

Thank god she's not going to win then!

 

(I'm really tempting fate there but if we don't win Dougie's then we're literally losing everything so me being wrong would be the LEAST of our worries in that event!)

 

Regardless, the SNP tried to spin letting in Thatcher as a principled vote too and that didn't exactly work either. If she wants to get a reputation as someone happy to bring in a Tory government she can be my guest!

(I hope you aren't bored of this conversation and the obvious to-and-fro 'no YOU'RE bringing in the Tories' 'NO YOU'RE BRINGING IN THE TORIES!' high-stakes tete-a-tete already because off the back of this promise that's pretty much what politics is going to be for the foreseeable future if Labour become the next government.)

 

(Yes, it's almost enough to make you want a disastrous Tory minority.)

 

(YES, the thought does appeal.)

Anyone else think the QT special tonight was bad for Milliband?

His suggestion that he would prefer Cameron to remain PM over doing any sort of deal with the SNP was weird. Of course, he has to say that he is going for a majority Labour government. However, as one audience member said, he might gain some respect if he admitted that he might need the support (in some unspecified way) of another party. I didn't see the Cameron part as I gave up within three seconds of him opening his over-priveliged gob.

His suggestion that he would prefer Cameron to remain PM over doing any sort of deal with the SNP was weird. Of course, he has to say that he is going for a majority Labour government. However, as one audience member said, he might gain some respect if he admitted that he might need the support (in some unspecified way) of another party. I didn't see the Cameron part as I gave up within three seconds of him opening his over-priveliged gob.

 

Exactly. Him furiously saying he wouldn't deal with the SNP isn't convincing those who are deadset in hatred of the idea (if it was going to work then it would be working already since he's been saying it nonstop for weeks), and on top of it he makes himself look even more weak and easy to push around by his critics.

If we lose this election, it's Ed's fault.

 

Still don't understand choosing him over David at ALL.

David would've made the current fracturing of the left look like a mild tiff.

In a way it would be crueller for Cameron to be left as a really impotent leader who couldn't get any legislation passed (even with the odious right wing one-two of UKIP and the DUP) so the sadist in me wouldn't mind that.

Watching Ed tonight was the first time throughout this campaign I've felt cringing a bit at him, that audience was ruthless (to be fair they were ruthless to all three but especially Ed it felt like), but all that shit about the last Labour government spending too much got tiring very quickly and it didn't seem like he had a great defence.

 

But the notion that he is going for a minority government is rather intriguing, I hope it doesn't backfire on him, he's got to be under an extra onus to deliver what he says now that he's made such a big deal of being an honest underpromising guy.

Anyone else think the QT special tonight was bad for Milliband?

 

 

Yes. Cameron on the other hand looked passionate, fire-up and more Statesman like.

I didn't see the Cameron part as I gave up within three seconds of him opening his over-priveliged gob.

 

 

LOL. I didn't see Clegg but understand someone told him he'd be looking for another job next week!

Yes. Cameron on the other hand looked passionate, fire-up and more Statesman like.

Cameron performed worse than Ed. He literally sidestepped every question that was too awkward to answer, again (food banks) and looked visibly uncomfortable when somebody asked why they should trust him or whatever. Sorry but Ed did better and only a 6% difference in the snap poll, when Cameron's approval ratings are historically far higher, suggests as much.

Cameron performed worse than Ed. He literally sidestepped every question that was too awkward to answer, again (food banks) and looked visibly uncomfortable when somebody asked why they should trust him or whatever. Sorry but Ed did better and only a 6% difference in the snap poll, when Cameron's approval ratings are historically far higher, suggests as much.

 

 

I agree on your point about dodging the questions but unfort DC is better at dodging questions and coming out better. The problem with Ed is he actually tries to answer them instead of lying in all bar the coalition question.

 

He was between a rock with the post election coalition stuff - if he had gave in at all every tory paper tomorrow morning would have led with it and he would have lost alot of undecided middle england votes next thursday. He stod his ground ok i thought. I missed the guy from the financial centre who said a Labour government want to destroy the money making sector of the economy. What did he say?

LOL. I didn't see Clegg but understand someone told him he'd be looking for another job next week!

 

 

Yeh he answered it very well though dismissing him without being insulting like the guy was being. He just replied "Charming, No!"