I also love Ascension. It has quite an epic and really interesting sound. It's quite brilliant in fact and is very reminiscent of the song Power of Love an earlier song by Holly Johnson( showing my age here). Gary has captured the essence of Holly's sound and vocal ability exceptionally well.

 

I have to agree Gary's best work has not been for TT - but for his other projects. If Ascension reflects the quality of the other songs off the forthcoming album then we're in for a treat. I would go as far as to say that if Ascension had been released by someone like Adele it would have been lauded and been a world wide hit. As things stand I doubt it will dent the charts as Radio 1 and the commercial stations wont give it air time.

 

I'd love to know what's happening in terms of TT's songwriting approach - because whilst I enjoy III it doesn't reach the quality of Gary's current solo output. He seems to thrive off a brief which gives direction to his writing and I can imagine Ascension at the end of the film's credits as the lyrics fit fantastically into the film's theme. I would go as far as to say that Gary's transition into musical theatre and film is proving to be very successful and bodes well for his future in these areas.

I think it makes a lot of sense for a tour, a new single and a new greatest hits collection. Jason might really need the money by now. Robbie Williams lost his star power at some point and needs Take That about as much as Gary Barlow needs Robbie Williams. Personally, I just wish they would just focus on making music as good as they have in the past.

I love Ascension. It sounds very dramatic and rockish. When I first heard it, I thought it would be a good song for Eurovision - but in a good way.

People have been saying that Gary keeps his best work for TT, but lately, I have the impression that his best work has been the one he's done for others. The songs for all the musicals and for the movie, to me at least. sound better and more mature than what he's done with TT.

 

If anyone wants to listen to Ascension: http://milly-gb.tumblr.com/post/1385459586...rack-written-by

 

Thanks for the link. I am not keen. Seems very generic to me. What is unique or special about it?

 

Well Bond Bug, for losing his star power Robbie had a huge sell out tour each last years since 2012. And I don't see Gary needing Robbie. He is doing great in many ways and TT? I admire them at least for trying something new despite the must have known that they are not that big anymore everyone will follow. Robbie had experienced that with Rudebox. Fans want the style they know when the music act is established and not the next big thing.

I don't think that YY need Rob or vice versa. It would only be nice to see them together again

Not everyone will like Ascension, but I don't think it's generic. It has an interesting intro, wonderful use of orchestration which isn't common in modern day pop music and an unusual climax to the song. I think it's fab and I wish Gary had kept the song for TT. Adaptations would have been required to suit the band but it would sound amazing live.

 

Not often I agree with Elisabeth but at this stage Rob doesn't need TT. I think he did in 2010 but not now. As for Jay he's a very wealthy man and will never need to work again. If he decides to return ( which I think is very , very unlikely) it wont be for financial reasons because I don't think Jay has that kind of mind set, but because he genuinely misses performing.

Unless you approach a very personal subject - lyrically- every song is, to a certain extent, generic. But if we apply that notion to songs like Ascension, then what term do we use for 1D, Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato, Selena Gomez, Olly, Britney, Ed Sheeran, Sam Smith, Adele and so on?

Given the theme of the movie, the soundtrack fits like a glove. And the string section is sooo beautiful and the crescendo so dramatic that I can't help but feel entranced and moved.

Of course not everyone will like the song, but I don't think it's right to call it generic either. It's not exactly a commercial song and I don't see radios hurrying to play it.

I, for one, like it and I'm intrigued to hear what the rest of the album sounds like.

 

As for TT and Robbie needing each other, I agree to it from a certain point of view: TT need Robbie business wise, to sell more, and Robbie needs TT creatively. But that's it. Robbie will probably continue to sell well no matter what he puts out and TT will continue to create music as they please and to tour, no matter what the sales.

And Jason - well, he only needs to buy himself a park with lots of benches :P I doubt he'll ever be in need of money. It would be good if he agreed to do at least one gig with the boys again.

Well Bond Bug, for losing his star power Robbie had a huge sell out tour each last years since 2012. And I don't see Gary needing Robbie. He is doing great in many ways and TT? I admire them at least for trying something new despite the must have known that they are not that big anymore everyone will follow. Robbie had experienced that with Rudebox. Fans want the style they know when the music act is established and not the next big thing.

I don't think that YY need Rob or vice versa. It would only be nice to see them together again

 

Thank you for your reply Elisabeth.

 

I don't mean to take anything away from the success of Robbie Williams, but it is no longer at the level it was at when he could expect to sell two million copies of each album in UK alone. Take That may not hit number one with its next album or single, but Robbie could help it get there. I want to hear another Back for Good or another Rule the World.

I agree, Rob will not sell 2 million in the UK. He will probably even sell less that TT in the UK as TT are more liked there. But he will sell a lot more in the rest of Europe where for whatever reason TT 3 and TT 4 have not really find a stand.

I personally can imagine that TT3 and RW benefit each other in songwriting. They will part again. But it may help both

It seems it's a certainty that Robbie will be back with the boys next year "to help them commemorate their astonishing rise" <_< Here I was thinking that their astonishing rise was due exactly to his absence :P

Can't say I'm surprised, but I'm definitely not a happy bunny. I can put up with Robbie for a gig or two, but I don't like the idea of him writing with the boys and doing a whole tour with them. With my luck, they'll include Romania on their tour list next year and, the only time I'll probably get to see them, I'll have to put up with the Robbie show :(

Why can't the boys get it through their heads that most TT fans DON'T want Robbie back?

are you doing polls as profession, milly or how do you reason your knowledge that 'mist fans don't want him in'?

Seeing the reaction this cannot be Canonian right.

They both have interests in him joining:

He likes to sing with TT and will always be part of them, they need him to sell a tour in Europe (the last tour proved it) and to get back on a successful track. They have realized exactly that they would not even repeat the success of the tours where the money is in the UK after the last months of denial.

Plus, the tax scandal will otherwise pop up again in times where even the British PM is involved in such themes.

With Robbie the headlines will be on the reunion.

Following the discussions here and between TT fans the last album had not been a favourite between critics and fans.

Robbie and TT will have both albums out this year. Robbie will tour solo 2017 and then the Greatest hits, this is a moneymaking machine and that is what it is

 

I don't do polls, Elisabeth, but I sure can read them - luckily for me, one neuron seems to be enough to get the job done :D There have been polls put up by various papers over the years about Robbie rejoining the band-I'll let you guess what the general consensus was. But that was not what I was referring to. It's enough to be on twitter from time to time or to enter a TT group on fb to realize what the general perception is on Robbie and TT.

You and I are talking about different things, it seems. All you care about is money and fame and venue sizes, while I'm talking about what TT fans want.

Of course Robbie rejoining TT means that they'll sell more, cause we're gonna have 2 fanbases combined, but that doesn't mean that TT fans will be happy about it.

Whatever you may think of III, it will stand the test of time better than Progress and, if fans had to choose which one to listen to, I'm sure they'd pick III. Success and quality don't always go hand in hand.

 

I don't even understand why you're so adamant about Robbie being in TT. You don't like TT anymore than we like Robbie - the difference is that we're being honest with our wishes and don't expect the boys to sell out just for the sake of some bucks. It's beyond me why you want Robbie to come back. I'm pretty sure the band's welfare is the last thing on your mind.

I'd rather see TT in a venue of 2000-3000 people - heck, I'd go even for 200-300 - and enjoy them, than see them on a stadium with Robbie and have to fight the urge of throwing something at him.

 

Still can't see how Robbie would "salvage" their "damaged reputation", when he himself is involved in tax schemes? And not only that, he and Ayda have a sexual harassment suit and he's involved in a couple more suits with other people. I may be a bit dim, but doesn't that mean that his scandalous behaviour would affect the band in a negative way?

Most of the categories for Hyde Park are sold out and, considering we're talking about 50.000+ tickets, I think it's safe to say that, tax scandal or not, TT are doing just fine in UK without Robbie and they don't need him to distract anyone's attention.

Edited April 16, 20169 yr by milly

It's like groundhog day - 2010. There will never be a consensus between TT4/3 supporters and TT/Robbie supporters. It's a divided fandom and nothing will change that. I'm in Milly's camp and I've stated my views many times regarding Rob.

 

For TT5 fans this is exactly what they've wanted - but for many it's simply not. I was so looking forward to the anniversary tour, but I had a gut feeling Rob would come on board and so it's proved to be. I am seriously considering whether to attend the tour which is a shame and I'll have to satisfy myself with Hyde Park and perhaps an international gig (finances permitting). I've tried to rationalise my feelings about Rob and embrace his involvement but I can't bear to watch him perform - I really can't. Progress was the worse tour post comeback. Most of the publicity will focus on Rob (not his fault ) but it takes away from the bands achievements post 2005 and relegates it to an after thought. He will dominate publicity campaigns and yet again viewed as the prodigal son returning to the fold.

 

The recent tour included multiple nights at the O2 and other large arenas, so the anniversary tour will attract large numbers. It's really not just about large stadiums, it's about an almost indescribable feeling they evoke when they perform. It's a lightness, joy and a feeling of being part of a wonderful piece of entertainment- and that's difficult to quantify Elisabeth. From my perspective, Rob offers nothing to improve their live performances. A showman he may be but the beauty of TT in my eyes is the symmetry and balance between the band members. When Rob's with them that equilibrium is lost. I would dearly love Jay to return and everyone would welcome him with open arms, sadly, there will never be such a consensus with regard to Rob.

I'm still not sure if "TT5 fans" reflects a reality. I know there is a very small number of fans who love TT in all its incarnations, but I always had the feeling that TT5 fans are nothing more than Robbie fans who "happen" to like TT too whenever he's back in the band - something like Elisabeth, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know many TT5 fans who support TT as a 4 or 3 piece as well, which, in my eyes, means they're not actually TT fans at all.

 

I know these differences of opinion will never ever be settled, but that's what forums are about - to express our opinion and vent our frustration a bit, cause, at the end of the day, that's all we can do. The boys will do whatever they want anyway, regardless of what we think.

 

Putting aside my dislike for Robbie, I honestly don't see how this "collab" is going to work - for the greatest hits album and for the tour. Are they gonna re-record all the hits in order to include Robbie's vocals (may God have mercy on us!! - putting Robbie on Never Forget was bad enough. I never heard Never Forget sound worse than on XF, when TT sang it with 1D and you could hear Robbie's awful backing vocals and harmonies), are they gonna have separate sections again on tour, like they did for Progress? Let's keep it real for a moment and admit that TT's "greatest hits" don't really include Robbie, aside from The Flood. Rule the World, Greatest Day, Patience, The Garden, Said It All, Hold Up A Light, Shine, even the old ones - Never Forget, BFG, A Million Love Songs, Nobody Else, How Deep is Your Love and so on, they never had anything to do with Robbie and I sincerely don't see what there is to celebrate about him in relation to the band. He just isn't relevant for the band's anniversary.

Edited April 17, 20169 yr by milly

I'm still not sure if "TT5 fans" reflects a reality. I know there is a very small number of fans who love TT in all its incarnations, but I always had the feeling that TT5 fans are nothing more than Robbie fans who "happen" to like TT too whenever he's back in the band - something like Elisabeth, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know many TT5 fans who support TT as a 4 or 3 piece as well, which, in my eyes, means they're not actually TT fans at all.

 

I know these differences of opinion will never ever be settled, but that's what forums are about - to express our opinion and vent our frustration a bit, cause, at the end of the day, that's all we can do. The boys will do whatever they want anyway, regardless of what we think.

 

Putting aside my dislike for Robbie, I honestly don't see how this "collab" is going to work - for the greatest hits album and for the tour. Are they gonna re-record all the hits in order to include Robbie's vocals (may God have mercy on us!! - putting Robbie on Never Forget was bad enough. I never heard Never Forget sound worse than on XF, when TT sang it with 1D and you could hear Robbie's awful backing vocals and harmonies), are they gonna have separate sections again on tour, like they did for Progress? Let's keep it real for a moment and admit that TT's "greatest hits" don't really include Robbie, aside from The Flood. Rule the World, Greatest Day, Patience, The Garden, Said It All, Hold Up A Light, Shine, even the old ones - Never Forget, BFG, A Million Love Songs, Nobody Else, How Deep is Your Love and so on, they never had anything to do with Robbie and I sincerely don't see what there is to celebrate about him in relation to the band. He just isn't relevant for the band's anniversary.

 

If for any reason though Milly - Howard, Mark (and Jay if he were ever inclined to come back) were to go ahead with a little tour without Gary (supposing he's too tied up with his solo stuff) would you be bothered to support them? I don't think so. I didn't mind the Progress concert I attended (I only went to it to see the whole 'Robbie' phenomenon - without having to sit through a whole two hours of him. The concert as a 'whole' didn't work nearly as well as BW or TC - but I did think that the best thing about it was Robbie's solo bit in the middle (apart from Angels - I went to the loo when he sang that - which for some reason I detest with a passion - the song Angels that is - not going to the loo). I'm not sure if the other four felt in in awe of Robbie - but their own 4-part sets were a bit of a damp squib.

 

Personally (tax issues aside) I preferred the TT4 concerts - but I wouldn't go to a Gary Barlow concert on his own. It was those four guys I liked as a whole thing that worked - Jay, Gary, Howard and Mark. I wouldn't go to see Jay (well I could if he were in a film or something), Howard and Mark - but at the same time - nothing could drag me to a Gary solo gig - I find him a little boring unless he is in the company of the other two (or three - or even four). Yourself and a lot of others though - WOULD go to a Gary solo concert and not support the other two (or three).

 

Taking all of the above into account then - makes you have a hell of a lot in common with Robbie fans. You really should hang out together and chillax! :lol:

 

If for any reason though Milly - Howard, Mark (and Jay if he were ever inclined to come back) were to go ahead with a little tour without Gary (supposing he's too tied up with his solo stuff) would you be bothered to support them? I don't think so. I didn't mind the Progress concert I attended (I only went to it to see the whole 'Robbie' phenomenon - without having to sit through a whole two hours of him. The concert as a 'whole' didn't work nearly as well as BW or TC - but I did think that the best thing about it was Robbie's solo bit in the middle (apart from Angels - I went to the loo when he sang that - which for some reason I detest with a passion - the song Angels that is - not going to the loo). I'm not sure if the other four felt in in awe of Robbie - but their own 4-part sets were a bit of a damp squib.

 

Personally (tax issues aside) I preferred the TT4 concerts - but I wouldn't go to a Gary Barlow concert on his own. It was those four guys I liked as a whole thing that worked - Jay, Gary, Howard and Mark. I wouldn't go to see Jay (well I could if he were in a film or something), Howard and Mark - but at the same time - nothing could drag me to a Gary solo gig - I find him a little boring unless he is in the company of the other two (or three - or even four). Yourself and a lot of others though - WOULD go to a Gary solo concert and not support the other two (or three).

 

Taking all of the above into account then - makes you have a hell of a lot in common with Robbie fans. You really should hang out together and chillax! :lol:

 

Don't think I wasn't expecting the question, Kath :D

Of course I wouldn't go to a "TT" concert without Gary - why should I? TT was build around Gary and is, mainly, Gary Barlow. That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the input the other 3 boys have had in the band since the reunion, but the reality is the same as in the 90s: there wouldn't be a TT without Gary. You can't seriously tell me you'd consider Mark and Howard and possibly Jason a band? Honestly, putting aside the songwriting, who'd go to 2 hours of Mark Owen or Howard Donald vocals (it's a rhetorical question, cause we got the answer on Mark's solo tour)? The 3-4 of them work amazingly together, but, take Gary away from them, and you get 3 elements who wouldn't know what to make of themselves on the stage. The sound of TT has always been Gary and he'll always be.

What would I listen to, anyway, on a TT gig without Gary? Mark singing BFG or A Million Love Songs or RTW or Patience? Robbie's input into the band is reduced to Progress. Everything Changes and a cover of CIBM - he was never a central element to the band.

I don't think the analogy you're making is a fair one. Robbie's gigs have worked so far because of his "performance" skills and the tone of money he puts of the staging - even for Progress, most of the money went into his set part. I saw a couple of RW sets - only him and the band - and they were the most boring ones I've ever seen. Boring or not, Gary has at least the voice to keep the audience interested for 2 hours, Robbie managed to put his audience to sleep in less than 10 minutes, because, if you take away the antics and big numbers from his performance, there's nothing left to RW.

I know you enjoyed his part on the Progress tour, but many fans didn't. It's only a taste matter. I agree with you that, on the Progress tour, the TT4 part was a bit lacklustre, but how could it not have been, when they used their biggest songs so early on in the show? Until then, nobody had been bored of RTW or Patience or Greatest Day. And the only money they spent on that 1st part was on Hold Up A Light. They threw a lot of money on Robbie's pyrotechnics - of course that makes for an impressive set, next to Robbie's shouting and to the drunk RW fans jumping up and down like they were possessed.

 

Believe it or not, I do have friends who are RW fans :D And we did hang out together. But that doesn't mean I'd put myself through 2 hours of torture and listen to him scream or watch him pull the fingers to the audience. I'm quite fond of my ears still :P The worst Gary could do is bore me, but at least he wouldn't damage my ears or send me to prison for wanting to strangle him :P

 

If given the opportunity to see TT as a 5 piece or at all, of course I'd go - I can't say I'd pass that chance. I'll probably support TT even if Robbie does come back; it's just that I'd rather not have to, that's all. Unlike TT5 fans who stop supporting the boys as soon as Robbie decides to leave again, I do support them even with him in the band. I don't enjoy it, but I do it.

The only thing I WILL NOT support, no matter what, is a new kind of Progress album, where Robbie and Mark share the leads and Gary has only one song. It's one thing to put up with Robbie on tour, as long as the music and Gary's main vocals are still there, it's another thing to invest in an album that gives me no pleasure. I will never ever pay for Robbie's sub-average vocals, cause I usually listen to music to relax, not to want to bang my head against a wall.

I don't even like Take That but can appreciate how much better they sound without Robbie Williams, who uses them as a platform for more fame when they are more popular than him to feed his ego. He is just awful and Take That shouldn't let him use them like that when they are better off without him anyway.

I've constantly had difficult logging onto the forum - so have had to set up a new account. Dylandog is no more :(

 

Like it or not Gary is the indispensable member of the band. It would be impossible in my view for the others to continue without him;firstly because of his song writing ability and secondly because to a great extent he represents 'the sound' of TT as the recognised lead singer. Performance wise the others are on a par or supersede him, but as a singer he's unquestionably the most important component of the band. Most people would concede that Gary is a superior singer and as much as I love Mark, Howard and Jason they don't have his vocal ability or musicality. As a solo artist Gary is surprisingly good, Kath. I've seen him twice and he really was excellent, especially in the stripped back sections where he plays the piano and in the acoustic sets. His pitch /tone is very good and consistent. His review rating on Ticketmaster is on a par, if not higher than TT, and reviewers (mostly the men) comment on how they didn't expect him to be that good a live performer.

 

My comments aren't meant to negate the importance of the others. Much of the bands success is down to the dynamics between the four and the atmosphere they generate on stage which transfers to the crowd. One of the major problems with Rob's return is ' his personality.' Whilst it's been vital in terms of his solo success it simply doesn't translate well within the group. There's a reason why Rob is so successful as an artist and that's due in no small part to his larger than life persona. Charismatic leads can work, with Mick Jagger and Freddie Mercury two such examples, but TT aren't that kind of act. They work because of the harmony and balance of it's members. Gary may be the lead singer, but he's a quiet presence and doesn't overshadow the others.

 

As for the sound, Rob himself has admitted that harmonies don't come naturally to him. It's particularly noticeable in live performances because there's an edge and harshness to their sound which isn't as noticeable when the band is a foursome or threesome. The debate will continue to rage on even though as a fan base we have no say on TT's direction. Ultimately the band decides - and they want Rob back, even though I've no doubt it's for a short time only.

 

By the way does anyone know when the tour is scheduled? I've read it's now 2018 because of Rob's commitments - I'll make no comment on that :) In my view it should be next year - they've already stretched the 25th anniversary date beyond what anyone would consider plausible!!

 

Personally, I prefer Take That without Robbie, Take That were at their best when it was 4. I always felt Robbie only came back last time as Take That were at the peak of their popularity, Robbie at that time wasn't. Im talking mainly the UK market. This time round its more of a level playing field as both have lost popularity but both remain popular at the same time. The success they achieve this round will be interesting to see. The Greatest Hits era that will come is always going to do well as they have more than enough strong material that fans both past and present love and the Greatest Hits tour will do very well. As a cd release its hard to call as Greatest Hits do not do aswell as they once did due to the change in the music industry but at the same time it should manage double platinum.

 

In the meantime im looking forward to the new Take That album as 3 to see what sound they come up this time round. While I think the magic in Take That is having the members together I have to say if Gary was the one that left I couldn't see Take That continuing, he plays such a huge part it just wouldnt work. I know everyone is important but Gary going would be a disaster and Take That would never work. Im lucky I have enjoyed most of Garys solo work and I still enjoy all his solos albums and I would go to see him in tour, overall I do prefer Take That and I know would always prefer a Take That concert to a Gary concert.

In relation to the anniversary tour there's no way they can adopt the same approach as Progress. They need to drop Rob's solo stuff. The tour has to be TT music only, and that means that Rob will have to sing their most recent work, such as RTW, Patience, Shine, GD and TD. There's simply no way it would work if post 2005 music was omitted.

 

I'll be interesting to see how it pans out and if Rob takes a dominant role in any of the newer songs. If he doesn't he'll be relegated to a bit part because aside from Everything Changes and CIBM he didn't really feature in any significant way vocally. I can see them bringing back the Beatles segment which would allow them to all take an equal part. It worked quite well on the Ultimate Tour ( although no doubt Beatles fans would beg to differ). The Flood with feature of course but I think there will be an emphasis on their earlier work.

 

I've just read a piece stating that Gary took a year to persuade Rob to come on board and his involvement may not take in the whole tour. This would be a disaster if true. Although not a Rob fan if he's signed up then it should really be for the full tour- otherwise it will be disjointed. As for Gary I don't understand his insistence on Rob's involvement, it reeks of a 'cap in hand' approach and desperation on his part. Given that Jay has left and Rob wasn't overly keen to re-join I actually would have ditched the premise of an anniversary tour and simply gone on tour to promote a new album whilst releasing a GH album in recognition of their time in the music industry.

I've constantly had difficult logging onto the forum - so have had to set up a new account. Dylandog is no more :(

 

You know I had the same problem. I logged out, forgot my password, but when I requested a reminder (about 25 times) nothing came. Luckily I still had Phil's email and he was able to reset a password for me.