People like us and Thrill me are excellent!

To pick up on the point you made a few posts ago Milly. The problem as I see it is that Mark doesn't have a commercial sound. Most of his songs are interesting, but solo wise he doesn't have that melodic and catchy quality to his work. We don't know what songs he's written for TT on his own so it's very difficult to comment on his input for the band.

 

Eliot and Gary are grounded in classic pop and it shows in their writing. I would also contend that Eliot and Gary are better musicians in terms of their ability to play an instrument, although that isn't a prerequisite for being a great song writer.

 

I would contend that Mark has had greater input in the song writing over the past 5 years ( although this is conjecture on my part, and somewhat contradicts what I said above ) Whether that's a good thing or not depends on one's taste? From my perspective I'm grounded in a classical pop sound, so I generally prefer Gary's output.

Mark indeed does not have a commercial sound. His music comes across as experimental to me. That said, i have enjoyed some of his solo work and often feel Green Man was reasonably commercial but totally under performed. Child was a great debut solo single, but i did expect it to have achieved more success.

 

Gary's solo work is certainly more commercial and Since I Saw You Last was and remains a wonderful album and better than some of Take That's studio albums. I do believe Gary will release further solo material but will remain with Take That.

 

I fully agree on the comment that Eliot and Gary are grounded in classic pop as it shines in their output.

Edited March 21, 20169 yr by pippa

It seems that Andy McCluskey wrote the music for Thrill Me and Gary wrote the lyrics.

 

I don't want to offend anyone, but, to me, the TT sound is more commercial than Gary's solo work.

I can understand why people say that Gary's output is more commercial than Mark's, but, for some reason, I always interpret it as something pejorative. To me, Gary's solo work - be it SISYL or the musicals/movies soundtracks - sounds anything but commercial. I know that personal/meaningful and commercial are not mutually exclusive, but the term always cheapens the product for me.

 

I would agree with both of you that Mark is more experimental in his music, but I get the feeling that he's experimenting simply because he still hasn't quite found his lane, whereas Gary has always loved being pop and has unashamedly asserted it since he was a kid. Now, like you said, dylandog, it's only a matter of taste. I, for one, prefer pop MUSIC (I can't strengthen the word enough - music as in opposed to noise), but there are obviously people who prefer Mark's approach to music and even his voice.

Edited March 21, 20169 yr by milly

Jay, I really like Thrill Me. It's very catchy and has an authentic 80's vibe.

 

I agree that Gary will release another solo album and for that matter so will Mark. I don't think Gary will ever leave TT, regardless of his other ventures. He appears totally committed to the band this time around - and he must know if he leaves that's simply the end.

 

In relation to Mark I imagine that the financial gains from being in TT fund his solo albums. Studio time, promotion etc is very expensive and the huge amount of money made from TT must keep his solo work afloat. I remember after TT split first time around Mark plowed a significant amount of his own money into his solos stuff and he commented on how expensive it was. I know he has some kind of production deal with the label but his sales have been so poor; there's no way he's made a profit from his solo stuff.

I honestly don't see Mark putting out another solo album, unless it's to get some form of critical acclaim. But I don't know if it's worth the embarrassment of being called a flop again.

He practically gave away for free the tickets to his last tour - I doubt he made any profit.

 

Is nobody loving Determination? I feel like getting up to dance when I hear it :dance:

I love the music to Thrill Me - surprised Gary wasn't involved in that side of it because he tends to find the music easier than lyrics. Maybe commercial is the wrong word to use, and in relation to Gary is doesn't equate to a lack of substance but simply that his compositions tend to appeal to more people. As you say Mark is more experimental and it doesn't capture the public's interest in the same way. Mark has spoken about his love for bands such as Muse. whereas Gary's rooted firmly in classical MOR pop. They are very different in that respect and this shows in their solo output.

 

I still think that Mark will bring out another album - I really do. He's quite committed to his solo sound which is far removed from TT's. What I find puzzling is the lack of interest in his solo work. As part of TT he's always been one, if not, the most popular member but that doesn't translate to his solo work. The fact that so few people turned up for his solo tour is rather strange in my view and I can't quite balance out the two. He's a committed performer and always gives 100% whether that be as part of TT or on his own. Sadly I would never go and see Mark solo because quite simply I couldn't listen to him for two hours - to me his voice is marmite and it isn't to my taste over a long period of time, although I love his interpretation of some songs such as We All Fall Down.

I can never see Mark achieving solo success. He has released solo work on the back of winning Celebrity Big Brother, has released when Take That were huge, released when Take That split and its never truly happened for him. Take That are not as popular now as when he last released a solo effort so i could see future releases performing even poorer than his previous ones.

 

Gary has so much different work under his belt musically which makes him very versatile and due to that he can deliver such a wide range of work.

I would have thought too that Gary was involved in composing the music for Thrill Me, but, according to this article, he wasn't: http://www.digitalspy.com/music/news/a7875...ream-come-true/

The funniest part of the article is at the end (it just popped in my head when I read Pippa's last sentence :D ):

"Finally, Gary said that the project was a "dream" and that looking at his heroes fills him with excitement for his own career: "It gives me hope, it really does!"

Andy responded: "If we sold as many records as him, we'd have hope as well!""

 

As pippa said, Gary has done so much work over the years in so many musical areas that his coming years are covered - he won't be out of work very soon even if TT were to split up (which I doubt will happen).

 

I'm with Pippa on this one. I can't see it happening for Mark at this moment. Thanks to TT, he's had much more chances than any other artist in his position, but, for some reason, it just didn't work. His fans are TT fans mostly and they are used to a certain sound; or, as you pointed out, dylandog, Mark's solo music is just too removed from what TT fans like. I think that's where the contradiction and his "curse" lie.

Edited March 21, 20169 yr by milly

That boat has sailed for Mark, as you say. He's had numerous opportunities for commercial success but it hasn't happened. I think he knows that - but I think it's still important for him to get his sound out there. He obviously loves what he does - and I applaud him for his determination to produce the music he loves, irrespective of it's success.

 

Gary's been in his element producing this album and it seems to have been a labour of love for him. Can you imagine how fab it must be to meet so many of your idols from your child hood :)

Too bad my idols were cartoons characters :lol: : the prince from The Little Mermaid, Mamoru from Sailor Moon :lol:

Gary was smarter for choosing better idols :P I'm really happy for him. He seems to be in a good place lately and that transpires not only on his face, but also in his work.

Edited March 21, 20169 yr by milly

Yes, happiness can bring out great results. That said, some songwriters write and produce wonderful material when in the opposite state. I believe Gary hit a brick wall songwriting after the utter flop of 12 months 11 days. I think if he had been able to write and not have writers block at that time he could have created some great music. That said, such work would most likely have never seen the light of day as no one would work with him at that time.

 

In hindsight, i would question was 12 months 11 days flopping so hard the best thing to happen to him. At the time, no, but would the work of the last 10-12 years have ever happened if that album wasn't such a disaster commercially. I firmly believe it made Gary appreciate his success much more second time around also potentially one of the reasons we got Take That back.

 

 

Poor 12 months 11 days, it pains me how hard it flopped as I still enjoy the album. I am glad Gary included songs from it on his solo tour. Its such a shame such a great song such as Lie to me was never a hit as its one of Gary's finest songs. As I have often said if this was on Beautiful Word and released as a single it would have been a hit.

 

Gary really defied the odds career wise, in the late 90's no one would have ever thought he would have such a huge career ahead of him and no one ever though either he or Take That would have a bigger career ahead of them than they had previously had. Kylie was another one who made a huge comeback when many thought she was finished. Ive always wanted a Kylie and Take That duet (dreamworld only I know!!!)

 

 

Gary on This Morning talking about Fly:

And an album review: http://linkis.com/thisisnotretro.com/7MN8D

 

Pippa, you're absolutely right. Had Gary's story gone otherwise, he may have never changed and become the incredible artist he is nowadays. According to his sayings, he was getting a bit cocky in the 90s; I guess what happened - although hugely unfair in my opinion, but apparently necessary - taught him the lesson of humility and gave him the chance to experience real life and important matters, cause, until then, he had been practically married to his music and career and he needed to rediscover the true meaning of life.

 

To this day, I still like 12M 11D, but, unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever have justice for it. Lie to Me and Walk are great songs that could have been hits for any artist but Gary. Everything that happened around that time "cursed" the album and, no matter how good it might have been, it would still have flopped for Gary.

But, had 12M 11D not flopped, we might not have had SISYL or FN or Fly, all 3 of which are incredible albums. So, I guess everything happens for a reason in life.

Edited March 24, 20169 yr by milly

12 months 11 days in many senses defined his career. What happened with that album and that particular era of his life defined the career he has now. I would wholeheartedly agree it was hugely unfair (and Robbie adding petrol to fire made things worse) what happened at that time. The press were all over him and it was negative report after negative report. I can only imagine how hard all this was for him, but, it cemented his life with Dawn.

 

This made Gary more humble, made him appreciate things more, taught him been famous isn’t everything and also taught him that other things in life are more important. I do remember Gary saying in an interview a few years back, maybe around the Circus era that he is very aware it could all end tomorrow. I believe he would have never thought that could happen in the first era of his career.

 

People who deride Gary and post very nasty comments about him - and I can tell you there were some on twitter today following his brief appearance on This Morning seem to have little or no understanding of the public humiliation he faced during the 90's. Although I wasn't a TT fan at that time I distinctly remember watching The Brits and hearing the humiliating comments directed his way.

 

Gary hasn't displayed any trace of malice towards those who made his life very difficult during that period, of which there were more than a few, and one in particular. He does appear to polarize people - with the tax issue still fresh in some people's minds. Today for instance there were comments about this and some questioning his right to make an album with the 80's artists. He seems to be an individual people like to shoot down for some reason and that can't be easy for him. It has made him the man he is today - and I've no doubt it's strengthened his resolve and his appreciation for the second chance he's had. I 'get' that some people don't like his music, but he's committed to his craft and it was evident that he is held in high regard by the 80's artists he's collaborated with for the Fly album. In the fickle world of pop there are many, many artists who care little for the music they produce - Gary isn't one of those and he deserves the success he's achieved the second time around.

Dylandog, i 100% agree, there is nothing in your post i could even slightly disagree with.

Good thing I had to work the past few days and I didn't have time for twitter, cause I have a penchant of getting into arguments with idiots.

The tax thing is really starting to grate on me now. Whether he did it under advice or not, the money has been paid back, but it seems like haters can't move on. I don't know why nobody mentions Adele being involved in similar tax schemes or lots of other celebs. It seems that Gary's biggest flaw is having manners and not talking back.

And I certainly can't understand people who can't dissociate between the person and the artist. I dislike lots of artists as persons, but I can still acknowledge their musical talent. When it comes to Gary, all attacks inevitably lead to his dismissal as a musician, which I find very unfair.

So many others have done the same as Gary but it appears Gary will take the flak for everyone. One Direction are embroiled in some tax scheme and the press have barely touched in it. Im tired of it now too.

I saw something about 1D on tumblr, but I haven't seen any article so far. 2 years ago, it took literally only a few minutes for the whole press to pick on Gary's involvement- I use the term loosely, because I have no doubt in my mind that there had been a plot for a while and the papers had just been waiting for the right time to link Gary's name to something scandalous and what better time than after the documentary that was propelling him to new heights?!