For the record, I'm not against Catholic people... and thankfully many churches are trying their best to reform. The church I grew up attending had a very liberal priest who for years welcomed everyone to his church, led tremendous charitable endeavors, and taught tolerance and reason. And what does he get? Fired, because some hardline bishop comes in and doesn't agree. No, not fired... as Grimly said... he was "moved" to some tiny little congregation in the middle of nowhere where he could do no "harm."

 

And then they WONDERED why people stopped going to church!! MADDENING.

Low attendence to church is a global phenomenon in the western world, not only in the catholic church. I read somewhere that in some escandinavian countries, even tough 80 to 90% of the people are baptized in a lutheran church, more then 50% of them don´t even believe in God and only 5% attend to church services. It seems that they are all going to shut the doors sooner or later and religion will become past in our western world, unless islam crosses over here, which I hope not.

Probably the person who lifted the allegation against the Muslim Cleric would already have been exploded with everyone else around her.

 

Again with the stereotypes of Muslim people eh DF...??? <_< I was referring to the possible Media reaction in this country, there wouldn't be too much restraint shown let's face it.... And frankly, I reckon that if there were similar allegations made about a Muslim Cleric, the more likely thing to happen would be that there wouldn't even be a trial, just straight to sentencing by the local community, if you get my meaning....

For the record, I'm not against Catholic people...

 

Me neither, I was brought up as one, but rejected the teaching when I was a teenager because I saw the sheer hypocrisy that was inherent in it... I think the people themselves are genuinely good people who want to do good, and I am sure that there are individual Priests who are sincere and want to change things for the better, but let's face it, the more liberal and sincere Priests are never gonna allowed to be in a position to be able to actually reform the Catholic church, those in power in the Vatican have too much vested interest to allow it, as your example so tragically illustrated.

 

I think people are just gullible at the end of the day and a bit too willing to trust the Catholic Church without question and therefore are easily exploited by this evil institution who just uses their good nature to further their own ends.... To me, that's really the worst thing about organised religion, the way it uses the good will and trust of the people that follow it and just exploit it....

 

The Catholic Church will NEVER give the faith back to the people, it enjoys control too much....

Again with the stereotypes of Muslim people eh DF...??? <_< I was referring to the possible Media reaction in this country, there wouldn't be too much restraint shown let's face it.... And frankly, I reckon that if there were similar allegations made about a Muslim Cleric, the more likely thing to happen would be that there wouldn't even be a trial, just straight to sentencing by the local community, if you get my meaning....

 

No, it´s not stereotype, nobody dares to make a bad coment about islam or anything related on the media because they know that would be like a death sentence for them.

No, it´s not stereotype, nobody dares to make a bad coment about islam or anything related on the media because they know that would be like a death sentence for them.

 

Are you living on Mars...? Haven't you noticed the various Tabloid slaggings off of the Muslim community....? It says plenty bad. Some of it justified, but a lot of it just needlessly offensive and badly researched...

Are you living on Mars...? Haven't you noticed the various Tabloid slaggings off of the Muslim community....? It says plenty bad. Some of it justified, but a lot of it just needlessly offensive and badly researched...

 

From what I´ve seen they´re just reflecting the facts, sometimes with the typical tabloid exagerations. It´s not their fault if 95% of the terrorist in the world are muslim, and if every ocidental country that has a large muslim imigration community is facing problems with it. Plus, the tabloids are not slagging their religion at all.

It´s not their fault if 95% of the terrorist in the world are muslim,

 

What the hell do you base that on then....? Sorry, but you are totally wrong... What's going on in places like Iraq and Afghanistan just now is CIVIL WAR!! Let's not pretend otherwise.... And, sorry, but the biggest killers on the globe just now are the so-called "Western Democracies"and Israel..... We've murdered over 150,000 people in the past four or five years between us, even Bin Laden couldn't hope for that high a body count in his wildest dreams.... Something to be really proud of innit....? <_< You think just because Terrorism is perpetrated by a State that it is not Terroism...? Dont be stupid...

What the hell do you base that on then....? Sorry, but you are totally wrong... What's going on in places like Iraq and Afghanistan just now is CIVIL WAR!! Let's not pretend otherwise.... And, sorry, but the biggest killers on the globe just now are the so-called "Western Democracies"and Israel..... We've murdered over 150,000 people in the past four or five years between us, even Bin Laden couldn't hope for that high a body count in his wildest dreams.... Something to be really proud of innit....? <_< You think just because Terrorism is perpetrated by a State that it is not Terroism...? Dont be stupid...

 

And what does it has to do with religion or specifically the catholic church? You´re mixing things up. No matter how many people have died because of the western attacks, at least every 4 years we have the right to kick the ass of anyone who is in the power, and if we don´t do is because we don´t want it. At least our women are treated like equal human beings and not like a freak animal who has to cover the entire face and cannot go out without the permission of her husband. We can go to a church, a sinagogue or just be in the internet writing in a blog on how detestable the church is and God doesn´t exist... And when you rape a girl you know that it´s YOU who is going to be punished and not the victim, this is called civilization, I don´t think Israelis or americans killing palestines is worse then an Iraqi president killing his OWN people. Have you ever thought that the islamic world is made of 1 billion people, a large part of which is at this moment STARVING because of the corruption of their own governments, and there are millions of muslim women that are treated like $h!t, and the worse of that is they don´t have ANY perpective of getting any better then that because that is their system and it´s considered an offense to change it.

 

And the fact that 95% of the terrorists in the world are muslim is a phrase I quoted from a magazine National Geographic years ago, in an article which was written by a MUSLIM who was mourning about this sad fact. Westerns kill for money and for oil, easterns kill because of that and also because of religion.

And what does it has to do with religion or specifically the catholic church? You´re mixing things up. No matter how many people have died because of the western attacks, at least every 4 years we have the right to kick the ass of anyone who is in the power, and if we don´t do is because we don´t want it. At least our women are treated like equal human beings and not like a freak animal who has to cover the entire face and cannot go out without the permission of her husband. We can go to a church, a sinagogue or just be in the internet writing in a blog on how detestable the church is and God doesn´t exist... And when you rape a girl you know that it´s YOU who is going to be punished and not the victim, this is called civilization, I don´t think Israelis or americans killing palestines is worse then an Iraqi president killing his OWN people. Have you ever thought that the islamic world is made of 1 billion people, a large part of which is at this moment STARVING because of the corruption of their own governments, and there are millions of muslim women that are treated like $h!t, and the worse of that is they don´t have ANY perpective of getting any better then that because that is their system and it´s considered an offense to change it.

 

And the fact that 95% of the terrorists in the world are muslim is a phrase I quoted from a magazine National Geographic years ago, in an article which was written by a MUSLIM who was mourning about this sad fact. Westerns kill for money and for oil, easterns kill because of that and also because of religion.

 

Umm, well I do believe that it was George Bush himself who used the word "crusade", and every time he does a speech he always ends it by saying "God Bless America", so don't fukkin' tell me that religion does not play a part in what he does, because frankly that insults my and our American posters' collective intelligence, the whole notion of the 'separation of Church and State' exists only in theory, not in reality, and if you look in Central and Eastern European countries, it's even less of a reality (the Catholic Church enjoys an unbelievable amount of influence in countries like Poland).... And if you think that Christianity is so bloody civilised and forward-looking, I refer you to what's going on in Africa just now where the Catholic Church is growing in infuence and power, particularly in places like Uganda where the despot in control there is a Catholic zealot who is messing up education programmes and safe-sex campaigns.... A large part of AFRICA is starving as well DF, and it aint happening in the Islamic States.....

 

And a vote every four years to choose which upper middle class Christian WHITE GUY can run the country??? That's DEMOCRACY???? pmsl....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

But we're kinda digressing here arent we....?

George Bush has joined a methodist church just months before the elections. Obviously, he KNOWS he has to affiliated to some christian chuch to be elected (in all USA history there was only 1 catholic president, and virtually all others were filiated to traditional protestant denominations). However, he was never a particularly religious person. And I don´t see a problem in electing a white christian guy in a country where the majority of the people are white christians, why would the elect a muslim or an atheist. Not that I think presidents should be chosen by religion, but it´s clear that the ones from the predominant religion will always have a vantage, or would you be comfortable having a president or a prime minister who thinks it´s "normal" to be married with 12 wives and thinks killing a pagan is completely justifiable by the laws of God...

George Bush has joined a methodist church just months before the elections. Obviously, he KNOWS he has to affiliated to some christian chuch to be elected (in all USA history there was only 1 catholic president, and virtually all others were filiated to traditional protestant denominations). However, he was never a particularly religious person. And I don´t see a problem in electing a white christian guy in a country where the majority of the people are white christians, why would the elect a muslim or an atheist. Not that I think presidents should be chosen by religion, but it´s clear that the ones from the predominant religion will always have a vantage, or would you be comfortable having a president or a prime minister who thinks it´s "normal" to be married with 12 wives and thinks killing a pagan is completely justifiable by the laws of God...

 

No, I'd be more comfortable if a President or PM would actually mean what they say when they want a fully secular society where Church and State are actually separate entities and NOT be seeing to favour one faith over another, whether or not the majority is Christian or not... Religion has absolutely no place in politics, or indeed in education, as far as I'm concerned.... And whether Bush himself is particularly religious or not is irrelevant when he is allowing himself to be unduly influenced by the Evangelical religious far-right, who really ARE a minority, even in Christian circles....