re: This business of a petition for a 2nd referendum.

 

How high would the Leave margin have to have been before the result have been accepted, however grudgingly, by Remain voters?

 

3-2?

2-1?

3-1?

 

If not even then, why not?

From the Daily Mirror last month

 

Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

 

The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

 

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

Bye. You'll have to apply to join the EU and will have the Euro as a condition of entry. You 'll be after Turkey, so maybe Year 3000. :D

Scotland would not be after Turkey. Several countries have already joined despite applying after Turkey's original application. Turkey has satisfied a magnificent one of 30-odd conditions for membership. Scotland, by being part of the UK, will have satisfied almost all of them without having to do anything.

If he'd resigned with immediate effect then we'd have Osborne now as Acting PM. No thanks.

That was not what I meant and you should now that, I thought you're an adult.

I meant that he should resign as soon as possible to hand over the committed decision to the one who can start the preparation to leave the EU as soon as possible. This is also your interest.

That was not what I meant and you should now that, I thought you're an adult.

I meant that he should resign as soon as possible to hand over the committed decision to the one who can start the preparation to leave the EU as soon as possible. This is also your interest.

 

I know that but it takes time to elect a new Tory leader and PM if there's a contested election as the shortlist of two goes to the entire membership. Takes weeks. Can't see the party just crowning Boris or even May. Practically the timing of the Autumn conference is about right although I think he should trigger Article 51 now.

Edited June 26, 20169 yr by Common Sense

Scotland would not be after Turkey. Several countries have already joined despite applying after Turkey's original application. Turkey has satisfied a magnificent one of 30-odd conditions for membership. Scotland, by being part of the UK, will have satisfied almost all of them without having to do anything.

 

Regarding Turkey's application - they actually have the EU over a barrel. Since when did conditions mean anything for the EU - Greece famously 'cooked the books' to join the Euro in 2001. We all know what happened after that!

There won't be a 2nd referendum. That isn't how democracy works - there were however a significant number who voted to remain, especially in Scotland, and in London - and this should be respected and taken into consideration when the negotiations are made for the exit from the EU. Article 50 has not been invoked, and even when it does it will take 2 years until the official exit. By resigning and putting a leadership contest into play, Cameron has effectively delayed and ducked out of any committed decision and we may have get to vote in a general election in the way that we wish to redefine our relationship with the EU post exit before talks start. Long way to go yet..

 

The markets won't like this obviously, but I think it is the sensible option rather than rushing into it.

 

It's not how democracy works, but it's an example of how sometimes it cannot work. Making a life time decision on a margin of 2% is absolutely ridiculous. I don't think there will be a 2nd referendum unless a general election is called early and it is part of a party manifesto (most likely Labour, but they need to get rid of Corbyn first).

 

Chris, why should announce our membership right now? It is absolutely clear the Leave campaign have no idea what is the best plan for Britain. It is effectively signing our own death warrant. I think we will need 3 years minimum to get our shit in order.

.

 

Chris, why should announce our membership right now? It is absolutely clear the Leave campaign have no idea what is the best plan for Britain. It is effectively signing our own death warrant. I think we will need 3 years minimum to get our shit in order.

 

 

If we trigger Article 50 or is it 51 now, it would give us two years. Would stop all this speculation and now UKIP whispers that MP's will ignore the result and won't take us out.

I don't think a second ref will happen. But the fact so many exiers are already saying they regret their choice, feel lied to, didn't think their vote would matter and that it was just 'protest' vote...I do think this needs to be taken into account with the government given 16+ million people DID vote to stay and the fact he country already feels like a shambles despite us not even being near leaving the EU yet.

If we trigger Article 50 or is it 51 now, it would give us two years. Would stop all this speculation and now UKIP whispers that MP's will ignore the result and won't take us out.

 

It would also put a time limit on negotiations and massive pressure on the UK government. By not invoking it the ball is in our court and we get more time to reflect and discuss. The country is clearly very split and to simply push on with an exit without any consideration (and indeed a massive power vacuum in both the Conservative and Labour parties) would be a massive error!

I'm sorry Joe to say this but I don't feel at all sorry for those who have voted for leave and the next day they regret their decision. It doesn't matter if it was protest votes or not they should take responsibility for their votes and stick to them. They are not children anymore to say this day I play with this toy the next day rather with the other one.

What happens then in another week, do they change their minds again?

Are you worried or why did you bring up this?

I'm quite sure there will not be a second referendum and anyway if the leave votes would have lost, I'm sure you would be very frustrated and questioned the results.

A couple of weeks ago the populist candidate for the presidentship in Austria attacked on court the results because he lost by a tiny margin against the green candidate. This is democracy.

 

Your attitude is a bit like in the kindergarten: "nananana we won you lost, get over it and shot your mouth!"

 

If Remain had won, I would have been very disappointed, but I would have accepted the result. However, that wouldn't have changed my belief that the EU is a very bad entity.

 

As for my attitude, do you seriously believe that the Remain camp wouldn't have been gloating had they won, and condemning as anti-democratic anyone who questioned the result?

 

Farage said to be furious that it sounds like he won't be involved in any discussions with Europe.

I'm sorry Joe to say this but I don't feel at all sorry for those who have voted for leave and the next day they regret their decision. It doesn't matter if it was protest votes or not they should take responsibility for their votes and stick to them. They are not children anymore to say this day I play with this toy the next day rather with the other one.

What happens then in another week, do they change their minds again?

 

 

Some even saying they voted out "for a joke" or "as a laugh" but thought the overall result would be to remain. Are they adults or what?

Edited June 26, 20169 yr by Common Sense

Farage said to be furious that it sounds like he won't be involved in any discussions with Europe.

 

Firstly- He isn't an MP, so speaks for no constituents in Britain.

 

Secondly - He isn't part of the party in government. Therefore it is right he isn't involved.

Some even saying they voted out "for a joke" or "as a laugh" but thought the overall result would be to remain. Are they adults or what?

For me referendum and voting is a very serious thing. I cannot do anything with such attitude.

If we trigger Article 50 or is it 51 now, it would give us two years. Would stop all this speculation and now UKIP whispers that MP's will ignore the result and won't take us out.

 

Two years is an incredible amount of pressure, especially considering that most of Parliament is split on the decision and a general election is likely to be called. It's suicide. UKIP can moan all they like, regardless they're going to be disappointed when we still technically are part of the EU without reaping any of the rewards. Thankfully, the fishing and farming industry will save us. Not.

 

Farage said to be furious that it sounds like he won't be involved in any discussions with Europe.

 

He's not an MP. And whoever conduction the negotiations need to be Pro-EU. And not someone who is a bellend.

If Remain had won, I would have been very disappointed, but I would have accepted the result. However, that wouldn't have changed my belief that the EU is a very bad entity.

 

As for my attitude, do you seriously believe that the Remain camp wouldn't have been gloating had they won, and condemning as anti-democratic anyone who questioned the result?

For me personally gloating is a morally questionable behaviour so my point is very much valid when I questioned your attitude.

Also not acceptable for me the attitude to say "well the other party would have done the same so what?".

I'm trying to explain, in a calm & rational way, one of the reasons why people like me voted the way we did.

 

Now who is getting their facts wrong! The 2008 banking crisis was triggered by sub-prime lending in the US, There's nothing Britain could have done to prevent it.

Of course I was too young in 1975 to vote, but I *was* old enough to be aware of what was going on. As for peace in Europe - that has been due to NATO, not the EU.

 

I have never said I hate immigrants

I have never claimed 'everything will be fine' - my view has always been 'no pain, no gain'

Yes, the stock market initally fell, but it has already regained most of those loses

No-one claimed the value of the pound wouldn't drop - but it will recover, given time

It's far too early to say what sort of withdrawal deal we'll strike with the EU

So what if Scotland does choose independance?

2 years is the statutory minimum period

The last one was admitted nonsense, but it wasn't only the Leave side making exaggerated claims.

 

Despite Brexit, the stock market actually ended the week *higher*!

Given your sour grapes attitude, I'm tempted to say 'good riddance' - but I won't sink to your level.

 

The banking crisis was triggered by an invention created (sub prime) by BRITISH bankers working for JPM mOrgan. The ability of banks to become INVESTMENT banks of unrestricted size was created by Thatcher. The 2 facts created the perfect storm which allowed BRITISH banks to bankrupt the British economy AS WELL AS the world economy. Without the UK those events would not have happened. The world got along with banking fine for 70 years.

 

You were 7 in 1975 (unless your age profile is a lie).

 

Peace in Europe is due to being economically intertwined and all having something to lose AND Nato. When economies go tits up, people act irrationally and vote in extremists and all bets are off.

 

I never said YOU said all of those things. I said the LIARS in the Leave campaign said all of those things which convinced (say) 4% of the electorate to vote for them. You can't predict what will happen one way or the other, personally, and neither can I or anyone else with certainty. It is, however, likely that the experts who were right about the short term consequences (and the Leave campaign were wrong) will be proved right in the long run.

 

The things I listed were just examples of the instant result of leaving. I won;t bother going into the long-term consequences, they will all be fairly obvious over the next 2 years. They won't be good. You seem to think thats a price worth paying. Thats a selfish attitude and you wont necessarily be the one paying for it. Others will.

 

It's not sour grapes, it's frustration with people who willingly forced others into a disastrous event based on lies. That's the leaders of the lying Leavers campaign. Which is why I really WANT them to be the ones to sort out the mess so they cant blame it on anyone else when it goes tits up.

 

There will of course be no one left to blame and voters will be buggered.

 

 

 

 

 

I read back your explanation and it wasn't really calm and rational. I understand why you voted to leave, but what I see as someone who lives in another country and wasn't involved in this debate, the majority of the leave voters were not voting because of reasons you voted to leave the EU.

You don't have to say you don't have to claim anything, a simple behaviour is enough to express opinions.

 

I read a couple of comments from Hungarians who live in the UK. one of them wrote after the results day some of his colleagues were waiting for him at the office with transparents "GET OUT, GO TO YOUR COUNTRY" etc.

The populists always try to use the feelings of voters, dissatisfied people are always easier to catch by feeding their hatred towards something, but as soon as populists win, they cannot use this to fulfill the desire of their voters because their answers are never real solutions, or they are only lies, that's why populists are alwyas strong when they are in the opposition but they immediately will lose a lot of voters when they win.

You've already did sink to a lower level with this sentence by expressing that your vote was the winner vote and everything else is just "sour grape". This is psychology.

 

And anyway why do you think it is so bad that someone is frustrated and angry that his vote lost? You should rather at least try to convince him that he shouldn't be afraid but you did exactly the opposite and that what makes a lot of leave voters ignorant.

 

Thanks for the support Ben! :)

I don't think a second ref will happen. But the fact so many exiers are already saying they regret their choice, feel lied to, didn't think their vote would matter and that it was just 'protest' vote...I do think this needs to be taken into account with the government given 16+ million people DID vote to stay and the fact he country already feels like a shambles despite us not even being near leaving the EU yet.

 

 

Actually according to a ComRes poll, only 1% of those who voted Leave said they regretted making that decision, which would not have been enough to swing the vote had they either abstained or voted for the other side. What is more interesting however is that from the same survey, 4% of Remainers said that they were HAPPY with the results.

 

Disclaimer - although that poll has been floating around Twitter the past 24 hours, I should say that so far I haven't been able to find the original poll online yet.