God I'm so tired of these frickin people.

Call me small minded but I say we deport the bloomin lot of them - they do nothing but moan and protest about every little thing. If they don't like it they can **** off. I like interacting with people of different religions - here in Leicester the population is very diverse both in religion and culutre more diverse than anywhere else in the Midlands - but with all the viel c**p and now this plus that Mohammed cartoon - good God.

 

You are being rather small minded, and just what the hell are you talking about...??? The debate is about the OLYMPIC GAMES, what goes on in Leicester has utterly NO bearing on things whatsoever.... The debate is not about that, it's about the adverse effect that this could have on the athletes of many nations.

 

Oh, and by the way, you cant actually deport people who ARE ACTUALLY BORN HERE!!!! I've said it before and I'll bloody well say it again, you expect people of a different ethnic background to just be all 'smiley happy' about everything??? Should they somehow be so incredibly grateful to us that we let their grandparents come over to exploit their labour when the country was fukked after WW2...? Well, in that case I guess with my fourth generation Irish background (my great grandparents came over to work in the jute mills to escape abject POVERTY in Ireland..) I'd better keep my gob shut in all then...

 

Anyway.....How about we actually stay on topic here.....?

 

Isn't it astonishing how the veils are brought out to these women's convenience? .

 

Oh fer fugg's sake, dont you actully get it, SOME wear it (only about 3% so what is your problem anyway..?), SOME don't... Jeez, INDIVIDUAL CHOICES MATE!!! It aint fuggin' rocket science.... -_- I dont imagine the ones that do actually choose to wear it would tend to be the 'sporty' type anyway, most of the Muslim women I was going to Uni with were pursuing careers in BUSINESS, MATHEMATICS and LAW.......

Scott....

 

why SHOULDN'T ethnic minorities be 'smiley happy' about everything? I see no divide or unlevel playing field whatsoever with social benefits, jobs, education or housing.... they are on an equal par (if not preferable) position to Caucasians in Britain. What's the problem? What's caused this almighty chip on their shoulder? Is it the Muslim Council - the greatest perpetrators of social unrest this country has seen in decades - are feeding them the belief that Iraq was a war against Islam? Well - it's time for them to wake up and smell the coffee - it WASN'T. It was a war about OIL - not religion.

 

I feel it's a case of turning round and not biting, but snapping off - and swallowing - the hand that feeds you. A case of breaking off the arms that have openly welcomed you. And that, Scott, is simply not on. It's not a case of gratitude that they're allowed to live here whatsoever - it's a case of respecting the laws, principles and social guidelines that everyone ELSE in this country does.

 

The divisions I see with these communities and the rest of Britain are wholly self-created - are Muslims FORCED into these supposed 'ghettos'? Of course not - most Muslims OWN their own properties - it's a case of CHOOSING to live surrounded almost entirely by other Muslims, with as little contact as possible with non-Muslims (have a read of the Koran to see what Muslims feel about non-Muslims - it may open your eyes a little).

 

The segregation is wholly caused by their own actions and steadfast refusal to accept non-Muslims as equal human beings, Scott.

 

 

Scott....

 

why SHOULDN'T ethnic minorities be 'smiley happy' about everything? I see no divide or unlevel playing field whatsoever with social benefits, jobs, education or housing.... they are on an equal par (if not preferable) position to Caucasians in Britain. What's the problem? What's caused this almighty chip on their shoulder? Is it the Muslim Council - the greatest perpetrators of social unrest this country has seen in decades - are feeding them the belief that Iraq was a war against Islam? Well - it's time for them to wake up and smell the coffee - it WASN'T. It was a war about OIL - not religion.

 

I feel it's a case of turning round and not biting, but snapping off - and swallowing - the hand that feeds you. A case of breaking off the arms that have openly welcomed you. And that, Scott, is simply not on. It's not a case of gratitude that they're allowed to live here whatsoever - it's a case of respecting the laws, principles and social guidelines that everyone ELSE in this country does.

 

The divisions I see with these communities and the rest of Britain are wholly self-created - are Muslims FORCED into these supposed 'ghettos'? Of course not - most Muslims OWN their own properties - it's a case of CHOOSING to live surrounded almost entirely by other Muslims, with as little contact as possible with non-Muslims (have a read of the Koran to see what Muslims feel about non-Muslims - it may open your eyes a little).

 

The segregation is wholly caused by their own actions and steadfast refusal to accept non-Muslims as equal human beings, Scott.

 

Well, that aint how it's perceived, and frankly I do believe that this "war" is about good old-fashioned Imperialism, it is a return to the "Crusades"... The word "crusade" even came out of the mouth of old Dubya himself... How else can that be interpreted.....? A slip of the tongue?? Rubbish. Do you know how many checks and re-drafts are done of a Presidential address before the speech is actually given....? A mistake? Don't you believe it for a minute.....

 

Of course the pursuit of Oil does play an important part, controlling the material assets of the colony is one of the major tasks of the Imperialist power, but equally important is building up the normalisation process... ie, the Imperial Power goes in and normalises itself and its values amongst the colonies, "white man's burden" and all that.... Britain has done it in the past in India, Africa and Ireland, America seeks to do the same thing in the Middle East and beyond....

 

And I find it kinda ironic that you expect Muslims (or anyone else for that matter..) to bow down and respect the law when our own Govt clearly does not respect either the law of THIS land or international law....

 

And I still fail to see what British-born Muslims have to be 'grateful' for exactly (I mean, are YOU actually 'grateful' to this lying, corrupt Govt for getting us involved in a pointless war and spending BILLIONS of taxpayers - OUR - money...?)... Having their relatives in places like Iraq, Afghanistan or Lebanon bombed and killed....?

 

Anyway, we're digressing, and I've already lectured someone else on that, I reckon WE should stop it as well, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one mate..... :)

quids in, Scott - you're one of my favourite people to have a head to head with, you know - always intelligent, well thought out and rational.... thank God there's some life on these old Buzzjack boards yet, eh? ;)

sorry but whats the fuss?.....

 

every year theres an athletics championships, be it olympics, worlds, european,commonwealth .... and they are ALWAYS held in august, except when they are held in the southern hemisphere (such as sydney in y2k).

 

athletes are programmed by their schedule to peak in august, when european weather is most clement for outdoor sports (summer sports).

 

there was no muslim outcry this last august when the world championships were held..... why should it be any different in 2012? and there were many muslim countries participating.

 

sorry but summer games should be held traditionally when the weathers probably at its best, thats the way it has always been and for good reason, i see no reason whatsoever why we should change our tradition for a minority group. you cant take residence in a country and expect the indiginous population to bow down to your rules.

sorry but whats the fuss?.....

 

 

there was no muslim outcry this last august when the world championships were held..... why should it be any different in 2012? and there were many muslim countries participating.

 

 

Which kinda leads me to wonder who it is that's instigating this outcry and who is perpetuating it...? I haven't actually heard of ANY of the 3000+ Muslim athletes themselves making any public statements saying that it's actually gonna be a problem... And I've yet to hear of any Nation's sport's governing bodies say anything about it either... Pakistani cricketers seem to have NO problems thrashing England at any time of the year.... :lol:

 

Why do I get the feeling that a lot of this is Media bullsh!t......?

 

I have to agree with everyone who's disagreeing with Scott.

They can't have everything changed to suit them, it has always been held at the same time we shouldn't change it for them, if they get one thing they want they'll want a whole lot more. And Graham's right they do a lot of fukking whining.

And Graham's right they do a lot of fukking whining.

 

Well so would you complain if your entire cultural identity was being dragged through the mud on a daily basis by a bunch of right-wing, racist arseholes calling themselves 'journalists'.... And I doubt you'd be too happy either if you were at university or college being arbitrarily spied on, having your home raided and destroyed by 100 armed coppers on incredibly dodgy 'intelligence'; or indeed sitting on a plane, minding your own business talking to your mate in your native language and then being chucked off for no good fukkin' reason....

 

I dont think anyone should have to tolerate this. In the 70s/80s it was the Irish on the receiving end of this sort of bullsh!t, now it's Muslims....

 

Scott.... your job as PR for the Muslim Council seems to be going to your head, you know.... ;)

Scott.... your job as PR for the Muslim Council seems to be going to your head, you know.... ;)

 

:lol: :lol:

 

I doubt they'd hire me, I dont go to a Mosque.... I just got to know quite a few Muslims at Uni, and they were all decent enough people... I also have relatives in Ireland who were harrassed by the RUC continually during the Troubles just cos they lived in the Catholic areas, they had nowt to do with the IRA at all, but it didn't stop the harrassement.... When you see the same mistakes being made now, it's really hard to let it pass without comment...

Dont bother even replying to that ignorant tosser Starlight.. I deleted his/her post..

 

Of course Muslim athletes will be at a disadvantage, Christ, they have to FAST all day, that means no food, no water, no energy supplements until sundown, how can anyone realistically compete...? One cannot simply say 'well dont bother competing then', that's a rather stupid answer to the problem, the Olympic Games are there to be inclusive to everyone not just the Christian world, so everyone has to be accommodated, the Olympic Committee cannot just tell a billion people all over the world to 'feck off'. If one is talking about a quarter of the total amount of athletes being potentially affected by this, then something has to be done, you can't just tell 3000+ out of 12,000 athletes to just 'not bother', it's hardly an insignificant amount. Ramadan isn't like just missing church for a Sunday here or there, it is something that affects Muslims 24/7 for a WHOLE MONTH, so it's a bit more drastic when you're talking about athletes who continually need to take on board fluids.

 

And you are quite correct, it would have an adverse effect on a fair few of UK athletes who are Muslim...

 

Well, as far as I know the christian and jewish religion also have comandaments not to work at a certain day of the week... for some it´s Sunday, for others it´s Saturday, but you don´t see the big events giving a damn about that. It´s not like muslims will die if they eat something on Ramadan... The Olympics started in the western world, so if easterns want to take part, its them who have to adapt themselves to it, and not the event adapt to them. Plus, the islamic rules don´t allow people to wear some type of clothes, specially the ones that are used for swimming, so if their religion is not compatible with the event rules, they should simply not take part.

 

Well, as far as I know the christian and jewish religion also have comandaments not to work at a certain day of the week... for some it´s Sunday, for others it´s Saturday, but you don´t see the big events giving a damn about that. It´s not like muslims will die if they eat something on Ramadan... The Olympics started in the western world, so if easterns want to take part, its them who have to adapt themselves to it, and not the event adapt to them. Plus, the islamic rules don´t allow people to wear some type of clothes, specially the ones that are used for swimming, so if their religion is not compatible with the event rules, they should simply not take part.

 

The Olympics started out in Ancient Greece, which is closer to the Arab World geographically speaking (Greece being very near Turkey and all..)... And they had sod all to do with Christianity, the Olympics were started to pay tribute to the ancient Greek Gods, so it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Western, Christian traditions, it is a Pagan tradition (like most other things the Christians came along and nicked)...

 

The Olympics were merely appropriated by the Christian West, so dont be so arrogant as to presume that it in any way 'belongs' to Western or Christian Civilisation....

But Muslims make up a tiny percentage of the athletes competing - why should a colossal event like the Olympics be moved to accommodate a small percentage of competitors? Absolutely not. Totally absurd, Scott.

 

As for the 'second best' athletes - are there REALLY that many top class athletes from Libya? From Morocco? Come on, Scott - there simply aren't. Plus, these countries not tuning in - do you really, honestly think there'll be a huge loss of revenue or viewing figures? I don't.

 

And the woman on TV this morning - I did what I do whenever I hear anyone talking behind a veil, the same as with sunglasses...I switched off. I refuse to talk and certainly listen to people who cover their faces. It's the absolute height of rudeness. For once, Jack Straw was a bloody hero the other week - let's hope his words become law pretty soon. I'm with the 93% of people who agree with him - veils are not acceptable in Britain. Offensive, disgusting and repulsive. I, for one, would quite happily see these women covered up - but in their countries of origin, thankyou very much. If they were born in this country - well, they should know better. How fukkin presumptious of them to assume all men's eyes would be on them - revolting. They don't only offend me - they disgust me. In fact, I think people should question and challenge EVERY woman they see wearing one.

 

As for Muslim women competing... hmm... I'd imagine the long jump, for one, would be more than difficult in a veil.... :rolleyes: Isn't it astonishing how the veils are brought out to these women's convenience? More to the point with this, though - how many countries will be willing to compete alongside Muslim nations? That's surely the biggest problem, and I'd imagine it'll be an even bigger one by the time these Olympics occur..... I wouldn't be at all surprised if these countries, if things carry on as they are, are omitted from the contest.

 

Well, but most of these woman are miserable properties to their husband/father, it´s not like they have any right to have a voice or an opinion and I wouldn´t blame them. It´s sad that this is becoming so normal in ocidental countries, because the bigger the muslim population get, the more strict they become to their rules.

Well so would you complain if your entire cultural identity was being dragged through the mud on a daily basis by a bunch of right-wing, racist arseholes calling themselves 'journalists'.... And I doubt you'd be too happy either if you were at university or college being arbitrarily spied on, having your home raided and destroyed by 100 armed coppers on incredibly dodgy 'intelligence'; or indeed sitting on a plane, minding your own business talking to your mate in your native language and then being chucked off for no good fukkin' reason....

 

I dont think anyone should have to tolerate this. In the 70s/80s it was the Irish on the receiving end of this sort of bullsh!t, now it's Muslims....

 

Sorry, but the terrorist treats always come from this minority, so it´s no wonder muslims will always be more spied... But it´s not like every Muslim is living on a Big Brother, that´s a big exagerated. If a terrorist attack happens in your city, who would you think first? Hispanic? Black? Gipsy? Germans?

 

Well, but most of these woman are miserable properties to their husband/father, it´s not like they have any right to have a voice or an opinion and I wouldn´t blame them.

 

That's just bullsh!t, the most vocal, committed and by far the most opinionated people that I've seen on any of the Anti-War demos that I've been to have tended to be Muslim women, without a shadow of a doubt.. And if they were so oppressed as you seem to believe, then why are they even going along to an MP's constituency surgery, they wouldn't be allowed to if they were merely 'property'..... Nor would they be going to Universities in DROVES to study and get degrees.... You just dont really have a clue do ya...? You fail to take into account the generational differences. UK-born Muslim women ARE asserting themselves...

 

You look at the one or two places like Nigeria, Saudi Arabia or Taliban-era Afghanistan, and totally ignore the more progressive countries like Pakistan (who voted in a FEMALE head of state not so long ago btw, of course now we have a US-backed military dictatorship there, so fat chance of that ever happening again anytime soon, or indeed anyone being actually voted in...), Turkey or Malaysia...

 

The Olympics started out in Ancient Greece, which is closer to the Arab World geographically speaking (Greece being very near Turkey and all..)... And they had sod all to do with Christianity, the Olympics were started to pay tribute to the ancient Greek Gods, so it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Western, Christian traditions, it is a Pagan tradition (like most other things the Christians came along and nicked)...

 

The Olympics were merely appropriated by the Christian West, so dont be so arrogant as to presume that it in any way 'belongs' to Western or Christian Civilisation....

 

Did I say olympics is a christian tradition? I said WESTERN, which is not the same. When the Olympics began, christianity and islam didn´t even exist, so it makes not difference if Athens is close to Turkey, cause Turkey certainly wasn´t islamic at that time.

 

Plus, Greeks were as influent in our western culture as christianity, if not more... We didn´t heir their religion but most of our culture and philosophy is based on the greeks. The culture of a nation is not based only on religion. Even if Greece is geographically a eastern country, the Greek culture is totally western.

 

Like I said, it´s our western culture, and if minority groups cannot adapt themselves, then they should just not take part. There is a certain religion called Jeovah Witness which is present in almost every western country and cannot take part on this events because patriotism and defending a country is considered a huge sin, but you don´t see they complaining about that and asking the comitte to take off the national anthems and the flags from the event... they simply don´t participate.

Sorry, but the terrorist treats always come from this minority, so it´s no wonder muslims will always be more spied... But it´s not like every Muslim is living on a Big Brother, that´s a big exagerated. If a terrorist attack happens in your city, who would you think first? Hispanic? Black? Gipsy? Germans?

 

If they can come up with a legit reason to spy on a particular someone that they can actually PROVE has links to terror then fair enough, but from what I hear, it's all being done a bit fast and loose and it's not being targeted particularly well... You can expect to hear about some poor sod who's doing his MA thesis on Terrorism having his head kicked in (if indeed they dont get shot and killed by trigger happy coppers) some time in the near future if recent attempts at 'intelligence gathering' are anything to go by...

 

The terrorist threat has not ALWAYS come from Muslims at all, in fact for over 20 years in the UK, it was coming from the Irish Catholic and Unionist community... Get your facts straight on that at least....

If they can come up with a legit reason to spy on a particular someone that they can actually PROVE has links to terror then fair enough,

But if they have to PROVE first, and then start spying, then it would be pointless to spy anyone.

 

But if they have to PROVE first, and then start spying, then it would be pointless to spy anyone.

 

The problem with this whole thing is is that Intelligence evidence cannot be used in a court of law in this country. Paradoxically, pretty much ALL our European partners and even the US allows such evidence in courts... Why not here..? Would save a lot of hassle and it would actually go some way to stop conspiracy theories if a rep from Mi5 or Mi6 got up in open court and gave evidence... Hmm, unless of course someone in the JIC or Govt is afraid of tough cross-examination of the Intelligence services.....