Posted November 22, 200618 yr Give addicts heroin, says officer Heroin should be prescribed to drug addicts to curb crime, the deputy chief constable of Nottinghamshire has said at a drugs conference. Howard Roberts told an Association of Chief Police Officers' conference in Manchester the idea should be assessed. He said the treatment would cost £12,000 a year per addict but added that drug users steal property valued at an average of £45,000 a year. The idea is being piloted in London, the South East and North of England. 'Terrible consequences' "At the moment across the country we see levels of burglary, robbery and murder being committed by drug-fuelled addicts who are doing so in order to get the money to buy the drugs," Mr Roberts told the conference. "One of the things I have found is that as a treatment it has been highly effective in actually helping to reduce crime. "We've seen good levels of falls in drug-related acquisitive crime. "However, there is still a considerable problem and what I am suggesting is that we need to explore, as part of a treatment programme, the prescribing of heroin to addicts in order to take them out of the illegal market." He added: "Of course, getting people off drugs altogether must be the objective. "But I do believe that we have lived with the terrible consequences of relatively uncontained addiction for far too long. "If we are to make a greater impact we need to fundamentally address the method of operation of the criminal market-place for heroin." Improve treatment The manager of a Nottinghamshire-based support service for families of drug users supported the police chief's call. "I'm delighted that police are taking drug treatment options more seriously and have been doing so over the last few years," said Nina Dauban, manager of Mansfield-based Hetty's. "In the past police have been forced to go down the enforcement and criminal justice route that doesn't always solve the problem. "There is a lot of criminality around drugs, reducing the level of criminality is really important in improving treatment for addicts. "All tribute to him saying this. It is typical of Nottinghamshire Police not to be frightened to speak about their convictions. "We're not here to win a popularity contest - we're out to improve services for drug users." Martin Barnes, chief executive of drugs charity DrugScope, said: "There is compelling evidence that heroin prescribing, although more expensive than some forms of drug treatment, is cost-effective in reducing drug-related crime and other costs to communities." Nicola Metrebian, from the charity Action on Addiction, said they were doing research which would "compare the effectiveness of injectable methadone and injectable heroin to oral methadone" for a group of hard to treat heroin users. In the Department of Health pilots, 300 to 400 drug users receive heroin for their addiction. Similar schemes in Holland and Switzerland reported some users turning away from crime.
November 22, 200618 yr The idea is ridiculous Its like giving burglars a master key to every house in the country or giving murderers free machete knives :rolleyes: Far better money would be spent to give them TREATMENT to get them off drugs instead of paying to send them into an even deeper downward spiral :rolleyes:
November 22, 200618 yr "drug addicts ... I KNOW WHAT'LL MAKE THEM BETTER!! LETS PUMP EVEN MORE DRUGS INTO THEM!" it's a very sensible idea in the short term, in terms of preventing people being robbed to get money for a fix, but in the long terms it's only going to make them more addicted, making them need more heroin, and therefore robbing more people to get the next fix. Like KR ^ said, get them treatment, don't make them even more addicted and create a bigger vicious circle.
November 22, 200618 yr it just shows that you can manipulate/interpret statistics to prove anything.... stupid idea, they need treatment not free drugs.
November 22, 200618 yr To be honest I'm in two minds about this.. It seems perfectly obvious to me and to any sensible person that prohibition just is not working at all.. When America brought in the Volstead act in the 1920s it was an utter disaster and created more crime than it prevented, it was repealed on the grounds that it allowed gangsters control of the trade in illegal alcohol..... Well....erm...isn't that exactly the situation we are in with the international trade in illegal drugs...? I'm sorry, but let's get real here, you are NOT gonna convince people to just not try drugs because they are 'bad for you' and wag your finger like some sort of nanny and just expect people to comply.. it aint working like that, at all... Unfortunately it's human nature to be attracted to the things that are potentially bad and harmful... Bear in mind that in the past Cocaine was legal and Opium Dens (the crack-houses of their day…) were quite common in Victorian Britain… It seems to me that it was only after we started clamping down and criminalizing things that the problems began; and do you know what the major ‘drug problem’ was back then, the thing that destroyed families and was the fuel of much violence and crime..? It was GIN… Seriously…. I would rather all drugs be legalised, then it can be controlled, monitored, regulated, and most importantly, taken out of the hands of gangsters and criminals... Like it or not, drugs are a fact of life, let's actually take control of the trade, regulate it, tax it and use the tax revenue it would generate to treat people who might have problems down the line. I know it seems illogical, but it's no more illogical than allowing alcohol, tobacco and then taxing that for similar reasons... You dont have to like the idea to see that it actually makes sense in so many ways... I dont like it myself personally, but I can see it's potentially of some value, so instead of just knee-jerk over-reactions, howabout we actually see how it works out....? Seems to me that you cant actually have a radical idea in this country on how to tackle the ‘drug problem’ without some dickhead tabloid journos making out that the sky will fall in if we actually have a sensible, adult debate about drugs which actually might come to conclusions that we might not like… I.e., That prohibition AINT WORKING…..
November 23, 200618 yr i think its a good idear, it would cut crime ..... but it wouldnt cut out the problem.
November 23, 200618 yr ..... but it wouldnt cut out the problem. Like I said mate, no one's gonna stop taking drugs just because you or I or the Govt says so... People do stupid sh!t to themselves, end of... Better to make sure they actually do the stupid sh!t as safely as possible, surely...? The absolute best we can hope for is containment and control, we will never actually stop the drug trade, and the sooner we actually get real about that, the better for society...
November 23, 200618 yr happen so scott.... but no ones going to be brave enough to do it, besides there would still be dealers..
November 23, 200618 yr Like I said mate, no one's gonna stop taking drugs just because you or I or the Govt says so... People do stupid sh!t to themselves, end of... Better to make sure they actually do the stupid sh!t as safely as possible, surely...? The absolute best we can hope for is containment and control, we will never actually stop the drug trade, and the sooner we actually get real about that, the better for society... i dont agree with you, i say, make evrything legal, then the world would be a great place
November 23, 200618 yr i dont agree with you, i say, make evrything legal, then the world would be a great place Well, ElPres, if you actually read my previous post, that's what I said... Legalise it - regulate it, control it, tax it... Take it out the hands of gangsters and into the hands of the State.. No sod is gonna go to a dealer who cuts his stash with christ knows what if they can get a cleaner supply from a legal, state-controlled outlet....
November 23, 200618 yr i didnt read your post, i just guessed it but i agree what your saying Edited November 23, 200618 yr by ElPresRocket
November 23, 200618 yr it's high time (no pun intended) for this country to face the drugs situation in a grown-up manner and to stop deluding ourselves that drugs are not a problem or as widespread as we'd like to believe. The only way to control a drug problem is to legalise it - as Scott says. Omit the dodgy dealers and plough all the money possible into rehabilitation programmes for the addicts. Especially the ones in prison, to ensure no more court cases like the recent one where a group of prisoners sued for being left to go cold turkey when they were jailed. OK, so prisoners are criminals and why should they be given any special treatment? But the majority of crime in this country is DRUG related.... and these prisoners are just the tip of the criminal iceberg. Education is needed throughout schools, drug drop-in centres are needed for those in dire straits - ensuring that if they desperately need a fix - it's there for them. Hardly an ideal situation - but an addict is an addict and if they need money for a fix - they'll get it from ANYWHERE. From the old grannies walking the road, from you or I in our homes, from the kids flashing their new iPods and mobile phones around as fashion statements. To ignore this fact is to ignore the basic reason behind 90% of crime in this country. To give these desperate addicts somewhere where they KNOW they can get a fix, or preferably, help if they decide to try to come off this vile stuff.Surely preferable to having them ransacking a house for things to sell for a fix or knocking some pensioner senseless to grab their purses. It's time for us to stop looking down our noses at addicts as if they were lepers. Addicts are everywhere, from every walk of life, and addiction is as serious an illness as anyone can get. It's too easy to deride them and pass it off as somebody else's problem it's not - it's society's problem and it needs to be controlled, legalised and dealt with in a sensible, adult manner.
November 23, 200618 yr it's high time (no pun intended) for this country to face the drugs situation in a grown-up manner and to stop deluding ourselves that drugs are not a problem or as widespread as we'd like to believe. The only way to control a drug problem is to legalise it - as Scott says. Omit the dodgy dealers and plough all the money possible into rehabilitation programmes for the addicts. Especially the ones in prison, to ensure no more court cases like the recent one where a group of prisoners sued for being left to go cold turkey when they were jailed. OK, so prisoners are criminals and why should they be given any special treatment? But the majority of crime in this country is DRUG related.... and these prisoners are just the tip of the criminal iceberg. Education is needed throughout schools, drug drop-in centres are needed for those in dire straits - ensuring that if they desperately need a fix - it's there for them. Hardly an ideal situation - but an addict is an addict and if they need money for a fix - they'll get it from ANYWHERE. From the old grannies walking the road, from you or I in our homes, from the kids flashing their new iPods and mobile phones around as fashion statements. To ignore this fact is to ignore the basic reason behind 90% of crime in this country. To give these desperate addicts somewhere where they KNOW they can get a fix, or preferably, help if they decide to try to come off this vile stuff.Surely preferable to having them ransacking a house for things to sell for a fix or knocking some pensioner senseless to grab their purses. It's time for us to stop looking down our noses at addicts as if they were lepers. Addicts are everywhere, from every walk of life, and addiction is as serious an illness as anyone can get. It's too easy to deride them and pass it off as somebody else's problem it's not - it's society's problem and it needs to be controlled, legalised and dealt with in a sensible, adult manner. 100% TRUTH....
November 24, 200618 yr Wow. I've finally found someone who thinks the same as me! You both talk complete sense.
November 24, 200618 yr it's high time (no pun intended) for this country to face the drugs situation in a grown-up manner and to stop deluding ourselves that drugs are not a problem or as widespread as we'd like to believe. The only way to control a drug problem is to legalise it - as Scott says. Omit the dodgy dealers and plough all the money possible into rehabilitation programmes for the addicts. Especially the ones in prison, to ensure no more court cases like the recent one where a group of prisoners sued for being left to go cold turkey when they were jailed. OK, so prisoners are criminals and why should they be given any special treatment? But the majority of crime in this country is DRUG related.... and these prisoners are just the tip of the criminal iceberg. Education is needed throughout schools, drug drop-in centres are needed for those in dire straits - ensuring that if they desperately need a fix - it's there for them. Hardly an ideal situation - but an addict is an addict and if they need money for a fix - they'll get it from ANYWHERE. From the old grannies walking the road, from you or I in our homes, from the kids flashing their new iPods and mobile phones around as fashion statements. To ignore this fact is to ignore the basic reason behind 90% of crime in this country. To give these desperate addicts somewhere where they KNOW they can get a fix, or preferably, help if they decide to try to come off this vile stuff.Surely preferable to having them ransacking a house for things to sell for a fix or knocking some pensioner senseless to grab their purses. It's time for us to stop looking down our noses at addicts as if they were lepers. Addicts are everywhere, from every walk of life, and addiction is as serious an illness as anyone can get. It's too easy to deride them and pass it off as somebody else's problem it's not - it's society's problem and it needs to be controlled, legalised and dealt with in a sensible, adult manner. I can see where you are coming from Russ but legalising is not the answer, it would lead to MORE drug problems, look at the explosive growth in alcohol consumption and cigarette smoking after they were legalised and it went from being a backstreet thing to something mainstream, do you want the same thing to happen with crack and heroin ? are you proposing that people buy crack in Tesco's or at newsagents just to take it out of the hands of the gangsters ? legalising it will lead to more problems There should be the rehabillitation programs and the other stuff, I fully agree with you there, that should be happening anyways but there should be much severer penalties for drug dealers, drug trafficers, suppliers of drugs etc, I am against the death penalty but there should be a full life tariff for any drug dealer, expand the police force, create a stronger more powerful DEA and increase the funding for coastguards etc and get MI5 and MI6 targetting drug dealers and suppliers, I am much more in favour of severer penalties for drug dealers than I am legalisation, anyone who deals drugs be it the pusher in the street or the dealer who is importing it should not taste freedom again in their lives
November 24, 200618 yr I can see where you are coming from Russ but legalising is not the answer, it would lead to MORE drug problems, look at the explosive growth in alcohol consumption and cigarette smoking after they were legalised and it went from being a backstreet thing to something mainstream, do you want the same thing to happen with crack and heroin ? are you proposing that people buy crack in Tesco's or at newsagents just to take it out of the hands of the gangsters ? legalising it will lead to more problems There should be the rehabillitation programs and the other stuff, I fully agree with you there, that should be happening anyways but there should be much severer penalties for drug dealers, drug trafficers, suppliers of drugs etc, I am against the death penalty but there should be a full life tariff for any drug dealer, expand the police force, create a stronger more powerful DEA and increase the funding for coastguards etc and get MI5 and MI6 targetting drug dealers and suppliers, I am much more in favour of severer penalties for drug dealers than I am legalisation, anyone who deals drugs be it the pusher in the street or the dealer who is importing it should not taste freedom again in their lives Have you actually costed any of that though...? To build more prisons to put all the dealers away costs (which is pointless anyway, put one dealer in prison today, another will take their place tomorrow), to fight this 'war on drugs', which we are NEVER gonna win, costs. It is actually far more cost-effective for western govts to buy up all the coca plants and opium poppies grown in the world every year and distribute it and tax it (and use the tax revenue to fund rehab and the NHS) than it is to fight this totally unrealistic and losing war against drugs... If you look at your history, the only time when alcohol was ever banned in a western society was America in the 1920s, and it was a total disaster.... Prohibition does not work....
November 24, 200618 yr but i cant see how legalising it would work either.... wouldnt making legal drugs more available encourage people to try it? where would they start? it wouldnt rid us of dealers as there will always be dealers. in theory it might seem like the answer, but im not sold on the logistics .
November 24, 200618 yr but i cant see how legalising it would work either.... wouldnt making legal drugs more available encourage people to try it? where would they start? it wouldnt rid us of dealers as there will always be dealers. in theory it might seem like the answer, but im not sold on the logistics . Frankly I'm not actually convinced it makes a blind bit of difference.. People are gonna do it if they want or dont do it if they dont want, the law never stopped me from having a joint or an occasional tab of E at a rave, I dont believe that the law prevents anyone from embarking on self-destructive behaviour,and there are neighbourhoods in this country where the law as it stands simply cannot be enforced because it is so endemic... What's the point in criminalising people when all they're really doing is harming themselves...? Junkies turn to crime when they have no other recourse.... The problem is crime, drug turf wars between rival gangs, organised crime and gangsterism, NOT the drug itself... The prohibitionists do NOT have the anwsers to combatting those problems, the drug cartels are sronger than they have ever been, the DEA and others are fighting a 'war' that simply cannot be won.... Time I feel for the State to take charge of this and become the Dealer itself, and put the criminals out of business... Not a palatable idea, but I feel it is the only sensible answer to a problem that is always going to exist... The Americans and their 'war on drugs' is so hypocritical - they give subsidies to their Tobacco farmers and then say to Coca or Opium farmers in the Third World that they can't sell their cash crop in a market economy at a fair price... Sheer double standards....
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