May 29, 20205 yr Do some reading people. Peaceful protests have not been properly tried since the mass gatherings of the 60's which achieved change and improvement. Riots have been tried again and again and again and have never changed a single thing except firing up the white population and giving populist politicians more ammo to batter down the conversation. It's the same with gun control. Fed up with kids being murdered? Why not try rioting in the streets and violence, cos errrr that'll kill you argument dead in a second. Fed up with homophobia? Let's all riot!!! Violence, that'll change minds for sure. Errr no. No it won't. You want to change things? Elect a President willing to change laws so that the police are accountable, and laws that make it a crime to commit racism, and ban guns. That's what the UK did. We had riots too, over racism. Didn't change anything. A roots movement among the young, backed by pop stars and others, that eventually bought in a PM and party willing to change the law changed everything. Thanks Popchart - you've summed up a lot of my thoughts. Honestly shocked that people don't see any wrong in looting and trashing a department store as justice for George Floyd. There is no justification for it. You immediately switch the narrative. All that happens is innocent people get caught up in the crossfire. Guessing a lot of you lot were too young to remember the London Riots. How do you stop people? You educate them.
May 29, 20205 yr There's another five months to go before the election. I'm sure he'll manage to go a good deal lower by then. God knows what he will do to win the election, the next 6 months will be interesting!
May 29, 20205 yr Do some reading people. Peaceful protests have not been properly tried since the mass gatherings of the 60's which achieved change and improvement. Riots have been tried again and again and again and have never changed a single thing except firing up the white population and giving populist politicians more ammo to batter down the conversation. What? The progress America made in the 60s was peaceful and devoid of riots? And there hasn't been a peaceful protest since then? I have no idea about what the correct course of action is in the present time, but let's not rewrite history: perhaps you should do some reading. Edited May 29, 20205 yr by Harve
May 29, 20205 yr To be a bit more constructive: peaceful and violent protest often occurs side by side, and with regards to the long term legacy of them, it's difficult to separate the two.
May 29, 20205 yr Exactly Harve change occurs with a mixture of peaceful protest/politics and violence. Take Ireland as an example do you think the republican movement would have been the biggest nationalist party in NI today by standing singing cumbaya with John Hume in 1968 no chance, unfortunate as it is violence will always play its part!
May 30, 20205 yr Author And honestly, this is an example of what has happened to the looted goods, a makeshift station of mutual aid so that other protesters can keep going. It's not all people out for themselves, indeed there's a good level of solidarity from what I've seen. @1266178599079510016 Anyway, the cop has been charged with third degree murder, some people are calling to raise the degree, sceptical on that as it might make it harder to convict (cf. Zimmerman), we've got protests going in a large number of other American cities, and more power to them. The longer there is civil unrest, the more likely that there will be lasting change.
May 30, 20205 yr From Wiki: "Third-degree murder is a category of murder defined in the laws of only three states in the United States: Florida, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania. It was also formerly defined in New Mexico (which once had five degrees of murder) and Wisconsin. Depending on the state, third-degree murder may include felony murder regardless of the underlying felony, felony murder only where the underlying felony is non-violent, or depraved-heart murder. It is punishable by a maximum of 40 years imprisonment in Florida (in the case of a violent career criminal) and Pennsylvania, and 25 years imprisonment in Minnesota." Edited May 30, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris
May 30, 20205 yr From Sky News online. Situation worsening by the day. State Governor has spoken to President Trump and also VP Pence asking for Federal National Guard to be deployed for tonight. 07:55 "Major Gen Jon Jensen, the head of the state National Guard, says he expect there to be more than 1,700 soldiers - the largest ever deployment - on the streets of Minneapolis and St Paul by the end of tomorrow. 07:52 He says he expects the "event" that will occur "tomorrow", will be an "international" in size 07:51 But Mr Harrington says there are not enough officers to copy and he has requested National Guard help to deal with a "more entrenched" and "armed" group of protesters 07:50 There are 2,500 officers on the streets where the Minnesota protests have been occurring and 50 arrests have been made, John Harrington, Minnesota public safety commissioner says 07:46 Governor of Minnesota Tim Walz has been holding a news conference. He said the situation was "incredibly dangerous", saying there were three times the number of police on the streets than there were in the race riots in the 1960s. "You need to go home" he told the protesters, after saying there had been shots fired at police, and that firefighters were open to targeting."
May 30, 20205 yr Yeh, I think in times like this people forget that a charge doesn’t mean he’s convicted of that offence. The higher the charge, the more harder it will be to prove in court which therefore increases a not guilty verdict which in itself will cause outrage!
May 30, 20205 yr So it looks like the cover-up has started. The preliminary PM report states that he had two underlying heart conditions and may have taken drugs too. So they'll say that those contributed to his death. Suppose it'll depend how good the lawyers are. https://twitter.com/MatthewACherry/status/1...469379757109248
May 30, 20205 yr No need to be condescending. Look, I understand the rationality but Minnesota is a Democratic state. This does go beyond party politics and it's not just about Trump. Systemic and societal racism isn't going to be cured by electing a different President. This is years worth of anger and pain — I'm not going to ignore or condemn the countless American black voices right now because *I* think there is a smarter or more acceptable way to approach it. It doesn't take much to listen. Who knows — perhaps Joe Biden and his team are seeing this unfold and realise the significance of it. It's not worthless. Are we just going to pretend that Stonewall didn't happen? 1. Not being condescending. I've watched history happen, and knee-jerk "yeah lets all riot" glib support doesnt help one bit. I UNDERSTAND the frustration, f*** knows I've been supporting civil rights for 50 years. My parents supported Civil Rights and equality before me. If you don't grasp the basic concept that violence begets violence - while all blissfully ignoring the fact that shitloads of people in close spaces demonstrating right now are going to die from Covid-19. 2. The 60's Civil Rights movement had put up with far worse for hundreds of years! This is not new. Political change is the only thing that works, and that means not only bringing in laws that support the abused, it means bringing in laws that stop the abuse of the currently-abused democratic principles, make the rich pay their fair share, and amend the Constitution to stop a Trump ever happening again. If you want people on side you have to convince them as well as the already-converted. Martin Luther King Jr was The Man who knew this. The USA tried a Civil War. Still a mess. 3. The Stonewall riot didn't change a thing. The peaceful political movement started by Lesbians and Gay Men who were AT Stonewall (Note: current UK Stonewall management rewriting of history is media manipulation) changed everything.
May 30, 20205 yr What? The progress America made in the 60s was peaceful and devoid of riots? And there hasn't been a peaceful protest since then? I have no idea about what the correct course of action is in the present time, but let's not rewrite history: perhaps you should do some reading. I did do reading quite comprehensively (I studied it for my degree in 1980 while it was all recent, which now makes me sound like a dick for mentioning that), also errr the news on TV. The rioting didnt achieve anything. Malcolm X fired people up and pissed them off. He may have inspired young militant black people to act, but the radical change was achieved by the mass protests PEACEFULLY against a backdrop of ongoing murders of black and white, and forcing political changes gradually. Who did most for Black rights ion the 60's? The Watts riots in 1965? Or was it the Viet-Nam-War-supporting white President LBJ who changed the law. Clue: it was LBJ. The Civil Rights Act of 1964. MLK had the ears of the powerful. Malcolm X didn't. Quoting historical events out of context doesn't make them suddenly the cause of change.
May 30, 20205 yr Author Popchartfreak, it seems like you're taking processes that for the most part were influenced by or started as a result of violent protests, and claiming they had nothing to do with violence because they were chronologically removed from the protests... but they couldn't have happened without them! The riots (and peaceful protests, both) leave a lasting legacy that encourage lawmakers like President Johnson to push through legislation. When the state has been using violence for so long against its citizens (we give our right to legalized violence over to them in a bargain for peace, and abusing that right is a betrayal), is it any wonder that some will snap and be justified for doing so? I DO believe that when you are confronted by being eradicated and there is no other option, that defending yourself is defensible. This is the state that black Americans have been forced into, living in fear for their lives should a cop decide to get trigger-happy that day. People involved in riots like Ferguson, and maybe this one if they show their faces, ending up dead. Maybe getting shot by racist white folk determined to hold onto their gun toys. Even without that, they have far worse socioeconomic circumstances, they're far more likely to be in poverty, involved in crime, be arrested for misdemeanours, and are all but second-class citizens, which means that the fight is far from over. This reads like I am for violence a little, and that's certainly not the case, but I recognise it has a role to play to force those in power to take notice. Especially this American administration, which isn't going to look kindly on black issues, because it's a racist one. They will smile at peaceful protests and do nothing as long as they can, but threaten their facsimile of a stable country and you might get them or those that follow them to react.
May 30, 20205 yr 3. The Stonewall riot didn't change a thing. The peaceful political movement started by Lesbians and Gay Men who were AT Stonewall (Note: current UK Stonewall management rewriting of history is media manipulation) changed everything. What a ridiculous statement to make.
May 30, 20205 yr Popchartfreak, it seems like you're taking processes that for the most part were influenced by or started as a result of violent protests, and claiming they had nothing to do with violence because they were chronologically removed from the protests... but they couldn't have happened without them! The riots (and peaceful protests, both) leave a lasting legacy that encourage lawmakers like President Johnson to push through legislation. When the state has been using violence for so long against its citizens (we give our right to legalized violence over to them in a bargain for peace, and abusing that right is a betrayal), is it any wonder that some will snap and be justified for doing so? This is the state that black Americans have been forced into, living in fear for their lives should a cop decide to get trigger-happy that day. People involved in riots like Ferguson, and maybe this one if they show their faces, ending up dead. Maybe getting shot by racist white folk determined to hold onto their gun toys. Even without that, they have far worse socioeconomic circumstances, they're far more likely to be in poverty, involved in crime, be arrested for misdemeanours, and are all but second-class citizens, which means that the fight is far from over. This reads like I am for violence a little, and that's certainly not the case, but I recognise it has a role to play to force those in power to take notice. Especially this American administration, which isn't going to look kindly on black issues, because it's a racist one. They will smile at peaceful protests and do nothing as long as they can, but threaten their facsimile of a stable country and you might get them or those that follow them to react. I agree that violence against people can be the spark for protests that achieve change, providing it's the victims that are in the right, and they are not also committing atrocities. The violent act in this case that could spark change is the murder, not the subsequent rioting. Johnson got the Bill through before the big riot erupted. The event that sparked the Civil Rights movement was Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus. It wasn't rioting. All the subsequent murders of civil rights protestors, including Dr King who knew he had a target on him, but remained steadfast in his belief that peaceful protest was the only way to get change, were if you like losses in the battle. The battle was political. I was 10 when he was murdered, and I was influenced by him and his beliefs. If Black Americans disagreed with him there wouldn't have been such support for the national holiday in memorial to him and what he achieved and gave up.
May 30, 20205 yr How long do you expect people to stay peacefull when so much injustice and violence is done to them tho....
May 30, 20205 yr Who thinks that damning evidence against the officer concerned will just happen to have been stored in a cupboard in the police station that was burnt down?
May 30, 20205 yr Who thinks that damning evidence against the officer concerned will just happen to have been stored in a cupboard in the police station that was burnt down? Have been reading that he knew the victim very well as they'd had many run ins before. He'd arrested him several times. This time he was trying to cash a dud cheque at a money exchange. The officer had a nasty altercation with a suspect before, a few years ago. Bad apple it seems.
May 30, 20205 yr Who thinks that damning evidence against the officer concerned will just happen to have been stored in a cupboard in the police station that was burnt down? There’s a tiny part of my brain that read this and then went, that explains the outside white supremacist folks coming in and causing trouble
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