For me,

 

the better driver across the season won the title.

 

the team that produced the best car won the constructors.

 

Lewis took his defeat with impressive grace and dignity, (something that had been missing too often this year). Respect for that.

 

Nice to see the fans not boo Lewis as he accepted his defeat. Maybe it is all pantomime after all/

 

The FIA need to make the regulations clearer and the fans need to accept that Michael Masi is not Charlie Whiting and interprets some rules differently.

Mercedes have stated their intention to launch a second appeal. They have 96 hours to do so.

 

To think that when they returned to the sport I was so pleased to have one of my favourite teams back

Edited December 12, 20213 yr by Severin

They have done their level best to kill the sport in the hybrid era but this takes the absolute biscuit

 

 

 

The best driver clearly won the title this year for me. It’s overdue to have a world champ that gets there without having a car that has a gigantic advantage over anyone else. This was hard earned and not presented on a platter.

 

Safety Cars have f***ed many peoples race victories before and will continue to do so in the future. It is part and parcel of racing.

The claims of Mercedes:

 

Mercedes claimed that there were two breaches of the Sporting Regulations (Article 48.12) namely that which states “..any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass

the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” and “…once the last lapped car has passed the leader

the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.”

 

Mercedes argued that had this been complied with, Car 44 would have won the race.

 

They therefore requested the Stewards to amend the Classification under Article 11.9.3.h of the FIA International Sporting Code.

 

Red Bull’s arguments in defence:

 

Red Bull argued that

 

1. “Any” does not mean “all”.

2. The article 48.13 of the Sporting Regulations states that the message “Safety Car in this lap” is the signal that it will enter the pit lane at the end of that lap.

3. That therefore Article 48.13 “overrides” article 48.12.

4. That article 15.3 gives the race director “overriding authority” over “the use of the safety car”.

5. That even if all cars that had been lapped (eight in total, of which five were allowed to overtake the safety car) it would not have changed the outcome of the race.

 

Race Director’s Evidence

 

The race director stated that the purpose of article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would “interfere” in the racing between the leaders and that in his view article 48.13 was the one that applied in this case.

 

The race director also stated that it had long been agreed by all the teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a “green” condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car).

 

Conclusions of the Stewards:

 

The Stewards consider that the protest is admissible.

 

Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following:

 

That article 15.3 allows the race director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal.

 

That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, article 48.13 overrides that and once the message “Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap.

 

That notwithstanding Mercedes’ request that the stewards remediate the matter by amending the classification to reflect the positions at the end of the penultimate lap, this is a step that the Stewards believe is effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.

 

Accordingly, the protest is dismissed. The protest deposit is not refunded.

This all looks logical to me. I’m not sure on what grounds other than „we can’t handle that someone had the audacity to beat us“ they can file the appeal on tbh. If 48.13 and 15.3 are deemed to override then mercs entire protest is built on nothing more than a mirage

One wonders how the bosses in Stuttgart will be feeling about all this. Coming across as bad losers will not look good for the brand.

 

I think they were right to question Masi's decisions around the safety car but they need to drop it now. Lewis, whatever his thoughts are on the matter, is doing the right thing and keeping out of it.

My dad said earlier something I think is right. Hamilton has power here, if he comes out and accepts his loss and publicly makes that statement it would make Mercs position very difficult but also regardless of what happened it would be good PR for him coz if it was overturned then he would be able to say „not how I wanted to win..“ etc and would save face for him.

 

 

Let’s see what happens to Mercs shareprice tomorrow. If it takes a dive, Stuttgart will get cold feet I think

One thing that’s maybe precedent is Renaults withdrawal in the 90‘s because the Williams-Renault dominance was hurting the brand, or so Paris felt

A couple of interesting points -

 

Max's World Championship means Stirling Moss is once more the driver with the most wins and no title.

 

 

Max also holds the outright record for most podiums in a season, taking over from Michael Schumacher (Max had five more races this year)

Now it's all calmed down a bit and the dust has settled somewhat I'm obviously gutted for Lewis but I suppose it's happened both ways for him now with this being a reverse situation of 2008. It's very difficult for me to argue against Max deserving the title over the course of the whole season but that finale still leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

 

First off I think we can say that with no Latifi crash the circumstances wouldn't have been there to conspire against Lewis in the first place but I really think Masi here did everything to orchestrate a Hollywood style finish (guess we're now in the "Netflix" era of F1 now). I suspect had Latifi crashed a couple of laps later it would have been a red flag and Baku-style restart. Additionally had Merc pitted Lewis and Max stayed out, dare I say the race *would* have finished under the safety car with Max P1. Speaking of which, I was surprised Jenson Button was vouching for the race to finish under racing conditions considering he won his only title under a safety car!

 

I sympathise with the FIA to some degree and the last lap finale is excellent advertising for an increasingly-popular Sport but it was the lapped cars situation that really irked me. You can't let only the cars between Lewis & Max through and not the others. Put it this way, why was Max allowed to challenge for the win but Carlos Sainz in 3rd wasn't? He still had Ricciardo, Stroll & Schumacher between him & Max and they weren't allowed to unlap themselves. Similarly, Ricciardo by extension wasn't allowed to fight for any points on the last lap.

 

Obviously as it was the last race it was treated differently compared to if the same set of circumstances had happened in any other race which does bring the "rulebook" somewhat into question. Although this isn't the first time it's happened of course, I'm glad Severin brought up 1989 as I was mentioning that to my partner & mates who haven't followed F1 for as long. At the end of the day the Sport has always thrived on controversy and sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't!

 

TLDR: Unlucky Lewis. Well done Max. Masi to resign. Roll on 2022!

Edited December 15, 20213 yr by Dobbo.

I still think that this weekends decision undid the loss of points that Max suffered at Silverstone (surely he would have at least scored 18pts, meaning a second place this weekend would still have given him the title)

 

I agree that the finale was orchestrated to set up a grandstand finish, but from an impartial perspective I am glad the fastest driver won

 

It also seems mad to me that Lewis could have 10 titles by now, to incorporate:

- Mistakes in Rosberg’s title season

- China pitlane crash

- This year

 

Both are legends of the sport and I hope this will be remembered as one of the greatest title battles. I am really hoping it’s a close 3 way battle next year, with Russell being up there

Did the fastest driver win? Lewis pulled away from Max all race!

Lewis was definitely robbed of the win, there’s no other way of looking at it imo - but I’m also aware that it’s hardly the first time a safety car has bunched them back up

Did the fastest driver win? Lewis pulled away from Max all race!

Lewis was definitely robbed of the win, there’s no other way of looking at it imo - but I’m also aware that it’s hardly the first time a safety car has bunched them back up

 

Fastest driver across the season. Mercedes was definitely the faster car for the majority of races

 

I would even say that in the same car, Norris & Gasly would have been quicker than Lewis throughout much of this season

Depends on how much you attribute that to the driver or the screamer engine Merc bolted in the back of it in a pure retro pre-2007 title showdown throwback.

 

 

I agree with Fernando and as others have said. The fastest car won’t be constructors but the faster driver won the drivers WC.

Fastest driver across the season. Mercedes was definitely the faster car for the majority of races

 

I would even say that in the same car, Norris & Gasly would have been quicker than Lewis throughout much of this season

 

Completely disagree with your last sentence. Max & Lewis were both on another level to everyone else this year.

 

And I'd say it was 50/50 for a lot of the season for fastest car, which is why it was such a compelling year.

 

And my bold shout for 2022 is that Ferrari will be the fastest car and one of Leclerc or Sainz will be the champion.

 

 

It's hard to judge how much better Max and Lewis are than others, but both continue to completely annihilate their team mates who this season were both drivers who had performed very strongly in upper midfield teams. It's a big stretch to say anyone else was as good and would've been close in the same car.

 

Mercedes may have been a faster car overall but not by much, that second quarter of the season the Red Bull was as dominant as Merc were in the last four races.

In terms of the faster car, it all depends on the circuit. The Mercedes is much quicker in a straight line even with more downforce but doesn't like slow technical tracks anywhere near as much as the aer dominant Red Bull. Even when the Red Bull runs the skinny wings, the high rake set up produces more downforce and drag than the Merc.

 

Therefore the general rule is, with all things being equal, Mercedes will dominate on a fast circuit with longer straights and a majority of sweeping, fast corners - such as Brazil, Silverstone or Monza. The Red Bull will own a circuit like Monaco.

 

High altitude means the Mercedes engine struggles to stay cool with the thin air so Austria and Mexico don't suit them.

 

The slimmest majority of circuits this year tended to favour Mercedes ever so slightly but they began the season with some bad handling issues that meant Red Bull took the advantage early on.

 

By mid season that was no longer that bad and the car handled well.

 

If the cars that ended this season were not allowed to be altered and ran the exact same circuits next year, the Mercedes should win the title comfortably.

 

 

 

As for how much better the top 2 drivers are, it is diffcult to be certain with Lewis. The only former team mate left on the grid is Alonso and their time together was marred by Fernando's belief (rightly or wrongly) that Lewis was being favoured. Bottas is clearly not anywhere near elite and Rosberg and Button whilst very good weren't in that top tier either. Kovolainen was basically rubbish.

 

Verstappen has outperformed all his team mates either dramatically or noticeably and yet he's still improving

 

 

I'd say most of the better drivers on the grid - Leclerc, Sainz, Norris, Gasly, Ricciardo, maybe Russell are potentially in the Rosberg, Berger, Alesi, Button, Montoya category - great at times and capable of a title with the right car and some luck.

 

Lewis and Max are clearly both top tier multiple championship worthy - indeed they remind me of Prost and Senna but without the hatred. They get on pretty well comparatively.

 

Hamilton has Prost's racecraft and guile. He can fight hard when he needs to but he knows you need to win the race going as slow as possible. He's much more comfortable in the wet than Alain was though (understandably)

 

Verstapppen, like Senna prefers to drive every lap flat out even if he doesn't need to, he's aggressive and will go for any gap another driver leaves. It is something we haven't seen on the grid in years. If Max calms his head and becomes more wily, he'll be the perfect mix of Senna and Schumacher - Superfast, aggressive and with an ability to read a race well before anyone else. With the right car he'll be unstoppable.

 

This year has been the first time we've had two equally capable rivals since Senna and Prost (sorry Mika, so close)

 

 

 

i heard they are only appealing one of the 2 they initially appealed on.

 

so is Hamilton only coming back if he is paid 50M a year? not to win 8 and be outright GOAT?

 

he just sold his house for 50M!

Mercedes are not appealing the result.

 

Verstappen will be crowned tonight as normal.

Not surprised. The safety car/protest drama has already caused enough damage to the sport, and it looked unlikely to succeed anyway given precedent and the wording of the stewards ruling.

 

That they didn’t even thank their team or Bottas until today for the constructors was also starting to really drag on the wider Merc reputation. I wouldn’t be surprised if this decision was made under heavy pressure from Stuttgart to drop it and move on

Stone-cold reaction from Wolff when asked if he has spoken to Michael Masi.

 

He says: "I am not interested in having a conversation with Michael Masi..."

 

Adds: "The FIA needs to decide if they are going to bother going forwards."