I want to put it out there first of all, by saying I'm a huge M fan. I was once the kind that waited outside her hotel on visits, collected, adored and generally, fan-boy'd out on her. And for years. That obsessive adoration all changed when I met her at a private party and then I just because a more regular fan of her music - some normality returned, but M will always be in my blood. Being a fan of M's is sometimes hard, I've always felt the need to defend her, whether it be vocally or whether it be from people just saying she's over. How many times have we heard that? Still, the return of being a fan is huge. I've always been so glad that I poured my fandom love and energy into her and not other pop stars, who were all simply sub-par. She was, and will always be the Queen...

 

However, l remember a time when everything Madonna did, was immense, well thought out, and impactful.

 

And that's the point of my post, something with M doesn't feel right, right now. Her latest Tik Tok on the eve of the Grammys was odd, the Frozen remixes are rushed, and add nothing to the original masterpiece. They're poor in fact. That coupled with the last couple of albums, videos, single releases, pretty much everything, feels lacking. I think for me it all started to feel a little 'undone' with the Eurovision catastrophe. Something doesn't feel right when I see her on social media. And I can't put my finger on it. The bio-pic seems to be drifting, and I think she could genuinely use a change of direction and Manager. 100% a new Manager. It's her life to make her choices, but I'm tired of the grills, the smoking, and the silliness. I'm also tired of the poorly thought-out social media posts. I will defend her for the rest of my days (not that she needs defending), but I just feel, right now, she doesn't seem very happy.

 

That all said, her legacy is unrivaled. Yet, if I could spend 4 mins with her now, I'd tell her that I don't want to see her chasing her youth, and in concert, I don't need her to dance like she used to, all she has to do is sing. Her voice is why I love her, and her music. Ultimately, she is her own worst enemy, and I guess that's why I still love her.

 

What does everyone else think?

Edited April 5, 20223 yr by Dante77

I like the remixes of Frozen, they kind of fit the current vibe in the music climate. And I really enjoyed the Madame X project and the tour received massive critical acclaim.

 

As far as the recent TikTok goes, I think she was just high. But interesting to see if the biopic is really going as planned - it might be a tough project given her need of being in control of absolutely everything.

 

Her Spotify numbers seems to have increased a lot lately. She has 21.7 million monthly listeners. Haven't really been following that closely but seems the biggest number to date?

Edited April 5, 20223 yr by Sour Candy

As far as the recent TikTok goes, I think she was just high. But interesting to see if the biopic is really going as planned - it might be a tough project given her need of being in control of absolutely everything.

 

And that's the point, Madonna is allowed to do whatever she pleases, but this isn't the M of old - she and her team were so careful with her image, so creative with her releases and videos, I guess those days are gone for now.

 

Maybe it's me who's changed; I listened to both Frozen remixes for 30 seconds each and just hated them. I never hate M music. Maybe I miss the old M.

Huge fan used to be obsessed. She has now lost her marbles, luckily in her world she stayed ‘with it’ for nearly all her career!

 

That's exactly it, I truly honestly believe she has lost her marbles and some of her bizarre behaviour these days is impossible to defend.

 

I think for the majority of her career when social media wasn't a thing, there was an element of untouchability about her and a certain sense of mystery which kept people interested and talking. Now with a phone at her disposal, she's plastering her whole life (armpit selfies and all) and unravelling in the most embarrassing fashion.

"in trouble" I am not sure I would totally go for but I fully respect all of the opinions here and largely agree with them. The "untouchable", "all-powerful" Madonna that existed before she found social media is a thing of the past. The illusion is gone and the popstar has laid it all to bare (no pun intended).

 

It also seems irreversible. There's no way of removing the content from the internet or erasing it from people's minds.

 

What I will say however, and what I applaud is that she is continuing on her ethos of not caring what the world thinks. She has revolutionised the musical world and broken barriers that have opened doors for so many people. She has toured the world, won the awards, broke the records... so on the other side of the coin, why shouldn't she just be allowed to do whatever she wants now and act how she wants to. Maybe it is us that are too prude and self-concious and worried about public perception. She doesn't really need people to find her elusive anymore, she has done it all!

 

As fans we always want the best for the artists we admire: maybe this is what Madonna has always wanted, to just BE without having to masquerade herself as the Queen of Pop..

 

It's a tough one..

Even in her prime there were people who thought that she went "too far", whether it was religious imagery (Like a Prayer) or sexuality (Sex, Erotica) or whatever. There are also people who think that she has gone too far now with how she acts on social media. Going too far is what she is used to do.

 

Even in her prime there were people who thought that she went "too far", whether it was religious imagery (Like a Prayer) or sexuality (Sex, Erotica) or whatever. There are also people who think that she has gone too far now with how she acts on social media. Going too far is what she is used to do.

The difference for me is that I’ve never considered Madonna to be an idiot which is how I often feel she is now. She used to be so charismatic and intelligent, particularly in interviews from 1989 to 2005 which I often rewatch and am impressed by, whereas now I find myself cringing and not getting anything worthwhile from her. She did always have this air of mystery and an untouchable quality that has been mentioned in this thread, but I always found her very relatable too and, for everything she was criticised for, she had a convincing, intelligent response to.

The difference for me is that I’ve never considered Madonna to be an idiot which is how I often feel she is now. She used to be so charismatic and intelligent, particularly in interviews from 1989 to 2005 which I often rewatch and am impressed by, whereas now I find myself cringing and not getting anything worthwhile from her. She did always have this air of mystery and an untouchable quality that has been mentioned in this thread, but I always found her very relatable too and, for everything she was criticised for, she had a convincing, intelligent response to.

 

Exactly my thought.

Just like you, I'm a die-hard fan...and nothing going on right now is going to change that. But yes, her image has been in a bad place for a while now.

 

Some of it should have been avoided. Obviously, she didn't need to take an Aretha Franklin tribute and turn it into a rambling speech about herself. Die-hard fans may understand that she puts on shows hours and hours after the stated start time, but most people attending are just going to view it as poor form. Her takes on COVID were shallow and often bizarre.

 

As for what people perceive as desperate attempts to be young...I tend to be split on that. My feeling is that age shouldn't stop an artist from pursuing a sound that speaks to them. Her defiance at what people think a person her age should say/wear...is, to me, often a strike against ageism...and a stance that's very in line with her character. Buuut. While I'll defend a chunk of Rebel Heart as pretty good...and say that MDNA and Madame X have the occasional good song, her musical quality has unquestionably dropped. Yes, ageism stopped her from getting hits for several deserving songs over the past decade. But, realistically...(except for Crave), nothing off Madame X would be a hit for anyone. So. When you're without the substance of amazing songs, you're kinda left with someone showing up to events just to flash the latest reinvention of her butt. And. I never thought she'd come off as that shallow.

 

I'll never stop being a fan, but she has become her public perception's own worst enemy...and does need something to remind the world how she became such a titan of the industry. A biopic has the potential to do it...but not with her directing.

One last thought. I don't think this is getting much discussion in the world...but I do think Madonna's struggled to sing for several years.

 

Yes, everyone ganged up on her after that Eurovision performance...but the broad perception out there was that she can't sing...or was especially bad that night. The fact is...she was a rather good, disciplined singer for a lot of her career. I think something has genuinely happened to her voice.

 

Whether she'd acknowledge such a thing, I don't know. You could argue her age just naturally changed her voice...making it harder to sing those early songs. But that doesn't explain why she doesn't even attempt her new songs without major distortion to her voice. I guess you could argue that distortion is only for the effect of the songs...but I'm not so sure. The fact vocals from her concert tours and Eurovision performance were doctored to the point of sounding nothing like the original vocals implies her team's aware something's up.

I don't think she's been wearing the most flattering clothes lately.

 

Not because it's lingerie and I think she should cover up. I just don't think a lot of the cuts and styles she's chosen have flattered her body shape or really given the image she seems to be trying to convey of someone confident, expensive and untouchable.

 

Tbh though not listening to anyone else is kinda iconic and certain people have been trying to make her a figure of fun for at least half of her career.

 

The Frozen remixes for me were just a bit lazy. She should have contributed something more than poses in the video to them.

So as a starting point... Madonna will always be somebody. Whether she is 60, 70, 80... even after she is dead, hers will be a name that is remembered.

 

We always remember the absolute Queen of Pop, who released epic music, banging classics - the tours, the music videos, the fashion choices, the movies. Yes, she had several mis-steps, but she still seemed to be able to make all of those iconic and she was a force that couldn't be stopped and showed strength. I loved watching her interviews because she always seemed interesting, educated, funny and controversial.

 

But somewhere along the way, the star begins to fade - she's outlived Michael, Whitney, George... but I doubt they would be having hit after hit if they were still with us - but she is still going. She's attempted to keep making music. MDNA was a good album, but you can hear how rushed it was. 10 years before, Girl Gone Wild would have been a Top 10 hit. Rebel Heart suffered from the leaks, and felt bloated. But 20 years before, Ghosttown would have been an easy Top 5. But it was after this era that things went really off, and Madame X isn't something that would have produced a hit. Even God Control, for all it's brilliance, is probably only brilliant alongside the other tracks that surrounded it on that album. Yes she embraced the music of the country she was in and yes it was brave... but it wasn't good.

 

Too many things have happened that show her weakness. Falling off the stage at the Brits, not delivering at Eurovision... these are massive events that have stayed in people's minds. Her social media is, indeed, a mess and I cringe a bit when I hear her being interviewed and trying too hard to be controversial, or when she appears at an awards show only to fluff her lines.

 

What she appears to be seeing now is her legacy is her strong point. Frozen, Material Girl, Remix Revolution, Movie of the Story of her Life.

 

Can she have another hit? Probably not with something new... but Frozen could have been reasonable. If they had released the longer version where Sickick does the verses. Sickick vs Madonna (so it was a sample, not a remix). Released when it was still relevant on TikTok. But she took over and left it too long and brought out not-that-good 2-minute versions.

 

I love Madonna... always will... and the old tracks could bring her back to people's attention in a good way. But it needs to be handled right... and I fear it won't be.

She’s a woman in her sixties that has seen it all, done it all, and doesn’t give a damn. Why not? She’s not hurting anyone — as ‘embarrassing’ as it is.

 

Her music output has been patchy at best for over a decade — I have just learnt to live with it. Some of her discography will forever be untouchable and that is enough now.

I'm still checking for what she puts out tbh, whatever it is you know with Madonna it will be something interesting! Even at this point something more traditional would be an unexpected turn for her.

 

Like bs said, if she's having fun, fair play to her. Do I think she could do better for her legacy? Sure, but she's earned the right and ability not to worry about that if she doesn't want to, or even to take a few years off and then go back to policial/pop/principled Madonna another time. It has been a crazy few years and everyone is coping with it in different ways I think is also an important point.

Madonna looks a mess to be honest. I wish she would just act her real age instead of trying to look and act like she is 30 years younger. It just sends out the wrong message that there is something bizarrely wrong with ageing rather than just accepting it as being a part of life. Yes, she will always have a fantastic legacy but there is very little new music she has brought out since confessions that has struck the same chord with me as her earlier stuff. Hard candy was a step too far down the urban route and didn’t really suit her. We then had three albums under her new label and none of them are a patch on any of her earlier material. Maybe she is just trying too hard to fit in with the current trends by working with people like Nicki Minaj who are just crap rather than doing a classic Madonna record. Kylie’s disco album is a very good example of this and it worked well.

Edited April 16, 20223 yr by slowdown73

Their is a huge sense of desperation to be younger than she is.

A very talented person that is in danger of destroying herself fighting nature.

There is much to be said for growing old graciously.

Also. As much as we'd like to think that M's legacy of amazing songs/videos will outlast anything that's happening now...I'm not sure that's quite how history works.

 

Maybe this is overthinking it, but I'll lay it out anyway. I've always found a lot of parallels between Madonna and 1930s film star Mae West. Madonna released the Sex book. West wrote and performed the play, Sex. Both were beautiful women challenging censorship and pushing the limits of society's views on sex. They fought for their art. Both had/have huge gay followings. Both had brains to back it all up. Madonna wrote the majority of her hits. West wrote her films. But what eventually happened with West is she became something of a parody of herself. Her appearance became bizarre. Her films became terrible. She was overtly nasty to up-and-coming actresses. The oddity of her behavior on set and in public became legendary.

 

40+ years after her death, West's bizarre later years are honestly as famous as her screen legend early years. It might not go the same way for Madonna. But...it could...

Edited April 17, 20223 yr by Piers

Also. As much as we'd like to think that M's legacy of amazing songs/videos will outlast anything that's happening now...I'm not sure that's quite how history works.

 

Maybe this is overthinking it, but I'll lay it out anyway. I've always found a lot of parallels between Madonna and 1930s film star Mae West. Madonna released the Sex book. West wrote and performed the play, Sex. Both were beautiful women challenging censorship and pushing the limits of society's views on sex. They fought for their art. Both had/have huge gay followings. Both had brains to back it all up. Madonna wrote the majority of her hits. West wrote her films. But what eventually happened with West is she became something of a parody of herself. Her appearance became bizarre. Her films became terrible. She was overtly nasty to up-and-coming actresses. The oddity of her behavior on set and in public became legendary.

 

40+ years after her death, West's bizarre later years are honestly as famous as her screen legend early years. It might not go the same way for Madonna. But...it could...

 

 

I mean Mae West was still voted the 15th greatest female screen legend by The American Film Institute so that's quite the legacy...