edited a title in, yes I've gone for the stereotypes, do they deserve it? also yes.

and yes believe me we need one of these for the Farage fanclub/what might be threatening to become something more.

Reform has referred Rupert Lowe, one of their 5 MPs, to the police. He's been very outspoken in his time in Parliament and is threatening to become a figure nearly as prominent as Farage in promoting himself. The police referral is over bullying in his office, and it seems like all the major 'figures' in the party are split over Lowe and Farage.

so put simply, Reform seem to have this evening dissolved into civil war. Enjoy.

Absolutely shock.. not! Guess this is the problem with the model and how Farage can’t be ousted as a leader. Imagine this much chaos with 5 MPs.. imagine what it will be like with even 50-60 MPs. Not a serious party at all until they change their structure.

That’s the prob with Farage. He is a good campaigner and so forth but ultimately an egomaniac. Seems like a character assassination on that guy after he criticised Farage.

Wow it worries me we have a Reform thread!

Just now, Steve201 said:

Wow it worries me we have a Reform thread!

in the best case, this is the first step on the road to their irrelevance and we don't need it for long

if not, we'll chronicle what they do because for now they are getting a lot of attention (for balance, we do have a Lib Dem thread on page 2 that I've been meaning to bump as soon as we get a Lib Dem story worth posting for)

34 minutes ago, SotaLiam said:

That’s the prob with Farage. He is a good campaigner and so forth but ultimately an egomaniac. Seems like a character assassination on that guy after he criticised Farage.

And also an indication of what Reform would be like without him, directionless and a bunch of shouty blokes getting into fights with each other. Lowe thinks he talks a good game but his politics are shallow and his strategic skills are non-existent, and clearly from this, his character is wanting.

The Reformed disaster thread

The party of free speech referring one of their own to the police for hurty words. You can’t make this up. 🫠

For reform to hit 26-27% shows there is a big voter base but it’s led by people non representative of that base. Fox hunters and wealthy people looking to essentially just implement old school conservatism. Farage has to accept his prime is over. He has smoked 100k cigarettes and probably has cirrhosis of the liver. He needs to accept being a novelty act to wheel out at elections and whenever a party needs a boost. If he can’t accept that then they have no chance. Even with the Conservatives being out of touch and Labour implementing austerity

1 hour ago, SotaLiam said:

For reform to hit 26-27% shows there is a big voter base but it’s led by people non representative of that base. Fox hunters and wealthy people looking to essentially just implement old school conservatism. Farage has to accept his prime is over. He has smoked 100k cigarettes and probably has cirrhosis of the liver. He needs to accept being a novelty act to wheel out at elections and whenever a party needs a boost. If he can’t accept that then they have no chance. Even with the Conservatives being out of touch and Labour implementing austerity

The issue is, without Farage, any alt right party is never going to get any mainstream traction or have a chance of winning a general election. Without Farage, Reform is nothing and would be far too extreme.

10 minutes ago, Rooney said:

The issue is, without Farage, any alt right party is never going to get any mainstream traction or have a chance of winning a general election. Without Farage, Reform is nothing and would be far too extreme.

Seems a bit odd to think a 27% voter party is reliant on one man. So you think Farage is a moderate?

1 hour ago, SotaLiam said:

Seems a bit odd to think a 27% voter party is reliant on one man. So you think Farage is a moderate?

Look at how UKIP fared when Farage no longer was their poster boy. Farage certainly isn’t a moderate but he is part of the establishment and understands how order works and to try and . Without Farage, Reform doesn’t exist and struggles to poll 10%. You’d literally be the BNP.

Polls are transient and don't tell us anything about the current party structure, they're a 14.3% vote party (2024), only a little bit off the 12.3% their effective ancestor UKIP got in 2015, and while polls are relatively accurate at the moment, there's nothing to suggest they'd get double that at any true electoral test, particularly when their party leadership acts in this way.

With such a dearth of talent, they can't really put those poll results into a reality and Farage really is the only reason they have gotten this far. Their poll numbers are half the UKIP/strong-right-nutter vote and half apolitical people placing their desires for a party to "fix politics" onto a blank slate, if they see Reform doing stuff (or 'they're all the same' controversies like this Lowe thing!), they will likely be quickly dissatisfied again.

I would LOVE them to dump Farage. Keep splitting, bozos.

5 minutes ago, Rooney said:

Look at how UKIP fared when Farage no longer was their poster boy. Farage certainly isn’t a moderate but he is part of the establishment and understands how order works and to try and . Without Farage, Reform doesn’t exist and struggles to poll 10%. You’d literally be the BNP.

UKIP had one purpose and once it was done they inevitably failed to have a reason to exist.

I don’t see how Italy and all these countries can have substantial parties but the UK cannot. Even Trump in the US is same ballpark. Farage is not what you’re presenting him as. He just enforced himself as a figurehead. But the 27% is not loyal to Farage. It probably can be a lot bigger than 27% with the right people.

Young people generally don’t have much time for Labour or Conservatives so you need a realistic third option and it doesn’t need to be extreme at all. Farage stuff is just Farage FC and when someone becomes more popular than him he throws them under the bus that’s not ever going to be a serious party. It’s basically a PR group for one man. A fox hunter no less. Something hardly anyone supports.

It is actually a supremely good thing that the UK has so far been relatively resistant to far-right politics. The reason, maybe our Westminster parliamentary system combined with FPTP is good for neutering insurgent populist strongmen and not giving them a base to build from (Johnson was never as dangerous as many of his counterparts across the globe and while Farage's successful maneuvering of the country to his warped aims should be noted, he's not been near the levers of power like say Orbán has and is too much of a known quantity to be given a chance), maybe the British character doesn't like the inevitable brashness that these figures present, but long may it continue.

'Young people' are far more likely to support Green or Liberal Demorats (the real realistic third option), or even the big two than Reform, I don't get where this lie comes from, a holdover from American talk of MAGA youth, itself an exaggeration, every poll cross tab shows that most of Reform's current support is among the over-50s.

but basically every Reform figure, Farage included, is a deeply off-putting person outside of the base, I struggle to see how that becomes ever wide-appealing. Thankfully.

16 minutes ago, Iz 🌟 said:

Polls are transient and don't tell us anything about the current party structure, they're a 14.3% vote party (2024), only a little bit off the 12.3% their effective ancestor UKIP got in 2015, and while polls are relatively accurate at the moment, there's nothing to suggest they'd get double that at any true electoral test, particularly when their party leadership acts in this way.

With such a dearth of talent, they can't really put those poll results into a reality and Farage really is the only reason they have gotten this far. Their poll numbers are half the UKIP/strong-right-nutter vote and half apolitical people placing their desires for a party to "fix politics" onto a blank slate, if they see Reform doing stuff (or 'they're all the same' controversies like this Lowe thing!), they will likely be quickly dissatisfied again.

I would LOVE them to dump Farage. Keep splitting, bozos.

Talent? This isn’t sports. You just need a cohesive message the voter base is already there. People said 20% was the ceiling in polls. Same with Trump and the popular vote being impossible. People don’t speak to real people. I’ve seen my own sibling go from a very deluded Corbyn supporter to thinking the country is a joke. 16-35 has a huge number of people who do not want to see the direction continue.

All you need is money behind you and that’s 50% of the task right there. Obviously a large amount of people are tribal and see a party like sports team that’s a problem when you have a common sense message as sense to someone in a cult can seem extreme but if you have young attractive slick good people in charge it can still cut through. Reform took millions of votes from Labour and even an MP is ex Labour so I don’t buy this ultra ring wing spin you’re putting on it.

Farage can be useful in elections to do town halls of the over 75+’s might damage his ego but he’d do anything for the right price.

'You don't need [political] talent but you also need a cohesive message' - get out of here, you clearly don't understand how elections are won.

Seriously, lay off the anecdotal analysis, I know just as many people (also 'real people' btw) who are fine with the government and are more worried about American foreign policy - and certainly in that age range. Similarly, to dismiss other votes as tribal but your 'attractive', slick Reform young conservative freak you're envisioning as just a purveyor of common sense is ludicrous. Some people are tribal of all political stripes, but many more are voting for what they agree with.

Also are you referring to LEE ANDERSON as the ex Labour Reform MP?

33 minutes ago, Iz 🌟 said:

It is actually a supremely good thing that the UK has so far been relatively resistant to far-right politics. The reason, maybe our Westminster parliamentary system combined with FPTP is good for neutering insurgent populist strongmen and not giving them a base to build from (Johnson was never as dangerous as many of his counterparts across the globe and while Farage's successful maneuvering of the country to his warped aims should be noted, he's not been near the levers of power like say Orbán has and is too much of a known quantity to be given a chance), maybe the British character doesn't like the inevitable brashness that these figures present, but long may it continue.

'Young people' are far more likely to support Green or Liberal Demorats (the real realistic third option), or even the big two than Reform, I don't get where this lie comes from, a holdover from American talk of MAGA youth, itself an exaggeration, every poll cross tab shows that most of Reform's current support is among the over-50s.

but basically every Reform figure, Farage included, is a deeply off-putting person outside of the base, I struggle to see how that becomes ever wide-appealing. Thankfully.

It’s a false option since I don’t believe far-right is anything relevant but how is a country run by the same group from Eton or a guy with a knighthood a good thing? Who has benefitted? What good has come from it? It’s pretty clear the same group of people maintain power by false fears of far right and far left. The average person is not an extremist. It’s a rare thing to find a Nazi in 2025. It’s not the norm. You don’t need a system to prevent something that doesn’t exist. You need a system set up to keep power in certain hands no matter who wins and that’s what has been happening hence nobody wins except the same people.

When you look at polls and the demographic breakdown it usually shows what age group is saying. Recently it’s been more favoured towards reform and the greens. Which makes sense as this is the norm in Europe and became the norm recently in the US.

At one time young voters were almost 85% green/Labour them days look dead.

Young people are not restricted by certain things. Certain viewpoints like immigration had a stigma for awhile due to groups like the BNP. But most people under 35 have never heard of the BNP theyre enshrined in cultures and the internet that is a very mixture of everyone. They are far more adept at navigating these issues and understand the full landscape. Much more so than someone repeating do-gooder slogans and often looking silly to everybody.

Liberal Democrat’s are not an option. Their main base are extremely wealthy privileged people. They are more out of touch than anyone. And yeah right now they are pretty off putting figures so imagine they weren’t. That 27% could be 30-35% easily.

Ultimately the political class is a class upon itself. Classism runs wild in Britain. You need innovative young new fresh ideas but naturally intelligent not over-educated people. The level of dissatisfaction and dissolution is at such levels such a party could for sure win. That wasn’t possible 5+ years ago. Reform voter base is not going to just suddenly change their mind even if they vote someone else. That open to voting such a party has been established it just needs better people to utilise it.

23 step program

1. All major decisions decided by referendum

2. Copy Portugal’s drug policy

3. All judges that make bad decisions get fined 5000

4. An IQ of 120+ automatically counts the same worth as a college degree

5. Legalise weed for tax purposes

6. Clampdown on crypto fraudsters and sell the acquired crypto for tax purposes

7. No TV license

8. Tariffs on all countries that do not benefit the UK

9. Zero tolerance on illegal immigration

10. Immigration has to be at 0 until population is level. So for every person that comes one has to leave until 60 million hit

11. Tax rise on major companies such as McDonald’s, Amazon etc including energy and phone companies

12. Nationalise water companies

13. Every welfare benefit is means tested

14. A leave option grant of 20k for those wanting to leave(must renounce citizenship if applicable)

15. Restorative justice for all non serious crimes and complete zero tolerance of life for all serious crimes.

16. Two UI payments to all means tested citizens of 5000 per year

17. 65% tax on anyone earning over 10 mill per year

18. Anyone who does an important job improperly. Say a surgeon. Fine of 5000

19. Free travel for a year for citizens who contribute positively to society

20. No more House of Lords.

21. The Royal Family must donate one valuable item to a person in need every year

22. Minimum wage of £25 an hour

23. Every 15 yr old gets a full evaluation from medical and health professionals such as psychologists to spot any issues early that could help or harm their development

Is that your 23 step program? Because some of those are just plain weird…

See the above is a good encapsulation of Liam Sota's ideological incoherency and similarly, Reform's ideological incoherency that absent of much else, leads the door open to either disastrous incompetence or strongman authoritarianism, often with a nationalistic far-right bent because that's an easy sell emotionally to left-behind voters.

(also note that he has to stretch to include Starmer in the 'all the same' bracket because he didn't go to Eton with the knighthood reference, which is an odd thing to do because a knighthood is actually a very merit-based qualification in our system, unlike the corruption-ridden chum-ness of Eton)

That post could just be trolling, some of it is so odd it's hard to believe anyone who posts here would actually believe that.

It's a mix of good ideas that might take a while to implement properly (water nationalisation, weed legalisation, tax rises), good idealistic policies that would have negative effects if we implemented them immediately or come with weird attachés (drastically high minimum wage, restorative justice), and braindead policies that come from the depths of a newspaper comment section or three pints deep at the Red Lion (one person in one out immigration, fine experts we think do a 'bad job' 5 grand). Not worth tearing them all down individually because some of those are good ideas and for the rest we'd be here too long and y'all don't deserve that brainrot, but a common theme is that they would for the most part never be policy because such simplistic implementations are insanely open to abuse.

If a serious challenge is to come to the more standard governance that governs Britain, whether Conservative or centrist Labour, it can't realistically come together with drunk babble like the above. Reform's instability and preference for such ideas proves that (plus the fact that many of their number are very much close with the establishment (Anderson, Farage) and/or millionaires (Tice, Lowe)), and if they ever get their shit together, we'd be looking at a political beast like Johnson or Farage about to sweep to power on nationalist sentiment and do their best to implement democratic backsliding a la Orbán, Modi or the obvious (and don't count out Italy from treading down this path either) - which you categorically do not want.

You need an inspiring movement that brings people of all sorts, people who are doing well but want a more compassionate government, minority voters who want equality and justice, and the economic wants of the left-behind voters, all of those together, with them, Reform will never and can never do that given where they're starting from; the only one of those I've seen in my lifetime is the heights of Corbynism - but the sort of politician who can lead the left flank of politics to populism is a rare beast and open to attacks from the actual establishment seeing a threat; there's not one of those currently in Britain. We'll see where we are with Starmer's Labour after a few years.