Frankly, I'm beginning to doubt it tbh.... IMO it's the fact that we, time and time again, choose to have complete and utter SH!TE represent our musical culture...Let's look at the evidence shall we..? Jemini, Daz Sampson, 'Stubbly Man' and now Scootch.... The case for the Prosecution is pretty open and shut let's face it... For years I used to think that Eurovision was an utter joke, but you know what, I'm wrong, it's our approach to Eurovision that is the utter joke.. When someone like Morrissey stands up and says "I want to represent my country", then we are utter fools not to take him up on his offer... It shouldn't even go to a vote, it should be a slam dunker - we should be being represented by Morrissey, end of story.... Or indeed Robbie Williams, or Alison Goldfrapp, Neil Hannon, Jarvis Cocker, Nick Cave, whichever seasoned and proven professional act with a strong songwriting record it happens to be that puts up their hand and says "Let me do it.."....

 

Until we start getting real about this whole thing and pick the right people for the job, then we WILL be humiliated, and we WILL deserve it......

 

No Conspiracy, just a lot of very BAD decisions.....

I agree, it's our own silly fault. People have blamed politics for way too long and it's all a load of balls. -_- Israel are always in the wrong politically, but they deliver a huge song (2005) and finish fourth or wherever they came. The fact that we do send such $h!t or just stuff that doesn't appeal to Europe is our downfall.

I agree -_- But i do think unknown people who can sing really well should be given a chance rather than already famous people, the show is about finding the best song in europe, not some stupid gimmick like we are sending this year, the show should be about finding new talent or showcasing great talent we already have ^_^

I'll post the two posts I put on Lucie Silvas' forums topic about it:

 

I think with a GOOD song, we would do well ... people always have a "it's so political" rant, but when you look at the history it's not true ... in 2002 Jessica Garlick gave an amazing performance of a brilliant song and came third ... since then we've had the ridiculous Teenage Life, the lovely-but-bit-boring James Fox and Javine. I won't mention Jemini. It's clear that when we put a good performer in with a good song we did well ... when we put c**p in, we don't, simple as. The songs we do put forward are, pathetically, a pretty good reflection of the largely dire landscape of the British Chart

 

As for Scooch, good fun, but we won't do well I don't think.

 

BRING BACK JESSICA!!

 

There does seem to be the whole "Eurovision isn't to be taken seriously" thing in the UK, but the thing is that in the rest of Europe it IS taken seriously, and we should treat it as such if we're going to then hypocritically claim that it is important and everyone hates us

 

People vote for Scooch because "it's a very Eurovision song" when it actual fact it isn't. It's a very BRITISH Eurovision song, which will probably lead us to another Eurovision humiliation. If we chose a song which was "very Eurovision" in style, instead of what we think is Eurovision, we'd probably do okay

I'll post the two posts I put on Lucie Silvas' forums topic about it:

 

I think with a GOOD song, we would do well ... people always have a "it's so political" rant, but when you look at the history it's not true ... in 2002 Jessica Garlick gave an amazing performance of a brilliant song and came third ... since then we've had the ridiculous Teenage Life, the lovely-but-bit-boring James Fox and Javine. I won't mention Jemini. It's clear that when we put a good performer in with a good song we did well ... when we put c**p in, we don't, simple as. The songs we do put forward are, pathetically, a pretty good reflection of the largely dire landscape of the British Chart

 

As for Scooch, good fun, but we won't do well I don't think.

 

BRING BACK JESSICA!!

 

There does seem to be the whole "Eurovision isn't to be taken seriously" thing in the UK, but the thing is that in the rest of Europe it IS taken seriously, and we should treat it as such if we're going to then hypocritically claim that it is important and everyone hates us

 

People vote for Scooch because "it's a very Eurovision song" when it actual fact it isn't. It's a very BRITISH Eurovision song, which will probably lead us to another Eurovision humiliation. If we chose a song which was "very Eurovision" in style, instead of what we think is Eurovision, we'd probably do okay

 

I think you have a point in that Scootch does represent the manufactured muzak side of the Brit charts, but I dont regard that sort of thing as music any more than I regard a McDonald's hamburger as proper food... Scootch may represent Manufactured Muzak (which is pretty much the same the whole world over - horrendous, homogenised crud..), but it does not represent the very rich and diverse music culture we have in this country...

CYNDI or HAWKINS & BROWN represent proper music in this country - it's all fecking John Barrowman's fault for going on about 'Think what is a GOOD song and what is a EUROVISION song', that just made the idiots of this country think of Scooch as ideal contenders <_< Cyndi or H&B shoulda WALKED it -_-

CYNDI or HAWKINS & BROWN represent proper music in this country - it's all fecking John Barrowman's fault for going on about 'Think what is a GOOD song and what is a EUROVISION song', that just made the idiots of this country think of Scooch as ideal contenders <_< Cyndi or H&B shoulda WALKED it -_-

 

The 3 of them were all bad contenders in terms of represnting us faithfully...

 

Cyndi's song would never be big here...how many solo female artists have big hits in the UK with big power ballads in 2007? I can't think of any...no one likes Justin Hawkins any more and Scooch's cheese-pop stopped doing well in the UK in 2002...

 

In 5 years we'll probably start sending indie bands as soon as that era has died in the charts...

 

We always send precisely what isn't popular in the UK at the time...

The 3 of them were all bad contenders in terms of represnting us faithfully...

 

Cyndi's song would never be big here...how many solo female artists have big hits in the UK with big power ballads in 2007? I can't think of any...no one likes Justin Hawkins any more and Scooch's cheese-pop stopped doing well in the UK in 2002...

 

In 5 years we'll probably start sending indie bands as soon as that era has died in the charts...

 

We always send precisely what isn't popular in the UK at the time...

 

Well, I surprise you probably are right in their representation...but Cyndi & Hawkins & Brown would've at least gotten us a decent result in Helsinki <_<

I don't think there's any conspiracy aimed at us BUT i definitely think that some other european countries consider who their neighbours are rather than how good the songs are. But then us & ireland tend to give each other higher scores too so it works both ways.

 

If they'd just come up with a really decent song to enter we could win. I can't help but think we're becoming a laughing stock though, especially in the last few years with all the rapping & gimmicy costumes.

These are the five main reasons why we now do badly in the Eurovision Song Contest (IMHO):

 

1. There seems to be resentment against the big 4 countries that, because they basically fund the competition, getting a bye into the final. France and Germany have also had rubbish results recently. In the smaller countries there is a lot of coverage of the first heat (semi-finals) to eliminate the also-rans and we don't feature in that.

 

2. The competition used to be (roughly) Western Europe plus Israel. Now it is dominated by Eastern Europe which is appallingly nationalistic and regionalistic, partly because so many of the countries there used to be part of another bigger country (i.e. part of the former USSR & Yugoslavia) and they swap votes with each other, plus there are more 'Med-eastern' countries that are just not part of our music culture.

 

3. The UK is not popular because it has an unpopular and high profile role in Iraq and is seen, fairly or unfairly, as pro-USA/rejecting of Europe. We last did well in the year before we invaded Iraq and have had our four worst-ever results since.

 

4. There has been huge migration around Europe which means that the idea of not being able to vote for your own country collapses. There is a very good chance the UK will give its highest position yet to Poland - because there are around 1 million Poles now in the UK. Germany repeatedly votes for Turkey - because there are over 1 million Turks in Germany, etc.

 

5. We have got ourselves a negative reputation of treating this competition as a joke because we send non-enties or has-beens to represent us in the ESC. While several of the other countries send acts who are well known and popular within their country and these nations actually want to win the competition.

These are the five main reasons why we now do badly in the Eurovision Song Contest (IMHO):

 

1. There seems to be resentment against the big 4 countries that, because they basically fund the competition, getting a bye into the final. France and Germany have also had rubbish results recently. In the smaller countries there is a lot of coverage of the first heat (semi-finals) to eliminate the also-rans and we don't feature in that.

 

2. The competition used to be (roughly) Western Europe plus Israel. Now it is dominated by Eastern Europe which is appallingly nationalistic and regionalistic, partly because so many of the countries there used to be part of another bigger country (i.e. part of the former USSR & Yugoslavia) and they swap votes with each other, plus there are more 'Med-eastern' countries that are just not part of our music culture.

 

3. The UK is not popular because it has an unpopular and high profile role in Iraq and is seen, fairly or unfairly, as pro-USA/rejecting of Europe. We last did well in the year before we invaded Iraq and have had our four worst-ever results since.

 

4. There has been huge migration around Europe which means that the idea of not being able to vote for your own country collapses. There is a very good chance the UK will give its highest position yet to Poland - because there are around 1 million Poles now in the UK. Germany repeatedly votes for Turkey - because there are over 1 million Turks in Germany, etc.

 

5. We have got ourselves a negative reputation of treating this competition as a joke because we send non-enties or has-beens to represent us in the ESC. While several of the other countries send acts who are well known and popular within their country and these nations actually want to win the competition.

 

Agreed completely

These are the five main reasons why we now do badly in the Eurovision Song Contest (IMHO):

 

1. There seems to be resentment against the big 4 countries that, because they basically fund the competition, getting a bye into the final. France and Germany have also had rubbish results recently. In the smaller countries there is a lot of coverage of the first heat (semi-finals) to eliminate the also-rans and we don't feature in that.

 

2. The competition used to be (roughly) Western Europe plus Israel. Now it is dominated by Eastern Europe which is appallingly nationalistic and regionalistic, partly because so many of the countries there used to be part of another bigger country (i.e. part of the former USSR & Yugoslavia) and they swap votes with each other, plus there are more 'Med-eastern' countries that are just not part of our music culture.

 

3. The UK is not popular because it has an unpopular and high profile role in Iraq and is seen, fairly or unfairly, as pro-USA/rejecting of Europe. We last did well in the year before we invaded Iraq and have had our four worst-ever results since.

 

4. There has been huge migration around Europe which means that the idea of not being able to vote for your own country collapses. There is a very good chance the UK will give its highest position yet to Poland - because there are around 1 million Poles now in the UK. Germany repeatedly votes for Turkey - because there are over 1 million Turks in Germany, etc.

 

5. We have got ourselves a negative reputation of treating this competition as a joke because we send non-enties or has-beens to represent us in the ESC. While several of the other countries send acts who are well known and popular within their country and these nations actually want to win the competition.

 

 

I disagree with just about everything here:

1. What resentment? I mean Spain did well with "Dime" a few years ago because it was a good song (even thou she wasn't

really singing it in tune). You don't have to go any further than last year to see that three of the four were really poor and

coutry music just isn't popular in Europe. I mean if there is such resentment among other nations and not

just that the big four have been sending ridiculous songs wouldn't you expect the four big ones to give points to each other - I mean they have no reason for resenting each other but still last year all gave zeros to each other. That certainly don't supprt

your theory.

 

2. Yes, I think you have partly a good point. But on the other hand one might also argue that, for example, Estonia gives high marks Latvia because the neighbouring countries have often quite similar taste in music (similar heritage etc.). I mean the single chart that resembles most the UK one from week to another is the Irish one. I think that the people in the UK and Ireland have more similar music taste than, let's say, UK and Poland. I haven't seen people arguing that the Irish buy the same singles as Brits because they are neighbouring countries so why that should be the reason why UK is doing so badly in the Eurovision (how many neighbouring countries does Greece have...get my point?).

 

3. Yes, the UK did well before the 21st century but I don't think you can really compare the competition now and, let's say 15 years ago. Then a tenth place was easier to get than now since there was fewer countries there. And does someone really believe that such c**p as Daz or Jemini could have done any better even if the UK wouldn't be in Iraq. I think this is just a really poor excuse to justify poor results that have resulted from really poor song choises (and singing off-tune) - I think we all should just face the facts and not create ridiculous excuses.

 

4. Yes, there is more migration in Europe after the new countries joined the EU a few years ago but: UK had been doing poorly already for several years prior to that (minus Jessica) and how do you explain the wins by Finland and Greece from the past few years since there are VERY few immigrants from those countries in other nations. I mean there are certainly more immigrants from the UK living elsewhere in Europe than from Finland. And what comes to Germany giving full points to Turkey: Yes, I bet it is thanks to the immigrants but so what? They are entitled to vote just like other people in Germany and maybe, just maybe, some of them actually like the Turkish entries and are not just voting for their previous home nation.

 

5. I think the people in the UK are very well-aware of the fact that they think it is all a joke but that is hardly a known fact anywhere else (except maybe Ireland and ESC enthusiasts). I bet a regular person watching it elsewhere in Europe has no idea about this. I think that we are a little too self-centered if we think that this kind of issue would be raised by foreign media to such heights that people would know it. And this being a joke feeling in the UK - I think that the main reason why it has become an issue is that since UK has been doing so badly no-one wants to admit that really poor choices have been made - it is easier to just say that it was just a joke. I mean Lithuania really made a joke last year and many thought it ws funny but I think in the UK people once again (shown even in BJ poll) really thought Daz could do well - it wasn't until after the show when the "we were really jokingand not caring at all" started.

 

Overall I think the UK is doing to bomb this year as equally badly as last year (if somehow the Scootch song cannot be turned into the Lithuania kind of "funny thing" and not the c**p it now is) but it won't be because of any of the reasons above but simply because it is such a poor song. Maybe we should stop finding excuses and actually try to find a decent song. I mean that actually might work...

These are the five main reasons why we now do badly in the Eurovision Song Contest (IMHO):

 

 

2. The competition used to be (roughly) Western Europe plus Israel. Now it is dominated by Eastern Europe which is appallingly nationalistic and regionalistic, partly because so many of the countries there used to be part of another bigger country (i.e. part of the former USSR & Yugoslavia) and they swap votes with each other, plus there are more 'Med-eastern' countries that are just not part of our music culture.

 

Okay, then explain how Finland won last year then if, as you say, the ESC is now 'dominated by Eastern Europe'.. Last time I looked Finland was a Scandinavian country....

 

The whole Iraq thing may play a very small part, but, all in all, I reckon my argument holds up, we send out sh!t, we get sh!t results in return.. Our own fault - end of story....

 

Maybe we should stop finding excuses and actually try to find a decent song. I mean that actually might work...

 

Hear Hear! And let's get one of our best songsmiths to actually do it.... As I have oft repeated, the Beeb's refusal to take Morrissey up on his offer was both misguided and foolish.... But it doesn't necessarily have to be Moz... Let's see what the likes of Jarvis Cocker, Neil Hannon, Richard Ashcroft, Alison Goldfrapp, Massive Attack or Thom Yorke can come up with....

 

Let's see what the likes of Jarvis Cocker, Neil Hannon, Richard Ashcroft, Alison Goldfrapp...

 

I would LOVE to see what Goldfrapp would enter for Eurovision :wub:

I would LOVE to see what Goldfrapp would enter for Eurovision :wub:

 

Same here mate, I reckon we'd actually win the damn thing then....

 

Goldfrapp would do very well I think. ^_^ However if we do $h!t this year, the BBC might FINALLY realise that they need to do something better than MYMU. -_- ie. Going out and finding someone well known and good.

Goldfrapp would do very well I think. ^_^ However if we do $h!t this year, the BBC might FINALLY realise that they need to do something better than MYMU. -_- ie. Going out and finding someone well known and good.

 

Or reverting to internal selection by people who KNOW who will have the best effect when it comes to the draw :cheer: