Sailors captured in Iran apparently 15.

 

I hope everyone in the UK Government has the sense not to escalate the situation.

Mr Blair is already huffing about nothing. :wacko: About time he resigned and allowed someone with decency to deal with running the country.

were they or wernt they? in iranian waters... dunno... dont particualy care tbh, they were doing the job they chose to do and knew the risks. ive little doubt that iran will make a meal out of this before returning them.

 

blair isnt the only incompetant though... who else is there?.

What the fukk were they doing in Iranian territorial waters in the first fukkin' place.... I;m sorry, but Iran is entitled to do what the hell it likes with suspected spies, British or not.....

 

Is this gonna be another "Gulf of Tonkin" incident, where a non-existent attack on a US warship by North Vietnam was used by the Americans as a ridiculous pretext for the Vietnam war...? Get the tabloids to stir people up, "our boys captured by Iranian savages", etc, etc..... Well, if they've been used by the Govt as pawns (which frankly would not surprise me..) then it is the Govt and the British armed forces to blame for putting them in harm's way....

 

Mind you, as Rob said, these guys knew the risks when they signed the contract..... -_-

The worst part is, it could easily serve the same purpose in Iran. The Iranian people are largely unsupportive of a war and extremely unsupportive of Ahmadinejad... what better a way to work them up than to catch a bunch of British soldiers illegally enroaching on Iranian territory...

The worst part is, it could easily serve the same purpose in Iran. The Iranian people are largely unsupportive of a war and extremely unsupportive of Ahmadinejad... what better a way to work them up than to catch a bunch of British soldiers illegally enroaching on Iranian territory...

 

Very true... But the facts are, that we are in the wrong for sending them in there in the first place.. Just what the hell did our 'leaders' hope to achieve by doing this...? Well, apart from justifying the next war in the Middle East that is.... <_<

 

What the fukk were they doing in Iranian territorial waters in the first fukkin' place.... I;m sorry, but Iran is entitled to do what the hell it likes with suspected spies, British or not.....

 

Is this gonna be another "Gulf of Tonkin" incident, where a non-existent attack on a US warship by North Vietnam was used by the Americans as a ridiculous pretext for the Vietnam war...? Get the tabloids to stir people up, "our boys captured by Iranian savages", etc, etc..... Well, if they've been used by the Govt as pawns (which frankly would not surprise me..) then it is the Govt and the British armed forces to blame for putting them in harm's way....

 

Mind you, as Rob said, these guys knew the risks when they signed the contract..... -_-

 

 

apparently the news this morning claims that we have evidence that we WERENT in iranian waters...

apparently the news this morning claims that we have evidence that we WERENT in iranian waters...

 

Yeah, just like we had "evidence" that Saddam Hussein had WMDs capable of striking the UK in 45 minutes.... I believe NOTHING that this Govt says mate, NOTHING.... It's mighty difficult to prove something like that anyway... Ships can easily give out false radar positions, these things can be faked, this is basically how "stealth bombers" operate, so the technology exists. Photographs can also be faked, I dont need to tell you that, just look at all the "photoshopping" and airbrushing done on various celebs which lie to us about how attractive they really are... The camera may not lie, but the developing, editing and photoshopping process sure as hell can, it proves nothing, and also, just why has it taken almost 5 DAYS for these photographs to surface anyway...? Sorry, it sounds about as plausible as those 'documents' which allegedly 'proved' George Galloway received 5 milllion barrels of oil from Saddam Hussein....I dont think the Iranians would just kidnap a bunch of sailors for no reason... I still question what our presence there was actually for.... "routine exercises"...? Don't believe that for a start...

 

This is not the first time that this has happened anyway, in 2004 eight British sailors illegally entered Iranian waters.... It was an "accident" then also apparently, and we were warned in no uncertain terms what would happen were this to occur again....

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3828377.stm

 

Seems an excellent cover to me... The Iraq war is going on, Iran is basically next door, we just send a few of "our boys" to have a peek, purely "by accident" of course.....

Well, events have taken a turn.... Apparently, according to Channel 4 news reports, the Naval personnel themselves have confessed to knowingly being in Iranian territorial waters, and not only this, but Iraqi fishermen who witnessed events have told Iraqi officials that the naval ship was indeed operating outside of Iraqi territorial waters (and who better than a fisherman who has sailed a stretch of water for years and years to know this for a fact......?).. So, now Iraqi officials, who being our allies and all certainly have no reason to lie or give out misinformation which would act in detriment to the UK armed forces, seem to be backing up Iranian accounts of events...

 

Oh dear, oh dear Mr B-Liar..... Caught out again are we.....? <_<

 

Apparently there are no clear demarcation lines between what is and what isn't Iraqi territorial waters.... Mind you, the fishermen seem to know damn fine what does and does not constitute Iraqi territorial waters, perhaps we should be getting our intelligence from Iraqi fishermen instead and asking them to draw up the nautical maps.....

...I wonder what Britain would do if an Iranian military operation was at work in British waters...? :blink:

They weren't in Iranian waters according to British reports. They were abducted from Iraqi waters. There is satellite evidence showing they were 1.7 nautical miles within Iraqi waters. As for their 'confession'. Oh please..... Get real.

 

There was a very interesting interview on Sky News last night with Malcolm Rifkind. Sir Malky was saying he had information that the Iranians had been planning for a couple of weeks to 'apprehend' some British personnel. It was either going to be military personnel, or if they couldn't get them, they were going to take some UK diplomats into custody on some trumped up charges.

 

Sorry but if it comes down to who to believe in this instance I'm going with the Brits and not the mad mullahs of Tehran.

 

 

Oh and Grimly, I saw an interview with another Iraqi fisherman the other night who was equally insistent the British were in Iraqi waters. So maybe the fishermen are not too sure either. :wacko:

 

And the Iranians did the exact same thing a couple of years ago.

From BBC website-

 

 

'UK government says merchant vessel boarded by crew from HMS Cornwall was 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi territorial waters

HMS Cornwall was south-east of merchant ship, inside Iraqi waters

Iranian government initially told UK that merchant vessel was at a point still within Iraqi waters

After UK pointed this out, Iran provided alternative position, within Iranian waters'

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6502947.stm

Edited March 28, 200718 yr by jupiter9

Well, our Govt are a bunch of lying c****uckers, the Iranian Govt are a bunch of lying c****uckers... So, who to believe...? I dont exactly trust anything Malcolm Rifkind says either, he was a lying, corrupt b/astard as well while in office, one of Thatcher's mob.... I thought that the word of the Iraqi fishermen could be the more independent, trustworthy source, but if they're beginning to conflict each other.....

 

I now believe NO ONE on this, simple as, the Iranians are untrustworthy, as is our own Govt and military commanders, let's not make out like we dont have a vested interest here in starting some sh!t off in the Persian Gulf.... This needs to be independently investigated and verified, perhaps by the UN, any investigation team to be made up of representatives of countries in no way connected to this - I would suggest investigators from Germany, Russia, China, Canada, India, Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon....

 

Ultimately though simple solution really - ordinary Iranians, ordinary Brits, revolt, take the power back and shoot every single politician..... :lol:

 

And, by the way, Jupe, in 2004, we DID actually encroach into Iranian territorial waters - FACT!!! The servicemen themselves admitted as much.... If anything, this is us 'at it' again....

I always quite liked Malky. Well, when compared to Mick Forsyth anyway.

 

Why do you think Rifkind would be lying? :unsure:

I always quite liked Malky. Well, when compared to Mick Forsyth anyway.

 

Why do you think Rifkind would be lying? :unsure:

 

He's part of the establishment, always has been... You don't all of a sudden forget where your bread is buttered just because you're not in the Cabinet anymore.... And remember the Tories voted for the war as well.....

 

Oh right. So do you think Tony Blair phoned Rifkind last night to pop up on Sky News with a made up story to make the Iranians look bad? The Lib Dem Foreign Affairs spokey was also very anti-Iran when he was interviewed today. I don't suppose he voted for the War. :unsure:

 

 

Sorry but I don't believe every politician is lying on this one, nor do I believe the British military are lying. I'm afraid unless I see proof from the Iranians I'm going with what the navy is saying.

 

If it turns out the Iranians are correct I'll gladly be the first one on here offering my apologies. ^_^

 

 

Yes, I believe you are correct about the 2004 incident. The navy would have said it was accidental. I'm sure you think otherwise. :P I do know the captured marines were paraded blindfolded and had to undergo mock executions. Sorry but I ain't apologising to Iran for that one. -_-

 

 

I do know the captured marines were paraded blindfolded and had to undergo mock executions. Sorry but I ain't apologising to Iran for that one. -_-

 

And how is that much different to the way the folks in Guantanamo Bay are being treated....? You reckon the West is any more civilised in how it treats people...? The people in Camp X-Ray aren't even soldiers ffs......

 

And dont be ridiculous that the military are somehow incapable of telling porkies when it's in their interests.... The "suicides" at Deep Cut anyone.....?????

 

So you dont reckon that Rifkind all of a sudden coming along with this story of his is a bit convienient then...? How come we never heard anything about this before...?Come on..... If he could actually verify it, then maybe I'll be willing to believe him....

 

Sounds to me like you're in favour of an invasion of Iran.... Yeah, like that'll be a good idea.... You think the Iranians are gonna welcome us with open arms...? Are they fukk.... It'll make Iraq look like a minor skirmish...... The words "utter bloodbath" spring to mind....

Nope. I don't believe I've said anywhere i'm in favour of an invasion of Iran. I just don't automatically believe that everyone in the West is an automatic liar. Oh and I have friends and family in the military. They ain't all liars either.

 

I'm just wondering why you are quite happy to assume it's the Iranians who are telling the truth on this one. Just curious, that's all.

Nope. I don't believe I've said anywhere i'm in favour of an invasion of Iran. I just don't automatically believe that everyone in the West is an automatic liar. Oh and I have friends and family in the military. They ain't all liars either.

 

I'm just wondering why you are quite happy to assume it's the Iranians who are telling the truth on this one. Just curious, that's all.

 

I do believe I said the words "The Iranian Govt are lying co**su**ers".... Alls I'm saying is is that I wouldn't at all be surprised IF we sent in a warship to do a bit of "reconnoitering", I really wouldn't put it past the Govt, would you....??? I'm sure the ordinary rank and file soldiers are only doing their jobs, what I object to are the ones giving the orders, the military hierarchy who are more like Politicians than actual soldiers, who have basically left the ordinary soldiers in Iraq in a totally impossible position and a legal black hole and just washed their hands of the whole sorry mess and said "just get on with it and dont ask questions..."

 

All our soldiers should be sent home from Iraq, bottom line.... They have been failed by their leaders and their Govt time and time again... "Lions led by Donkeys" as George Galloway has quite correctly pointed out....

 

And, I think it's pretty damned obvious even to a brain dead gibbon that our politicians are a bunch of inveterate, compulsive bullsh!tters... I dont automatically believe the Iranians either, but I dont really have much experience of their political establishement, whereas I see every fukkin' DAY the corruption, the lies, the sleaze, the spin of our Political establishment.... I happen to know plenty of Iranians who totally despise their Govt, but at the same time would certainly NOT support Western military action as it would be totally counter-productive...

Eugh I hate the Iranians. :arrr: I don't believe we were in their waters myself, though I guess we'll never know for sure until they're freed. It just makes me feel sick though when the detainees are being made to say all that drivel for the Iranian cameras and such. -_- And that big mass thing today with their PM at was pretty disturbing...

I haven't seen the news tonight. Was it one of those post-Friday prayers 'Death to the Infidels' gatherings ?