i think iran have demonstrated exactly why it wouldnt be a good idea for them to have nukes... they are unstable, liars, religiously lead fanatics... just like bush...lol.

 

joking apart... would you really trust iran not to use it?... sorry, i wouldnt.

joking apart... would you really trust iran not to use it?... sorry, i wouldnt.

 

I dont really trust anyone with a Nuke, bottom line, your comment on Bush illustrates the point that we cant trust him or his cronies either.. But, unfortunately, we cant just uninvent them... If Israel were to give up its nukes, then Iran would have no reason to have one.. The fact that Israel does is destabilising the whole region IMO, and is creating the desire for other countries in the region to develop their own nukes, you know, "what's sauce for the goose.." and all that.... The fact that they did it in such an underhand, totally illegal manner I think just makes things worse... Iran did not start the ME nuclear arms race mate...

 

If we are to follow "Deterrance Theory" (which this country and the US espoused all throughout the Cold War) to its logical conclusion though, surely giving every country its own nuclear weapons capability would actually prevent war....(?)

 

Thing is though, we are only assuming that Iran even is developing a Nuclear weapon, that is what is being forgotten about, there's no real evidence either way to say what their intentions are... What is being talked about, and the reason why all this sh!t happened in the first place, is Uranium enrichement... Well, you have to enrich uranium in order to develop nuclear power... Iran sees any interference on this matter as a breach of its sovereignty, and well, to be honest, they do have a point.. The UN, well, I say UN, but it's really the US and UK who are making most out of this, is saying to them they have to stop enriching, well, they kinda have to do that if they want to have Nuclear power plants to supply power to the country... I just dunno how we can say to them "you can't do this", when it is Tony Blair's policy to do exactly this in spite of what the people of this country thinks...

 

We're just bullies, we really are. Petty, playground bullies...

but isreal hasnt even threatend to use its nukes, it hasnt stopped israel being attacked, so i dont see why iran should desire them! tbh much though i hate to admit it, i trust bush n israel more then some second world unstable country like iran! you dont get jewish or christian suicide bombers, imho i believe that if some mad ayotolla got his hands on them he would use them! after all, allah decrees it! theyll be in paradise! ... i dont believe bush will use them.

 

and thats where the deterrant theory falls down, whilst bush plays at being religious - he isnt really, he doesnt really believe that killing his enemies will result in a place in paradise... unlike the muslims (which in fact i respect them for, they show far more devotion to their doctrine (however wrong i think it might be) then bush and christian run countries) who do really believe it.

but isreal hasnt even threatend to use its nukes, it hasnt stopped israel being attacked, so i dont see why iran should desire them! tbh much though i hate to admit it, i trust bush n israel more then some second world unstable country like iran! you dont get jewish or christian suicide bombers, imho i believe that if some mad ayotolla got his hands on them he would use them! after all, allah decrees it! theyll be in paradise! ... i dont believe bush will use them.

 

and thats where the deterrant theory falls down, whilst bush plays at being religious - he isnt really, he doesnt really believe that killing his enemies will result in a place in paradise... unlike the muslims (which in fact i respect them for, they show far more devotion to their doctrine (however wrong i think it might be) then bush and christian run countries) who do really believe it.

 

It's irrelevant whether Israel has threatened to use its nukes or not, they exist, and by their very nature are a threat when your enemy has one and you dont, therefore the Arabic people DO feel threatened by it, so, as far as I'm concerned have as much right to defend themselves against Israel's nukes as we did to defend ourselves from the Soviet Union. I dont go along with this "oh, we're more civlised so it's okay for us to have one, but not those guys" argument (an arguement we used to try and stop China and Russia from developing their nuclear weapons programmes).. We are NOT more civilised, our and US actions of the past four years or so totally dispute that. I'm amazed that you're defending this disgusting, imperialist, Zionist state Rob after all the sh!t they've caused in the region since it was created. Isreal's the main reason why everything is up the sh!tter in the ME if you ask me... And while you dont get Jewish or Christian suicide bombers, you certainly DO get fanatical Christian or other related religious terrorists in the US blowing up abortion clinics, federal buildings such as the one in Oklahoma and setting up dangerous cults such as Koresh in Waco, ALL of whom are just as devoted to their cause as Abdul with his rucksack on the tube. One anti-arbortionist terrorist who was executed in the States was held up as being a "Christian Martyr" by his followers, so let's not pretend that this sort of fanaticism does not exist in the Christian world... And lets not forget about the Israeli State terrorism that has been occurring for the past 60 years.. And you've also commented yourself on these nutters who go around preaching "armageddon" who seem to have the ear of ol' Georgie boy as well... All it takes if for one of these nutters to get into a position of power (which, given the current political climate in the US is actually more possible than you think it is..), and it'll be bye, bye....

 

And what about those nutters in Japan who released Sarin gas in the Tokyo underground, killing dozens... You get religious loonies EVERYWHERE mate, willing to kill and die for their cause...

is it just me who think that whole sailors press conference looked and sounded set-up, stage managed and fake?

 

I don't believe a word of it.... I think the real story is far more murky and in favour of the Iranian viewpoint.

is it just me who think that whole sailors press conference looked and sounded set-up, stage managed and fake?

 

I don't believe a word of it.... I think the real story is far more murky and in favour of the Iranian viewpoint.

 

Wouldn't surprise me mate.. I really dont think that we are somehow 'above' creating propaganda to suit our own purposes... Far from it in fact.... The whole "dodgy dossier" and the "45 Minute claim" being a very good example of propaganda...

 

The whole episode stinks, simple as, and frankly, I dont trust B-liar any more than I trust Ahmadinejad....

It's irrelevant whether Israel has threatened to use its nukes or not, they exist, and by their very nature are a threat when your enemy has one and you dont, therefore the Arabic people DO feel threatened by it, so, as far as I'm concerned have as much right to defend themselves against Israel's nukes as we did to defend ourselves from the Soviet Union. I dont go along with this "oh, we're more civlised so it's okay for us to have one, but not those guys" argument (an arguement we used to try and stop China and Russia from developing their nuclear weapons programmes).. We are NOT more civilised, our and US actions of the past four years or so totally dispute that. I'm amazed that you're defending this disgusting, imperialist, Zionist state Rob after all the sh!t they've caused in the region since it was created. Isreal's the main reason why everything is up the sh!tter in the ME if you ask me... And while you dont get Jewish or Christian suicide bombers, you certainly DO get fanatical Christian or other related religious terrorists in the US blowing up abortion clinics, federal buildings such as the one in Oklahoma and setting up dangerous cults such as Koresh in Waco, ALL of whom are just as devoted to their cause as Abdul with his rucksack on the tube. One anti-arbortionist terrorist who was executed in the States was held up as being a "Christian Martyr" by his followers, so let's not pretend that this sort of fanaticism does not exist in the Christian world... And lets not forget about the Israeli State terrorism that has been occurring for the past 60 years.. And you've also commented yourself on these nutters who go around preaching "armageddon" who seem to have the ear of ol' Georgie boy as well... All it takes if for one of these nutters to get into a position of power (which, given the current political climate in the US is actually more possible than you think it is..), and it'll be bye, bye....

 

And what about those nutters in Japan who released Sarin gas in the Tokyo underground, killing dozens... You get religious loonies EVERYWHERE mate, willing to kill and die for their cause...

 

 

nope... you have not conviinced me m8... it aint a case of supporting the west so much as not supporting the east. we ARE more civilised, we dont go around stoning women, cutting heads off, blowing ourselves up in the belief that god wants us too.. the west might be far from perfect, but its a damn site better then the east m8.

hold on.. i dont get it... arab countries attack israel because they feel threatend by israels nukes?... that doesnt make sense!

hold on.. i dont get it... arab countries attack israel because they feel threatend by israels nukes?... that doesnt make sense!

They also attack them out of a mix of a) revenge for the Six-Day War, Yom Kippur War, etc. b ) anti-Semitism (not all, but most of them do have obviously anti-Semitic policies...) and c) a sense of outrage at the invasion of Palestinian territory. The fact that Israel have nukes just inflames the situation :(

hold on.. i dont get it... arab countries attack israel because they feel threatend by israels nukes?... that doesnt make sense!

 

I think the whole "stealing land off of fellow Arabs" thing plays a pretty damn important part in it too mate.... You seem to forget that once upon a time Palestinians, Iranians, Iraqis, Lebanese, etc were all part of a big Persian Empire... And Tyron is correct about Yom Kippur, the six day war, etc.... ALL of this just inflames a sense of injustice.. Well, actually the injustice is totally real, and it's something that the UN continues to do absolutely NOTHING about.... Mainly because the Yanks and the Brits spend most of their time VETOING UN resolutions..... <_< It's really no wonder that the Arab countries feel that they have to take matters into their own hands - the International Community has totally failed them....

 

nope... you have not conviinced me m8... it aint a case of supporting the west so much as not supporting the east. we ARE more civilised, we dont go around stoning women, cutting heads off, blowing ourselves up in the belief that god wants us too.. the west might be far from perfect, but its a damn site better then the east m8.

 

Okay, we dont stone people to death or cut heads off....NAH, we just illegally invade sovereign nations, threaten others to 'do what we tell them to do or they're gonna be next', allow multinational corporations to steal billions of dollars in oil money from indigenous populations, commit mass murder with stealth bombers, cluster bombs and 'daisy cutter' bombs, use depleted uranium rounds which cause leaukemia and various other cancers, continue to support human rights violations by Israel against the Palestinians and supply them with the weapons to continue those violations, torture and humiliate innocent civilians in places like Abu Ghraib, illegally "render" people off the streets and transport them to Guantanamo Bay and Bellmarsh prison where they are denied legal representation and, again, are tortured, beaten and humiliated..... You want me to go on..? I'll be making a list up all night.....

 

This is the actions of a "civilised" society??? FUKK OFF!!!! <_<

 

Sorry for being so strong mate, but really, I am getting a bit sick of repeating myself here.....

 

And, as someone once said, "there's nothing civil about war".....

b ) anti-Semitism (not all, but most of them do have obviously anti-Semitic policies...)

 

Yeah, sure, there is a bit of Anti-Semitism about it, but put it this way, how would YOU feel if some bunch of invaders were to come along and just take it upon themselves to annexe a big part of Europe because "God said they were 'chosen people' and God promised them this land" and then proceeded to 'ethnically cleanse' the area.... It would probably make you pretty anti those people don't you think...?

b ) anti-Semitism (not all, but most of them do have obviously anti-Semitic policies...)

 

Yeah, sure, there is a bit of Anti-Semitism about it, but put it this way, how would YOU feel if some bunch of invaders were to come along and just take it upon themselves to annexe a big part of Europe because "God said they were 'chosen people' and God promised them this land" and then proceeded to 'ethnically cleanse' the area.... It would probably make you pretty anti those people don't you think...?

I can see where you're coming from, but personally it would make me far more anti-Israel than anti-Semitic, which is the way I feel now, seeing as there isn't even a NEED for a Jewish state, let alone in such a volatile area as the Middle East. It would be FAR simpler now if Herzl had accepted Chamberlain's offer of Uganda, but the Zionist Congress decided it was inappropriate and that they had to go to their 'homeland' based on a dodgy interpretation of ancient texts...I find it quite ironic that it is now thought that their true homeland based on these texts may actually be Yemen, possibly one of the most uninhabitable areas in the Middle East...I can see why the Zionist Congress would have preferred somewhere like Palestine over Yemen, even if there probably would have been a LOT less trouble had they been given Yemen...

Yeah, sure, there is a bit of Anti-Semitism about it, but put it this way, how would YOU feel if some bunch of invaders were to come along and just take it upon themselves to annexe a big part of Europe because "God said they were 'chosen people' and God promised them this land" and then proceeded to 'ethnically cleanse' the area.... It would probably make you pretty anti those people don't you think...?

I can see where you're coming from, but personally it would make me far more anti-Israel than anti-Semitic, which is the way I feel now, seeing as there isn't even a NEED for a Jewish state, let alone in such a volatile area as the Middle East. It would be FAR simpler now if Herzl had accepted Chamberlain's offer of Uganda, but the Zionist Congress decided it was inappropriate and that they had to go to their 'homeland' based on a dodgy interpretation of ancient texts...I find it quite ironic that it is now thought that their true homeland based on these texts may actually be Yemen, possibly one of the most uninhabitable areas in the Middle East...I can see why the Zionist Congress would have preferred somewhere like Palestine over Yemen, even if there probably would have been a LOT less trouble had they been given Yemen...

 

Harldy gonna take Yemen though are they...? Far more fertile pickings in Palestine..... The problem is, is that the Israelis go on about the whole "Jewish State" so much, and try to separate the Jewish Israelis from the Arab ones, instead of just saying that everyone is Israeli and has equal status... Arab Israelis do NOT have the same legal or civil status as Jewish Isrealis, Arab Isrealis are very much second-class citizens, similar to how the blacks were treated in South Africa during Apartheid... I think you have to be a bit more specific when talking about what you are actually against... Saying merely "Anti Israeli" is not enough, because then you would be indirectly anti the Arab Israelis who are victims of the Zionist State, which I'm sure is not your intention... I think maybe saying "Anti Zionist" is probably a better way to describe it...

 

I'd read somewhere about the British Govt offering the Jews a chunk of Africa, and when the Zionist movement first started in the late 19th Century, it was originally the plan to settle in the High Plains in Kenya...... Zionism was not originally the evil that it is now, back then it was purely about POLITICAL struggle and a fight for equality, later on it would unfortunately take on a fanatical religious dimension....

Harldy gonna take Yemen though are they...? Far more fertile pickings in Palestine..... The problem is, is that the Israelis go on about the whole "Jewish State" so much, and try to separate the Jewish Israelis from the Arab ones, instead of just saying that everyone is Israeli and has equal status... Arab Israelis do NOT have the same legal or civil status as Jewish Isrealis, Arab Isrealis are very much second-class citizens, similar to how the blacks were treated in South Africa during Apartheid... I think you have to be a bit more specific when talking about what you are actually against... Saying merely "Anti Israeli" is not enough, because then you would be indirectly anti the Arab Israelis who are victims of the Zionist State, which I'm sure is not your intention... I think maybe saying "Anti Zionist" is probably a better way to describe it...

 

I'd read somewhere about the British Govt offering the Jews a chunk of Africa, and when the Zionist movement first started in the late 19th Century, it was originally the plan to settle in the High Plains in Kenya...... Zionism was not originally the evil that it is now, back then it was purely about POLITICAL struggle and a fight for equality, later on it would unfortunately take on a fanatical religious dimension....

Yeah, that was the whole Uganda thing, now I think it is actually part of Kenya, the Russians stormed out of the Zionist Congress because they thought it would harm their chances of getting Palestine, so they rejected the

 

And in that case, I'm probably anti-Zionist then, anti-Semitism is hardly all that prominent anymore and Zionism has, as you said, evolved into something completely different to what it was when Herzl realised that Jews weren't safe after the Dreyfuss Affair, and it's incredibly sad that it has because it has transcended its original meaning into something FAR more ugly - especially with the despicable way they continue to treat Mordechai Vanunu et al for revealing something which could have jepoardised the entire planet otherwise <_< And as you say, the international community does NOTHING, even though these are the oil-providing countries they should actually be PROTECTING -_-

tbh i dont think the m.o.d. has done itself any favours by allowing these ex captives to publish their ordeal for money... i was happy enough to accept the m.o.d. was probably telling us the truth, but this stunt has raised my suspicions... it didnt have to do that... it appears to be overstating its case

I'm not bothered about them selling their stories as long as the money goes to a worthy cause tbh...

straight in their pocket i believe ...:)

Faye Turney is on Tonight at 8.00pm tonight on ITV1.

The MOD have banned them from selling their stories now.