IMMIGRANTS from the EU’s newest member states are pushing down wages and stopping British workers finding jobs, Tony Blair was warned yesterday.

And the Prime Minister later appeared to agree when he acknowledged that eastern European immigrants were making the labour market “intensely competitiveâ€.

 

The concerns were voiced by Lord Turner, who led the Pensions Review Commission and the Low Pay Commission, which sets the minimum wage.

 

He raised the issue at a seminar the Prime Minister held ahead of a major speech on the future of work yesterday.

 

Lord Turner said that the willingness of some immigrants to work illegally for below the minimum wage appeared to be depressing wages for low-paid workers. He added this made it harder to persuade the unskilled long-term unemployed to find jobs and could also hold back future increases in the minimum wage.

 

His fears are said to be shared by ministers at the Department for Work and Pensions, although Government statistics have not yet shown a link between falling wages and eastern European immigration.

 

In a lecture to business leaders in Manchester, Mr Blair said: “New migrant workers, many of them from eastern Europe, make the jobs market intensely competitive.â€

 

Citizens of new EU states such as Poland have been free to travel around Europe since their countries joined the EU in 2004. Britain was one of the few existing member states to give them full work rights. The Government has set a 20,000-a-year limit on workers allowed here from Romania and Bulgaria, which joined the union on January 1 this year, although this does not cover self-employed or illegal workers.

Can we PLEASE stop this bullsh!t that it is the fault of the workers here... I am totally sick of hearing the same thing over and over again... It is NOT the fault of the workers, it is the fault of unscrupulous, penny-pinching employers who are only to willing to flout the law and exploit these workers... The workere are NOT breaking the law, the EMPLOYERS are, and they damn well know it too, since when does an employee decide what they get paid...? <_< So what if some workers are willing..? Are they actually so 'willing', or is it the fact that it is Employers are only too damn eager to make the offer in the first place... I rather suspect the latter..... Any good employer would say "No, the law says I cannot allow you to work below minimum wage", it is the bad ones who are cutting corners, and more than likely are guilty of tax evasion, cooking their books and VAT fraud as well.... <_<

 

Let's just get this straight, yeah....? The enemy is the employers who exploit their workforces, NOT the immigrants who only want to make a decent living....

 

Yet more racist, anti East European c**p... And I am fukkin' sick of hearing it.... :angry: It's about time these bloody politicians started targeting businesses who ARE paying below minimum wage and really taking them to the fukkin' cleaners...

i dont believe for one moment that every employer who is paying below the minimum wage is doing so by unscrupulous means... i know of migrants who ARE willing to work for below the minimum wage as its better then no wage and a damn sight more then what they would get 'back home' so they are happy about it. this is what im hearing time and time again from fellow tradesmen. as i see it they are both equally as bad as eachother.

i dont believe for one moment that every employer who is paying below the minimum wage is doing so by unscrupulous means... i know of migrants who ARE willing to work for below the minimum wage as its better then no wage and a damn sight more then what they would get 'back home' so they are happy about it. this is what im hearing time and time again from fellow tradesmen. as i see it they are both equally as bad as eachother.

 

Oh please Rob, you have way too much faith in the honour of Capitalists... A Capitalist, as Michael Moore correctly points out, "would actually sell you the rope that you would then use to hang him if it made him a quick buck...".

 

So, these Employers are just "doing these guys a favour" by paying them below the going rate....? Please, my aching sides.... :rofl: :rofl:

 

The building/Construction trade especially is full of fly-by-night, jack-the-lad, cowboy motherfukkers who would rip off your granny... Haven't you ever seen the BBC "Rogue Traders" programme...? Shocking....

 

Before it was Eastern Europeans, it was the Irish labourers that this was being done to.. "No questions asked, cash-in-hand, nudge-nudge-wink-wink"....

ive heard tales by fellow tradesmen of migrants pleading with potential employers and OFFERING their services on the cheap, they were given employment where no position existed and for a wage albeit below the minimum that the migrants were happy with.

 

the picture you paint of greedy capitalists exploiting poor dumb migrants isnt in many cases the reality of it... it aint all one way, it aint all black and white m8.

ive heard tales by fellow tradesmen of migrants pleading with potential employers and OFFERING their services on the cheap, they were given employment where no position existed and for a wage albeit below the minimum that the migrants were happy with.

 

the picture you paint of greedy capitalists exploiting poor dumb migrants isnt in many cases the reality of it... it aint all one way, it aint all black and white m8.

 

Well, I've read stories of certain construction bosses claiming in their books that they are paying employees amount "X", when in fact it was amount "Y" and pocketing the difference..... Fraud, I think you'd call that.....

 

If this is actually happening, it's still exploitation regardless, still an abuse of the employment and labour laws of this country, because, at the very least, the employer should be paying the basic minimum, end of story... I dont believe for a minute that they cant afford to pay these guys £5.75 an hour.... I have NEVER seen a 'poor' site foreman, manager or construction boss..... The facts are, this practice has been going on for years and years long before EU expansion and EE migrants, the minimum wage act was supposed to stop it, these guys are getting away with murder...

 

It has to end. NOW....

Well, I've read stories of certain construction bosses claiming in their books that they are paying employees amount "X", when in fact it was amount "Y" and pocketing the difference..... Fraud, I think you'd call that.....

 

 

indeed it does, but its not all bosses.

indeed it does, but its not all bosses.

 

Doesn't alter the fact that it happens mate, and it's a bit more prevalent than you think.. The construction industry is rather dodgy... And it just seems to me that the authorities turn a blind eye to a lot of things that go on... Couldn't have anything to do with big Party 'donations' I suppose, could it...? :thinking:

 

and a damn sight more then what they would get 'back home'

 

That's just a pretty lame argument and it gets lamer every time I hear it... Whether or not in actual monetary terms it's better than a wage back home is utterly irrelevant, wages must reflect the cost of living for a particular country where a person is actually living, what they would've got paid back home has no bearing on things cos they aint living in Warsaw or Prague, they're living here.. EE countries have a lower cost of living than UK, Scandinavia, etc, so the 'lower wage' reflects that... The whole reason the minimum wage was brought in in this country was to do just this - reflect the cost of living.. Mind you, it's far from perfect, try living in London or the SE on the minimum wage, not easy...

 

So, I'm sorry, but this arguement really cuts no ice with me... And I could easily use inverse logic and say because I'm more used to a higher wage coming from UK, then that means I should be paid double what a Polish worker would get if I decided to move to Warsaw or Krakow.... And I dont think the British lads who went out to work on French and German construction sites were paid any less than their French or German counterparts back in the 80s.... AND, I bet plenty of them sent most of their wages back to family in UK too....

 

Nope, it seems pretty clear to me, the good nature, willingness to graft and the strong work ethic of these EE lads is being totally taken advantage of. Still, it all helps Brown's "Economic Miracle" dunnit....?

but these migrant workers ARNT living here as the english do, they have neither the same skills training, health and safety, FAMILY or MORTGAGE to support here... like the local marquee hire place up our road. the boss bought a local house, employed eastern europeans and housed them in there, let them work all the hours they wanted, they lived cheaply and sent the money home to their families! our lads who live here with a family to support and a mortgage just couldnt afford to work for the minimum wage.

 

i dont buy the poor old johnny foreigner is being ripped off c**p.. no one is forcing them to come here nor work for the wages they work for.... they arnt slaves, they are free to come and go... they are taking the p*** out of us who do have to live here at our prices with no escape. i dont doubt their work ethic, but it simply aint a level playing field.

 

you reckon that the olympic stadium wouldnt be built by our lads... why?.. because our lads would be working for a decent wage that provided for their families, migrant workers are living in cheap digs and are sending the money home. and just what do you think is a fair living wage for our skilled workers? a damn site more then the minimum wage thats for sure!

 

the tradesmen i know are all decent hard working skilled individuals, and i find it rather offensive that you are so dismissive them.

going off the header... yes migrants will push down wages, of course they will! flood the market with labour and the fat cats then have the excuse to lower wages, below what our lads can afford to work for.

but these migrant workers ARNT living here as the english do, they have neither the same skills training, health and safety, FAMILY or MORTGAGE to support here... like the local marquee hire place up our road. the boss bought a local house, employed eastern europeans and housed them in there, let them work all the hours they wanted, they lived cheaply and sent the money home to their families! our lads who live here with a family to support and a mortgage just couldnt afford to work for the minimum wage.

 

i dont buy the poor old johnny foreigner is being ripped off c**p.. no one is forcing them to come here nor work for the wages they work for.... they arnt slaves, they are free to come and go... they are taking the p*** out of us who do have to live here at our prices with no escape. i dont doubt their work ethic, but it simply aint a level playing field.

 

you reckon that the olympic stadium wouldnt be built by our lads... why?.. because our lads would be working for a decent wage that provided for their families, migrant workers are living in cheap digs and are sending the money home. and just what do you think is a fair living wage for our skilled workers? a damn site more then the minimum wage thats for sure!

 

the tradesmen i know are all decent hard working skilled individuals, and i find it rather offensive that you are so dismissive them.

 

You're seriously beginning to sound like a BNP poster advert to be honest... And anyway, who the fukk says I'm dismissive of actual tradesmen (apart from the crooked ones that is)...? I think you'll find that most of my criticism has been aimed at the bosses.... I find your attitude towards decent hard working guys from other countries to be entirely offensive, how the fukk can you say they're taking the p!ss when it's a case that they are having the p!ss taken out of them (you seem to forget your history mate, before it was workers from EE and other places it was IRISH labourers that were being fukked by greedy factory, mill and shipyard bosses, my own Great Grandfather, of Irish stock, being one of the legions of underpaid Irish 'navvies' who only received half of what their British counterparts did in terms of a wage.. Not for nothing were the Irish referred to as the "N****rs of Europe"... <_< )..? It aint as if we dont go off and do the same thing... Plenty of British tradesmen work in foreign countries - Europe, Asia, Arabic countries and they certainly dont seem to fall prey to the same hostility towards them as EE workers over here... And just how the fukk do you know that these guys dont have mortgages back home to pay off...? A lot do actually, and why the hell shouldn't they work over here to try and pay it off...? Our lads did in the 80s (mind you, they kinda HAD to when Thacher destroyed this country's manufacturing and heavy industry base....) when they went off to Germany, France and Austria.... The whole "Auf Wiedersehen Pet" thing wasn't just something that someone made up you know....

 

But I do not apologize for being dismissive of the rip-off artists, the scam merchants and downright lazy b/astards who seem to infest the building trade and give it a bad name, you can deny it all you want mate, it happens; try watching "Rogue Traders" sometime and just count how many Polish or EE tradesmen they catch out, not bloody many, and the show's been going for a few years... You wanna talk about big stadium contracts, well.....how many years has it taken to build Wembley....? How much over budget is it....? Multiplex, an AUSTRALIAN company employing a mainly UK workforce involved in that one... But on a more personal level, do you know the trouble I've had to get a British plumber to come out and have a look at my shower that needed fixing..? A LOT, people claiming they bloody called and no one was home WHEN THERE DAMN WELL WAS!!!!! <_< <_< A few others saying "oh, sorry, the job's too small for us mate.." The bloke who eventually DID come to fix it was ARABIC.... None of "our boys" were in the least bit interested.... -_-

 

And you keep on insisting that Polish or other EE workers dont have the same skills WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!! How many times do I have to tell you that these guys are learning trades at state schools, technical colleges, apprenticeships, etc.... I'm really getting a bit sick of repeating myself..... Hence the bold, italic, BIG letters..... Maybe you'll actually get it this time.... You know absolutely nothing about the Polish education system, but I do, because I have plenty of mates from Poland and my girlfriend is from Poland as you well know, and they all talk about it.... In fact, frankly I rather suspect Polish state education is actually better than ours.... Hmmm, maybe I'll send my kids to school in Poland, they'll probably turn out a lot better mannered and more respectful than the little chav scum infesting our city streets.....

And you keep on insisting that Polish or other EE workers dont have the same skills WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!! How many times do I have to tell you that these guys are learning trades at state schools, technical colleges, apprenticeships, etc.... I'm really getting a bit sick of repeating myself..... Hence the bold, italic, BIG letters..... Maybe you'll actually get it this time.... You know absolutely nothing about the Polish education system, but I do, because I have plenty of mates from Poland and my girlfriend is from Poland as you well know, and they all talk about it.... In fact, frankly I rather suspect Polish state education is actually better than ours.... Hmmm, maybe I'll send my kids to school in Poland, they'll probably turn out a lot better mannered and more respectful than the little chav scum infesting our city streets.....

 

There are a LOT of Polish people where I live (Chicago) and a whole lot of them went to my university here. I have to say that many of them were highly educated in Poland, engineers, doctors and lawyers and such. I don't know much about the current situation there but so many of them seemed to give up years of education to come and start with little or nothing here. I was friends with a girl who was a skilled and trained engineer in Warsaw, who then moved here, discovered her credits wouldn't transfer and began her education and career all over again. Are there just no jobs in Poland or what??

You're seriously beginning to sound like a BNP poster advert to be honest... And anyway, who the fukk says I'm dismissive of actual tradesmen (apart from the crooked ones that is)...? I think you'll find that most of my criticism has been aimed at the bosses.... I find your attitude towards decent hard working guys from other countries to be entirely offensive, how the fukk can you say they're taking the p!ss when it's a case that they are having the p!ss taken out of them (you seem to forget your history mate, before it was workers from EE and other places it was IRISH labourers that were being fukked by greedy factory, mill and shipyard bosses, my own Great Grandfather, of Irish stock, being one of the legions of underpaid Irish 'navvies' who only received half of what their British counterparts did in terms of a wage.. Not for nothing were the Irish referred to as the "N****rs of Europe"... <_< )..? It aint as if we dont go off and do the same thing... Plenty of British tradesmen work in foreign countries - Europe, Asia, Arabic countries and they certainly dont seem to fall prey to the same hostility towards them as EE workers over here... And just how the fukk do you know that these guys dont have mortgages back home to pay off...? A lot do actually, and why the hell shouldn't they work over here to try and pay it off...? Our lads did in the 80s (mind you, they kinda HAD to when Thacher destroyed this country's manufacturing and heavy industry base....) when they went off to Germany, France and Austria.... The whole "Auf Wiedersehen Pet" thing wasn't just something that someone made up you know....

 

But I do not apologize for being dismissive of the rip-off artists, the scam merchants and downright lazy b/astards who seem to infest the building trade and give it a bad name, you can deny it all you want mate, it happens; try watching "Rogue Traders" sometime and just count how many Polish or EE tradesmen they catch out, not bloody many, and the show's been going for a few years... You wanna talk about big stadium contracts, well.....how many years has it taken to build Wembley....? How much over budget is it....? Multiplex, an AUSTRALIAN company employing a mainly UK workforce involved in that one... But on a more personal level, do you know the trouble I've had to get a British plumber to come out and have a look at my shower that needed fixing..? A LOT, people claiming they bloody called and no one was home WHEN THERE DAMN WELL WAS!!!!! <_< <_< A few others saying "oh, sorry, the job's too small for us mate.." The bloke who eventually DID come to fix it was ARABIC.... None of "our boys" were in the least bit interested.... -_-

 

And you keep on insisting that Polish or other EE workers dont have the same skills WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!! How many times do I have to tell you that these guys are learning trades at state schools, technical colleges, apprenticeships, etc.... I'm really getting a bit sick of repeating myself..... Hence the bold, italic, BIG letters..... Maybe you'll actually get it this time.... You know absolutely nothing about the Polish education system, but I do, because I have plenty of mates from Poland and my girlfriend is from Poland as you well know, and they all talk about it.... In fact, frankly I rather suspect Polish state education is actually better than ours.... Hmmm, maybe I'll send my kids to school in Poland, they'll probably turn out a lot better mannered and more respectful than the little chav scum infesting our city streets.....

 

 

and you sound like a daily mail reading fascist! looking down your nose at the vast majority of tradesmen, you seem to regard that silly rogue traders programme as the norm! ... pmsl.. man you ought to get out abit, typical student attitude, meet some real guys. :P

 

i know that many are unreliable when it comes to call outs, as for jobs being too small... well if you were self employed youd understand that one m8. you cant afford to work for nowt, why earn £20 when you could be earning £50?...

 

theres no simularity between the irish and todays lot at all.. society has changed. the irish had no choice they were exploited... the migrants today have every choice.

 

ive never doubted migrants work ethic, but again, its an unlevel playing field.... skilled or not they are undercutting our lads whos financial and business costs are considerably more then 'johnny foreigners'. its abit like auf weidersein pet in reverse! itll only be a level playing field and our lads will stop being undercut when the migrants bring their families here and comply to our health and safety regs, plus get a mortgage, plus run their businesses properly.

 

how can the polish education system be better then ours? if its so very nice and respectful over there why tf do they come here? if they are so clever why arnt they busy re-building their country? summut dont add up..

 

of course these migrants arnt theiving robbing begging chavs are they? <_< these migrants have never robbed, begged, raped, mugged, have they... they are ALL decent law abiding citizens! theres scum in every society m8 and these migrants have also committed crimes here.

 

 

and you sound like a daily mail reading fascist! looking down your nose at the vast majority of tradesmen, you seem to regard that silly rogue traders programme as the norm! ... pmsl.. man you ought to get out abit, typical student attitude, meet some real guys. :P

 

i know that many are unreliable when it comes to call outs, as for jobs being too small... well if you were self employed youd understand that one m8. you cant afford to work for nowt, why earn £20 when you could be earning £50?...

 

theres no simularity between the irish and todays lot at all.. society has changed. the irish had no choice they were exploited... the migrants today have every choice.

 

ive never doubted migrants work ethic, but again, its an unlevel playing field.... skilled or not they are undercutting our lads whos financial and business costs are considerably more then 'johnny foreigners'. its abit like auf weidersein pet in reverse! itll only be a level playing field and our lads will stop being undercut when the migrants bring their families here and comply to our health and safety regs, plus get a mortgage, plus run their businesses properly.

 

how can the polish education system be better then ours? if its so very nice and respectful over there why tf do they come here? if they are so clever why arnt they busy re-building their country? summut dont add up..

 

of course these migrants arnt theiving robbing begging chavs are they? <_< these migrants have never robbed, begged, raped, mugged, have they... they are ALL decent law abiding citizens! theres scum in every society m8 and these migrants have also committed crimes here.

 

Don't make excuses for them, in my book when you say you're gonna do a job, you should do it, not give out lame-ass excuses and make people waste AN ENTIRE FUKKIN' DAY sitting at home and waiting... <_< I wouldn't have even cared if they'd left it til literally their last job of the day and came over in the evening, just so long as they'd actually turned up.... The Arabic guy was self-employed too, he did the job, he turned up on time, he was quick and didn't stop every five sodding minutes for a cup of tea to drag the job out and make it last longer than necessary, I respect him a lot more than our lazy lot who just gave me bullsH!t over the phone... How the fukk is THAT being "real" with people....? I dont regard that as being real at all mate, simple as, I regard it as being entirely FALSE and two faced... And, technically, doing the job that I do as a Support Worker for students with disabilitites, I AM actually self-employed, I have to pay my own taxes and NI, no PAYE mate... I regularly take on odd jobs that'll only last for one lecture cos another Support worker might be sick.. I dont bullsh!t people around and say I'll do it and then decide, "Naaah, it aint worth my while for just one afternoon" and let the person down when they need me.... It would be totally inexcusable..... So, fukkin' PARDON ME if I expect at least the same courtesy from one of our "wonderful tradesmen" when I need something done.... <_< And just what happened to the old ethos of "no job too big or small"?? My own Uncle was a tradesman, and he would NEVER turn down work, but then his generation of Tradesman had a totally different attitude to the lazy, pykie, wide-boy chav b/astards we seem to have infesting the building trade in this day and age, didn't they...? <_< They really are letting the side down and giving the industry a bad rep... Nope, sorry mate, but after the experiences I've had (and not just in this one instance I mention..), I'm afraid it's gonna be me phoning up Polish, Greek or Arabic guys from now on.... And if more people like me are gonna getting p!ssed off enough to do this, then the Brit guys are just gonna be cutting off their own noses to spite their face by acting the way they are... Silly sods...

 

And people dont need to have reasons for moving from ONE European country to another... It's called "freedom of movement" mate, if I wanted to move somewhere like France, Germany or Poland I wouldn't need to give any reasons either, it is MY FREEDOM OF CHOICE.... As for "running businesses properly"... How do you know that they dont...? And if there is a certain bit of dodginess going on, well, doesn't make them any different to a fair few of our own businesses who 'cook the books' and engage in VAT fraud really does it...?

 

How is the Polish state education system better..? Simple, it hasn't been destroyed and chronically underfunded by a scummy Govt for years like we had under the Tories, the teaching hasn't been crippled under the weight of ever-changing systems, unnecessary bureaucracy and 'Political Correctness'..... No "league tables", no illusion of "parental choice" (the kids go to the school which is closest to them..), and all state schools have equal funding.... Oh yeah, and there is the small matter that the kids actually have some respect for the teachers and teachers are in control of the class... I've yet to hear of any Polish teachers being stabbed, assaulted or raped by feral chav kids....

 

And I'm sorry, but you're wrong, in terms of the levels of exploitation, the similarities between the Irish labourers and EE workers is very comparable... You just refuse to see it because you're believing all the Capitalist propaganda... A lot of these guys are being hired by UK based agencies on short-term contracts, these agencies are taking about a quarter or a third of their wage and claiming that it's 'administration costs' - FACT!!! If that aint exploitation, then I dont know what the fukk is... The style of exploitation may have changed since the days of the Irish navvies, it's gotten more sophisticated, but it remains exploitation regardless... You seriously need to wake up mate and see what's really going on, and see who the real villains are here... The backs of the workers - both British AND non-British - are being broken by Capitalists and exploiters.... You, as a Working Class person, should be disgusted by it, but instead you seem to come down on the side of the exploiters as well as foolishly buying into right-wing, "anti-immigrant" BNP/UKIP propaganda... I am very disappointed in you....

 

What we need is another Karl Marx, another "Labour Movement", more powerful Unions...

There are a LOT of Polish people where I live (Chicago) and a whole lot of them went to my university here. I have to say that many of them were highly educated in Poland, engineers, doctors and lawyers and such. I don't know much about the current situation there but so many of them seemed to give up years of education to come and start with little or nothing here. I was friends with a girl who was a skilled and trained engineer in Warsaw, who then moved here, discovered her credits wouldn't transfer and began her education and career all over again. Are there just no jobs in Poland or what??

 

The economy's a bit fukked to be honest, but not much worse than a lot of places... But, after years of Communist repression, I think a lot of it is a case of "We're finally free to move around the world...", so a lot of them are doing just that because now they actually can.... It's like if someone stopped you from doing something for years and years, and then finally someone else said, "now you can do it"... What would your reaction be....? It'd be the first thing you'd do innit...? :lol:

 

But now, you've got this other lot coming around and saying "Well, okay, maybe you can, but we don't really want you to.... But, hey, the same rule doesn't apply to us, 'cos we're white Westerners and the world belongs to us..." <_<

well i agree that they should turn up and do the job if they said they would... but what do you expect to pay? i regularly turn down work that 'doesnt pay', im not a fookin charity! i need to make a certain amount of money for my business to survive, thats how it works for tradesmen, we arnt a social service, we have overheads, we need to make a living.

 

your view on tradesmen is very jaundiced which is why i suggest you get out and meet some real ones! instead of citing 'rogue traders' and classing all tradesmen as 'lazy pykies' id suggest you watch other home improvement programmes and see the skills that the majority of tradesmen emply. whilst the building trade is plagued by cowboys out for an easy fix, the vast majority (i know people personally) are highly skilled, hard working, ordinary blokes trying to earn a decent living.

 

freedom of choice.... EXACTLY! those people chose to move here to work, in the past the irish etc simply didnt have the choice, they were owned!

 

capitalist propaganda?... you should know me better then that! i make my decisions on the facts that i encounter first hand, or by first hand accounts off the shop floor... i dont and never have believed anything the media tells me unless i can corroborate it myself.

 

im fully aware that there are gang masters/agencies that are exploiting migrant workers, which i dont agree with.. however it doesnt change the fact that (again) it isnt a level playing field with these workers doing skilled work at a fraction of the cost that our lads can do it at, due to the fact that these workers are living in cheap accomodation provided by the agencies/bosses and are being paid low wages. you get migrant workers coming here and being able to live cheaper then a self employed bloke with a family and mortgage ... it aint a level playing feild! no wonder they can/will/do do it! it aint helping our skilled tradesmen.

 

the agencies look after all the paperwork/legal side of things, all the workers have to do is work. our lads have all the legal,logistical problems to finance before they start earning the money they need which is much more. again its the 'auf weidersein pet' in reverse... this system IS harming british tradesmen.

 

Is it not likely that it will be the workers on already low wages whose jobs are most at risk from immigrant workers. Not high skilled high paid people. A lot of the work they end up doing is the jobs our home unemployed don't want to do,either because they want too much for the job or they think the job is beneath them.Amazing how some unemployed can turn their nose up at earning an honest living instead of living off benefits. We can't all start working at £30,000 per year, if you haven't got the skills you have to start somewhere. The immigrants, see no problem in working at the bottom end with a view to improving their standard of living.

 

You could argue they got off their backsides and relocated thousands of miles to earn a living, whereas our lot wouldn't travel to end of the job queue, and they would rather sit in the pub and moan that its all the fault of immigrants that they can't get a job.

 

Where I live there is not much evidence immigrant tradesmen,but there are thousands working on the farms, from all over Europe.

 

I suppose problems could be worse where there are higher concentrations of immigrant workers in the large cities.

well i agree that they should turn up and do the job if they said they would... but what do you expect to pay? i regularly turn down work that 'doesnt pay', im not a fookin charity! i need to make a certain amount of money for my business to survive, thats how it works for tradesmen, we arnt a social service, we have overheads, we need to make a living.

 

Would you ever say to someone that you'd do the job and then not turn up though...? That's the question... It's totally disrespectful IMO, simple as.... Okay, maybe I am having a bit of a go at tradesmen of this day and age, but I know the way my Uncle and his workmates operated back in the day, and they were honest, hard working guys who never said they'd do an job and not turn up, even if it was only to fix an old dear's taps ffs.... And they would NEVER have scammed people by doing a lot of totally unnecessary work either and charge an arm and a leg.... A relatively recent phenomenon this... And you cannot deny that the Wembley stadium thing is anything other than a national disgrace... Mind you, it's got good company - the Millennium Dome, the Scottish Parliament building.... I've got a very bad feeling about the Olympic stadium, the costs of which are escalating all the time - from two, to four, to six billion..... Where will it end...?

 

The agencies and the gangs are scam artists, crooks and just generally scum, DONT ever blame the grafters for what the agencies do... there's a very good reason why these guys are put up by the agencies in hotels or in portacabins, it keeps them away from all the other indigenous tradesmen who would probably tell them exactly in what ways these agencies who are hiring them are totally fukking them over and ripping them off.... <_< Oh, but it's so good for Gordon Brown though innit...? All this nice, cheap migrant labour.... His "economic miracle" relies on it.... If these guys were being paid a comparative wage, the whole sorry house of cards would come crashing down about his ears...... Why do you think the "Equal Pay Act" hasn't been amended or enforced yet....?

 

You know, essentially, we're both fighting the same fight, just our approaches are different - you're looking at it at how it affects your particular area and how workers in your sector are being exploited, I'm looking at a much broader picture of Capitalism and exploitation of workers in general.... We both basically agree that exploitation is taking place, we both have an idea of who the villains are... These agency and management guys are just in hog heaven over this untapped cheap source of labour, they're loving it, and they're exploiting it to the max... Okay, so maybe these guys are presenting themselves, but that doesn't excuse what the agencies and the construction bosses are doing.. They shouldn't be getting away with it, simple as, and if we actually had a proper Labour Govt which still had its historical ties to the Unions, they most certainly wouldn't be getting away with it....