I was just in the Indie/Alternative forum reading the Rooster thread and found myself back in 'Pop' ;) :D

- but this is something that I've been thinking about on and off for a while - particularly since reading articles about the apparent decline in 'Pop' and James Blunt winning best Pop Act at The Brits - it's all got me wondering how we define genres...

 

I suppose I'm more inclined to see Pop as being Girl Bands, Boy Bands or Solo Artists that 'perform' as opposed to writing their own music; playing instruments; having a band. But, I also see some types of music-sounds as 'Pop' irrespective of what I've just said too ... so, I'm a tad confused I guess :wacko:

 

So tell me folks - Is there a clear definition of Pop? and what does Pop mean for the rest of you? :D

I've always seen 'Pop' as being a shortened form of Popular Music or in more general terms popular culture. When I was a nipper growing up in the 80s Pop was stuff like The Smiths, Depeche Mode, Adam and the Ants, Blondie, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Altered Images, The Cure, Gary Numan, New Order, Echo and the Bunnymen, cos I saw them all on TOTP. The equivalents of these bands now - the likes of Placebo, Garbage, My Chemical Romance, HIM, Franz Ferdinand, Interpol, etc are all considered "Alternative", "Indie" or "Hard Rock"; even Depeche Mode, The Cure and Gary Numan themselves are not considered to be 'Pop' anymore, they're put into the "Alternative" or even "Metal" category in the case of Gary Numan....

 

Pop these days seems to mean "Manufactured Pop", which I dont consider to be even music, let alone Pop music, a lot of it just seems to be sh!te created to sell mobile phone ringtones, as far as I'm concerned Manufactured Pop is to the world of music what McDonalds is to the world of cuisine.

I've always seen 'Pop' as being a shortened form of Popular Music or in more general terms popular culture.

 

I would agree with that definition. Tastes change all the time, hence we now have pop music which is largely manufactured. However, people seem to be buying it in droves so I guess the definition still stands.

 

Although I prefer the term pap music instead :P

 

 

Although I prefer the term pap music instead :P

 

Or even 'sh!te'..... :lol: :lol:

I was just in the Indie/Alternative forum reading the Rooster thread and found myself back in 'Pop' ;) :D

- but this is something that I've been thinking about on and off for a while - particularly since reading articles about the apparent decline in 'Pop' and James Blunt winning best Pop Act at The Brits - it's all got me wondering how we define genres...

 

I suppose I'm more inclined to see Pop as being Girl Bands, Boy Bands or Solo Artists that 'perform' as opposed to writing their own music; playing instruments; having a band. But, I also see some types of music-sounds as 'Pop' irrespective of what I've just said too ... so, I'm a tad confused I guess :wacko:

 

So tell me folks - Is there a clear definition of Pop? and what does Pop mean for the rest of you? :D

 

well according to the wikis pop can be sub-divided many ways. from the james clunt/daniel powter end (also known as adult contemporaty) to the boyband bubblegum and tweenypop areas of the market (or as my workmate says the ickleboppers :lol: )

from the james clunt/daniel powter end (also known as adult contemporaty)

 

"Adult Contemporary"???? That has gotta be one of the most hideous sounding classifications I've ever heard - right up there with AOR (Adult-Oriented Rock).... :lol: :lol:

 

And if James Blunt is supposedly "Adult Contemporary", then how come most of his fans seem to be teenage girlies......?

"Adult Contemporary"???? That has gotta be one of the most hideous sounding classifications I've ever heard - right up there with AOR (Adult-Oriented Rock).... :lol: :lol:

 

And if James Blunt is supposedly "Adult Contemporary", then how come most of his fans seem to be teenage girlies......?

 

well it's an Americanism, maybe over there all teenage girls are into the Pussycat Dolls and older blokes into Blunt, where over here it the other way round :lol:

well it's an Americanism, maybe over there all teenage girls are into the Pussycat Dolls and older blokes into Blunt, where over here it the other way round :lol:

 

Cant see it myself, American males tend to be pretty macho and I cant really see them being into a sissy-boy like Blunty, they'd consider him 'too gay'..... :lol: :lol:

 

I cannot understand the term "manufactured pop"! Surely all music is manufactured - it doesn't arrive out of the ether as if by magic. Someone has to make it (ie manufacture it).

 

If by manufactured you mean that someone else has made the decision to form a group other than the artist themselves, then I understand it but you cannot say that solo artists are manufactured in that sense. A solo singer is a solo singer and probably has been singing since childhood.

 

A manufactured group is like S Club 7 or The Monkees, made especially for TV. Most groups have auditions, whether in a studio or in someone's front room. Makes no difference.

If they create their own music - then I don't regard it as manufactured.

 

 

Exactly! Therefore the people who call Will Young manufactured are completely wrong as he writes a lot of his songs.

 

However, what about the old singers who didn't write anything - Elvis, Sinatra, Tom Jones, Tony Bennett etc? They weren't called manufactured.

 

It sure does puzzle me.

Edited April 20, 200619 yr by Dot

 

 

So tell me folks - Is there a clear definition of Pop? and what does Pop mean for the rest of you? :D

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Camel-3.jpg

 

MMM? Nice and Bubbly

I don't think i can define pop in so many words. There are so many different ranges, which i all consider to be pop :unsure:

Exactly! Therefore the people who call Will Young manufactured are completely wrong as he writes a lot of his songs.

 

However, what about the old singers who didn't write anything - Elvis, Sinatra, Tom Jones, Tony Bennett etc? They weren't called manufactured.

 

It sure does puzzle me.

 

Not at all, he was originally the product of some sh!tty "talent" show to sell records for Simon Cowell, he may write his own songs now, but that doesn't alter that fact that he was originally a manufactured act. And whether he writes his own material or not, it doesnt alter my opinion of him or his music, I dont like it, it's junk food music, it serves a purpose sure, and it may fill a hole (in much the same way as a McDonald's hamburger will sate your hunger...); but to extend the metaphor further, wouldn't you prefer a good, juicy, well-prepared T-Bone steak..?

 

And I've never rated the likes of Elvis or Tom Jones either, appallingly overrated c**p, I definitely consider them as much manufactured acts as Girls Aloud or Gareth Gates. As for Sinatra and Bennet, they cater for a specific target audience, Sinatra in particular pre-dates the whole idea of Popular Culture which really started off in the late 50s and gathered momentum in the 60s with the likes of The Beatles..

I cannot understand the term "manufactured pop"! Surely all music is manufactured - it doesn't arrive out of the ether as if by magic. Someone has to make it (ie manufacture it).

 

If by manufactured you mean that someone else has made the decision to form a group other than the artist themselves, then I understand it but you cannot say that solo artists are manufactured in that sense. A solo singer is a solo singer and probably has been singing since childhood.

 

A manufactured group is like S Club 7 or The Monkees, made especially for TV. Most groups have auditions, whether in a studio or in someone's front room. Makes no difference.

 

i remeber that programme that had malcolm mclaren going on and on and how he manufactured the sex pistols.

i remeber that programme that had malcolm mclaren going on and on and how he manufactured the sex pistols.

 

He was blatantly talking bollocks though - the whole "Great Rock n Roll Swindle" "documentary" (which is presumably what you're talking about) that he comissioned was basically to massage his own incredibly inflated sense of self-importance; Julien Temple, the director of the documentary, himself later denounced it and made amends by doing a documentary telling the real story of The Sex Pistols - "The Filth and the Fury". McClaren tried to manipulate Johnny, Steve Jones and Paul Cook (Sid was always too wasted to care if he was being manipulated or not...) and they were having none of it and dissolved the band. The Sex Pistols existed before McClaren came into the picture (with Glenn Matlock on bass) and all the songs were written by the Pistols, he manufactured precisely bugger all except his own inflated ego....

 

Little Ginger .... <_< <_<

wouldn't you prefer a good, juicy, well-prepared T-Bone steak..?

 

 

Definitely NOT!

 

Saying that Will was manufactured in Pop Idol is rubbish actually. All they did was sing classic songs and the public voted for who they like best (including I suspect you!).

 

After he won he was obliged by the contract to sing various covers but as soon as he could he was out of there and when his album came out (8 months later) there were several self-penned songs on it. Not like the current X-Factor winner with no songs written by him.

 

However, I know you will never, ever agree with me as I will never, ever agree with you, so lets call it quits.

Definitely NOT!

 

Saying that Will was manufactured in Pop Idol is rubbish actually. All they did was sing classic songs and the public voted for who they like best (including I suspect you!).

 

 

Well, when Morgan Spurlock went on a diet of Fast Food for a month it almost ended up giving him a heart attack, so I suspect a diet of Will Young and his ilk will eventually turn your brain to mush.... :lol: :lol: (just kidding...)

 

And of course he was manufactured in Pop Idol, FFS, do you honestly believe for a minute that someone so unutterably average and dull would actually have made it by honest hard work, genuine creativity and constant touring in a Transit Van the way The Smiths and The Arctic Monkeys did it? Without Pop Idol, the best he would've done would've been Butlins entertaining Grannies and bored married couples....

 

And I would never waste my time voting in rubbish TV "Talent" shows, not unless there was some genuine great new creative discovery on a par with Morrissey, Nick Cave, Siouxsie Sioux or Robert Smith, but that wouldn't happen, those with the real talent have got way too much integrity to sink so low as to be part of the X-Factor/Pop Idol cattle market.....

 

The trouble is that you are living in the past. Everyone you mentioned (apart from the Arctic Monkeys) are from past decades even if they are still going up to a point.

 

Anyway, do you know what Will and his contemporaries did before Pop Idol? Of course you don't because you don't like them and you therefore assume that they just appeared on the music scene.

 

Will was, of course, at University reading Politics, Gareth was at school taking his A levels, Darius too was at University. And for this year Shayne was in a local band - presumably travelling in a battered old transit van. :lol:

 

You also don't realise that nowadays it is very difficult for a band or singer to just turn up at a pub or club and do a gig. There are licences and so forth which have to be obtained before a venue can put on live music.

 

As I said before I will never agree with you, as you will never agree with me so lets drop the subject shall we?

The trouble is that you are living in the past. Everyone you mentioned (apart from the Arctic Monkeys) are from past decades even if they are still going up to a point.

 

Anyway, do you know what Will and his contemporaries did before Pop Idol? Of course you don't because you don't like them and you therefore assume that they just appeared on the music scene.

 

Will was, of course, at University reading Politics, Gareth was at school taking his A levels, Darius too was at University. And for this year Shayne was in a local band - presumably travelling in a battered old transit van. :lol:

 

You also don't realise that nowadays it is very difficult for a band or singer to just turn up at a pub or club and do a gig. There are licences and so forth which have to be obtained before a venue can put on live music.

 

As I said before I will never agree with you, as you will never agree with me so lets drop the subject shall we?

 

I see plenty of young, fresh talented acts around where I live (in Camden) so dont insult my intelligence by telling me I'm "living in the past"; there are about a half dozen or so dedicated live venues within about a two hundred yard fukkin' radius as well as plenty of pubs who cater for the occasional live band as well.... The trouble is, much of the young fresh talent that's out there doesnt get the breaks they deserve because the record industry is all about pre-packaged, manufactured, marketed Louis Walsh/Simon Cowell/Pete Waterman-type sh!te and the talent has to make do with being on underground or small Indie labels who don't have a hell of a lot of resources to promote their bands properly.

 

I dont give a toss what qualifications a singer or artist has, it's totally irrelevant, the fundamental factor is "is the music any good?" In the case of Will, Darius and Gareth, it is most emphatically NOT!! (and yes, I have actually listened..), since when did having a degree automatically equate to good songs and good art..?

 

As for Shayne, in a band was he? What happened to the rest of them? Did he stick by them? Or did he just forget about his bandmates when fame came a-knocking....? Never could stand a sell out....