Yeah, keep on making Pete Doherty believe he's got any talent...

 

And NO WAY Live Forever is bigger anthem than Teen Spirit!

Rubbish.

 

The Sex Pistols & The Clash were aesthically indie in origin. The whole Punk movement was Indie music not Heavy Rock/Metal music because of its Do It Yourself approach to musicality, image, performance & promotion. They were actually a backlash to virtuoso dinosaur Heavy Rock/Metal acts from the mid-1970s (Yes, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Queen, Genesis, Emerson Lake & Palmer, etc).

 

It is only thanks to the Post-Grunge likes of all those dreadful 1990s US "Punk" bands (Green Day, Offspring, etc) that the likes of Kerrang music now regards the original Punk movement as Rock/Metal, which is rather ironic since the Rock/Metal scene at the time despised Punk Rock music. Which is probably why when I grew up Tommy Vance never played any Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned, The Buzzcocks, etc. While John Peel did.

 

That is why the likes of NME, Melody Maker, Sounds weekly newspapers lauded the Punk music scene back in 1976-1979 because it was a backlash on what had previously existed.

 

As for New Order - New Order were formed out of the ashes of Joy Division, after the suicide of lead singer/lyricist Ian Curtis. They were most definitely Indie-Dance music but taking their "Dance" influence from the burgeoning New York Hip-Hop scene, not from the dated Disco scene.

 

Dance music at the time was all about the likes of Shannon - Let The Music Play, In Deep - Last Night A DJ Saved My Life, Freeez - I.O.U., Madonna - Holiday, Jocelyn Brown - Somebody Else's Guy, Hazell Dean - Searchin', etc.

 

So what you're saying is that "God Save the Queen" and "Pretty Vacant" are indie songs? Maybe they had the same DIY approach but the contrast between them and Indie now is pretty clear.

 

Possibly the reason why there was newer songs in it is that NME stands for NEW Musical Express. So of course there will be a bias for new songs, so what?

 

I know that Joy Division were Indie, like some of their stuff, Transmission a lot better than "Love will tear us apart" in my opinion, but the difference between New Order and Joy Division is pretty noticeable, there was more emphasis on dance, and New Order were influenced by the New York City dance scene (as you said). I feel they were more Dance than anything of the rock spectrum, but thats my opinion and I do expect "ooo your wrong" responses.

 

Been an Oasis fan I'm always going to be biased in some way, even sub-consciously. And not being as old as you, I didn't see the progression into what Indie is today. I agree some of those songs on the original list shouldn't be there and some should be added or moved around.

 

On another point

 

absolutely correct... well said :) these kids need educating,...lol

Q.6 on terms of service....

 

Just because i'm a new member and I got sorta Owned by a more experienced poster doesn't mean you all have to jump on the bandwagon!!

New Order always were indie full stop. They were on Factory for christs sake! Back when being indie meant actually being on an independent label not the vague synonym of alternative that it has now become.

 

Here is the list of their entries in the indie charts during the 80s (courtesy of http://www.cherryred.co.uk/books/indiehits/index.htm

 

CEREMONY (Factory FAC 33) 1 46 14/3/81

PROCESSION/EVERYTHING'S GONE GREEN (Factory FAC 53) 1 29 10/10/81

EVERYTHING'S GONE GREEN (Factory Benelux FACBN 08) 3 28 16/1/82

TEMPTATION (Factory FAC 63) 1 24 22/5/82

BLUE MONDAY (Factory FAC 7312) (12" only) 1 186 19/3/83

CONFUSION (Factory FAC 93) 1 16 3/9/83

THIEVES LIKE US (Factory FAC 103T) (12" only) 1 25 28/4/84

MURDER/THIEVES LIKE US (instrumental) (Factory Benelux FBN 22) 2 24 26/5/84

THE PERFECT KISS (Factory FAC 123) 1 25 25/5/85

SUB-CULTURE (Factory FAC 133) 1 26 9/11/85

THE PERFECT KISS (remix) (Factory 1237) 22 16 16/11/85

SHELLSHOCK (Factory FAC 143) 1 13 29/3/86

STATE OF THE NATION (Factory FAC 153) 1 10 27/9/86

THE PEEL SESSION (Strange Fruit SFPS 1) (12" only) 2 15 27/9/86

BIZARRE LOVE TRIANGLE (Factory FAC 163) (12" only) 1 15 15/11/86

TRUE FAITH (Factory FAC 183) 1 18 25/7/87

THE PEEL SESSION, VOLUME II (Strange Fruit SFPS 039) (12" only) 5 13 5/12/87

TOUCHED BY THE HAND OF GOD (Factory FAC 193) 1 14 12/12/87

BLUE MONDAY 1988 (remixed reissue) (Factory FAC 737) 1 15 7/5/88

FINE TIME (Factory FAC 2237) 1 14 10/12/88

ROUND AND ROUND (Factory FAC 2637) 2 10 11/3/89

RUN 2 (Factory FAC 273) (12" only) 1 4 16/9/89

 

Blue Monday actually had the most weeks on top of the Indie chart during the 80s, being number 1 for 13 weeks.

Edited May 7, 200718 yr by grebo69

So what you're saying is that "God Save the Queen" and "Pretty Vacant" are indie songs? Maybe they had the same DIY approach but the contrast between them and Indie now is pretty clear.

 

Possibly the reason why there was newer songs in it is that NME stands for NEW Musical Express. So of course there will be a bias for new songs, so what?

 

I know that Joy Division were Indie, like some of their stuff, Transmission a lot better than "Love will tear us apart" in my opinion, but the difference between New Order and Joy Division is pretty noticeable, there was more emphasis on dance, and New Order were influenced by the New York City dance scene (as you said). I feel they were more Dance than anything of the rock spectrum, but thats my opinion and I do expect "ooo your wrong" responses.

 

Been an Oasis fan I'm always going to be biased in some way, even sub-consciously. And not being as old as you, I didn't see the progression into what Indie is today. I agree some of those songs on the original list shouldn't be there and some should be added or moved around.

 

On another point

Q.6 on terms of service....

 

Just because i'm a new member and I got sorta Owned by a more experienced poster doesn't mean you all have to jump on the bandwagon!!

 

Whether New Order embraced the NY or Detroit Dance scene for one or two albums or not is utterly irrelevant, it's called "experimentation"... "Indie" = "Independent", this whole issue has become fudged and confused by the distortions and lies of the music industry and rags like NME, and it's the reason why we have sh!tty bands like Kaiser Chiefs, Razorsh!te and Keane suddenly are held up as being the representatives of "indie" (with a small "i") in the 00s.... Not all of New Order's stuff sounded anything like "Blue Monday", I would suggest you actually listen to their earlier material... The whole idea of Indie Dance and Indie bands experimenting with Dance music structures (like, oooh, say Happy Mondays' "Step On", PWEI's "Touched By The Hands of Cicciolina" or Stone Roses' "Fools Gold" just plucking examples out of thin air, I suppose by your incredibly narrow definition of Indie, the Mondays, Poppies and the Roses weren't an Indie acts either) was started by New Order, the "Madchester" Scene was a true "Indie" phenomenon....

 

And of course Sex Pistols and other Punk bands have to get credit for starting off the whole thing, Christ, they inspired the whole thing, Factory Records, Mute and Rough Trade were ALL products of the Punk/Post Punk scene...

 

So what you're saying is that "God Save the Queen" and "Pretty Vacant" are indie songs? Maybe they had the same DIY approach but the contrast between them and Indie now is pretty clear.

 

different pants? is that it??? :lol: not much difference between them and the libs when you think about it, probs them are more alike and fit together than lydon and good charlotte

 

Possibly the reason why there was newer songs in it is that NME stands for NEW Musical Express. So of course there will be a bias for new songs, so what?

 

I think that only applies years and years ago (like March 1952 for egs :lol: ), as the brand is NME not New Musical Express and i think it been that way for years and years and years!!!!

 

http://www.nme.com/images/thums/84_1956_elvispresley_L.jpg

http://www.iwasateenagechartfreak.com/phy/clim/30396/music-general-NME-feb-69.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Nme4.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/26/NME2.jpg

 

I know that Joy Division were Indie, like some of their stuff, Transmission a lot better than "Love will tear us apart" in my opinion, but the difference between New Order and Joy Division is pretty noticeable, there was more emphasis on dance, and New Order were influenced by the New York City dance scene (as you said). I feel they were more Dance than anything of the rock spectrum, but thats my opinion and I do expect "ooo your wrong" responses.

 

however the dance T.I.P. mentioned then in the 1980s might not be seen as dance now and

the same for loads of acts (ffs Beverley Knight cant even get a mention in the R&B, Soul forum area and was shifted to pop but she's probs got more soul than loads of the yank acts). aLSO a number of dance acts fit into the alternative sphere of influence (Moby, Daft Punk, Air etc etc) and so are covered by the NME and feature in the line up of those types of fests.

 

Been an Oasis fan I'm always going to be biased in some way, even sub-consciously. And not being as old as you, I didn't see the progression into what Indie is today. I agree some of those songs on the original list shouldn't be there and some should be added or moved around.

 

Well i dont think i'd list Oasis in an indie section these days they would go straight to stadium dadrock with Paul Weller, U2, Coldplay, Travis, Keane and Genesis (wait a min forget Genesis from that list...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

they were supposed to be interesting once when they started unlike the rest :lol: :lol: )

 

Whether New Order embraced the NY or Detroit Dance scene for one or two albums or not is utterly irrelevant, it's called "experimentation"... "Indie" = "Independent", this whole issue has become fudged and confused by the distortions and lies of the music industry and rags like NME, and it's the reason why we have sh!tty bands like Kaiser Chiefs, Razorsh!te and Keane suddenly are held up as being the representatives of "indie" (with a small "i") in the 00s.... Not all of New Order's stuff sounded anything like "Blue Monday", I would suggest you actually listen to their earlier material... The whole idea of Indie Dance and Indie bands experimenting with Dance music structures (like, oooh, say Happy Mondays' "Step On", PWEI's "Touched By The Hands of Cicciolina" or Stone Roses' "Fools Gold" just plucking examples out of thin air, I suppose by your incredibly narrow definition of Indie, the Mondays, Poppies and the Roses weren't an Indie acts either) was started by New Order, the "Madchester" Scene was a true "Indie" phenomenon....

 

also on the point of indie/dance what about this lot??? :lol:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Klaxons.jpg