McGregor was appointed originally by Labour to sort out British Leyland and British Steel, yes Maggie appointed him head of the coal board but if I remember correctly it was a Labour government that appointed him to British Steel where he cut thousands of jobs in the industry in a quest to make British Steel profitable, did he not shed about 50% of the workforce or something on that sorta scale ? he did a similar thing with British Leyland too.

 

A Labour government appointing a Canadian hatchet man to cut thousands of jobs in the industry should be a far bigger "class betrayal" than a right wing government bringing him in to do the same with the coal industry

 

And talking of the Unions didn't the TUC even refuse to side with Scargill ? if I am wrong please correct me I do not have tme to research the matter and am going from memory so might be wrong but I don't recall much enthusiasm among other unions for backing Scargill

lol... i agree tbh, although things went pretty much downhill in recent years people are all to easy to forget the better things he oversaw... massive spending in education, abolishion of hunting with hounds, minimum wage, stable economy, lowest mortgage rates for 40 years, peace in northern ireland... our society is better off then it was ten years ago..

 

i expect brown to be a pretty good pm, hes a political heavyweight who i think will steer his own ship.

 

The low mortgage rates are kinda cancelled out by the fact that house prices are going totally nuts though Rob, the percentage rates might be low, but when you're paying X% on a house that costs about three hundred grand where a few years ago it might have only been worth two hundred, it's still pretty damned prohibitive for most.... First-Time buyers can't even get on the housing market in most cases, particularly in London and the South where it is a particular problem... 'Minimum Wage' is a joke really, firstly because it is at least a pound an hour too low and falls far short of the EU Decency Threshold, and secondly because too many employers are finding ways to get round it... It is not being enforced nearly strongly enough.... As for a "stable economy", erm, well, Brown's "Economic Miracle" has been torn apart by experts at the LSE and other economics professionals...

 

There is no doubt in my mind that B-Liar has been total poison for this country and for the true Labour Party as well actually, party membership has dropped rather dramatically since B-Liar's reign - not just because of the Iraq war and the arse-licking of Bush (but let's face it, pretty much all the sh!t we're in just now can be traced directly back to this utter folie a deux....), but factor in the massive waste and total mis-management in the NHS (a lot of which was due to the introduction of an IT system at massive expense that JUST DOES NOT WORK....), the ever-spiralling costs of the 2012 Olympics (first it was £2 bn, later on £6 bn, now it's looking to be closer to £9.5 bn. Can anyone say "Montreal '76...?" The people of that city are STILL paying for the Olympics 30 years on.... <_< <_< ); the erosion of our civil liberties and right to protest which has seen a pensioner arrested and held under Anti Terrorism legislation at a Labour Party conference just for saying "rubbish" at Jack Straw and a small, frail young woman bundled into the back of a police van by about 12 built-like-brick-$h!thouse coppers merely for reading out the names of dead soldiers at the Cenotaph; the proposed introduction of biometric ID cards which is another assault on our civil liberties and the fact that now you cannot protest on the public area known as "Parliament Square" - well, excuse me, we're paying our bloody TAXES for this place, it BELONGS to the people of this country; the "cash for honours" scandal, which I dont believe for a second that B-Liar wasn't involved in up to his neck; the murder...oops, sorry....suicide of Dr David Kelly... So many other things I could mention, but I would literally be here all day listing B-Liar's crimes against the people of Britain and frankly I do kinda have better things to do.... :lol:

 

On the one hand, glad to see the back of B-Liar, but on the other, I know that the sh!tty Status Quo will be maintained by Brown and Cameron...... NOTHING is gonna change - whether it's Nu Labor or Tories in power....

 

Some commentators have been asking about "What New role will Tony Blair take up....?". Personally, I hope it's the role of War Crimes Defendant in an Iraqi court of Law, with Bush being a Co-accused....

on a lighter note.... Gordon Brown... he makes me sick just looking at him.... his wheezy breathing inbetween words, his slobbery tongue and rubbery lips when he speaks - ugh.

I was on thoise marches because every single male member of my family bar my father worked in the mining industry in an area that had NO OTHER EMPLOYMENT. Nothing. Because all around me were families totally broken by this strike, but who refused to back down because what they were doing was right - was for the future of them and their families. You, from your priveliged comfort of your English home, can balk at this - can look down your fascist nose at these people - but you know what? What these people were doing was wholly right - and remember, love or loathe Scargill - at least he told the truth about Thatcher's intentions regarding the pits - didn't he?

 

I was born and brought up in a place called Maerdy - the last pit in the Rhondda. Closing this mine wouldn't only be closing a business - it was closing the whole AREA.

 

I remember soup kitchens - yes, really - for the families who had nothing, who were homeless, who were starving. Yes, that's true - in 1984, too.

 

I was on those marches, as many as I possibly could, because what the minmers were fighting for was RIGHT.

 

Because what Thatcher and her henchmenwere saying wass LIES, Vic.

 

The mining industry was NOT losing money - don't believe the hype, and whilst the miners who did plought their meagre redundancy money into buying back their pits was a great idea (it happened in Merthyr and the pit is massively profitable), unfortunately, mmost of the men losing their livelihoods were married with families and mortgages. They had gone without for over a year, many lost their homes, their families - everything, Vic. And asll because Thatcher wanted to give them a bloody nose and teach those scummy working classes a lesson. Not because of financial reasons at all - and you know it.

 

And as for any pickets being hijacked by lefties - balderdash. The pickets were hijacked by police who DELIBERATELY ensured working and non-working miners would meet and clash. I remember Yorkshire where one of the biggest news stories centred with miners fighting and apparent all-out war breaking out. You know why that REALLY happened? The police DELIBERATELY closed the only other road working miners could use to get to work. The only other road was where the pickets were. Of course the police KNEW there'd be trouble - they even invited the news crews to the scene to witness it - up until the shift was due to start and the working miners would be starting work - no news crews were anywhere in sight. Strange how they suddenly arrived from nowhere, don't you think? I witnessed this myself - and also witnessed the police showing off their overtime wage slips to the striking miners. Not once - this happened on virtually EVERY march I went on - it was a ploy, with directions from the top, to antagonise as much as humanly possible.

 

These 'Socialist Workers' shipped in from miles away to cause rucks? Rubbish - the coaches taking people to these marches contained miners from all over the country - and their supporters.

 

Vic - I was there, mate, I saw what happened with my own eyes - I think you read The Sun and watched the BBC news a bit more than attending actual marches.

 

THE FULL TRUTH..... Spot on Russ...

 

I was on thoise marches because every single male member of my family bar my father worked in the mining industry in an area that had NO OTHER EMPLOYMENT. Nothing. Because all around me were families totally broken by this strike, but who refused to back down because what they were doing was right - was for the future of them and their families. You, from your priveliged comfort of your English home, can balk at this - can look down your fascist nose at these people - but you know what? What these people were doing was wholly right - and remember, love or loathe Scargill - at least he told the truth about Thatcher's intentions regarding the pits - didn't he?

 

I was born and brought up in a place called Maerdy - the last pit in the Rhondda. Closing this mine wouldn't only be closing a business - it was closing the whole AREA.

 

I remember soup kitchens - yes, really - for the families who had nothing, who were homeless, who were starving. Yes, that's true - in 1984, too.

 

I was on those marches, as many as I possibly could, because what the minmers were fighting for was RIGHT.

 

Because what Thatcher and her henchmenwere saying wass LIES, Vic.

 

The mining industry was NOT losing money - don't believe the hype, and whilst the miners who did plought their meagre redundancy money into buying back their pits was a great idea (it happened in Merthyr and the pit is massively profitable), unfortunately, mmost of the men losing their livelihoods were married with families and mortgages. They had gone without for over a year, many lost their homes, their families - everything, Vic. And asll because Thatcher wanted to give them a bloody nose and teach those scummy working classes a lesson. Not because of financial reasons at all - and you know it.

 

And as for any pickets being hijacked by lefties - balderdash. The pickets were hijacked by police who DELIBERATELY ensured working and non-working miners would meet and clash. I remember Yorkshire where one of the biggest news stories centred with miners fighting and apparent all-out war breaking out. You know why that REALLY happened? The police DELIBERATELY closed the only other road working miners could use to get to work. The only other road was where the pickets were. Of course the police KNEW there'd be trouble - they even invited the news crews to the scene to witness it - up until the shift was due to start and the working miners would be starting work - no news crews were anywhere in sight. Strange how they suddenly arrived from nowhere, don't you think? I witnessed this myself - and also witnessed the police showing off their overtime wage slips to the striking miners. Not once - this happened on virtually EVERY march I went on - it was a ploy, with directions from the top, to antagonise as much as humanly possible.

 

These 'Socialist Workers' shipped in from miles away to cause rucks? Rubbish - the coaches taking people to these marches contained miners from all over the country - and their supporters.

 

Vic - I was there, mate, I saw what happened with my own eyes - I think you read The Sun and watched the BBC news a bit more than attending actual marches.

 

I will reply in full tonight as have lots to do this afternoon but I can assure you I despise The Sun and have not bought a single copy since that article after Hillsborough that accused Liverpool fans of thieving from and urinating upon the dead, even as a Spurs fan that was the most vile article in the history of British journalism, I read it if someone leaves it on the train or a member of my family buys it but I myself don't buy it. Even the Daily Mirror which is a left wing paper was against the miners strike mate, I remember the front page editorials telling the miners to go back to work, only papers I buy are The Daily Telegraph and the Sunday Times.

 

Also I do not come from a privileged background I was born and spent my entire school years on a council estate, some of that time included 3 of us taking it in turns to use 2 beds which meant at least twice a week each of us would have to sleep on the floor so no offence mate but the idea that I was bought up with a silver spoon in my mouth is completely wrong :)

 

I will reply proper about the miners strike tonight thought but wanted to clarify those points I made in this post :)

Edited May 10, 200718 yr by Vic Vega

not had time to read all on this thread , so sorry if im repeting something

 

the coal industry was only a 'lame duck' industry because thatchers lot deliberately did not invest in new machinery, if they had done then the plentyful coal reserves could be mined at a profit. she deliberately ran down the industry in order to cause the miners strike and break the left.

not had time to read all on this thread , so sorry if im repeting something

 

the coal industry was only a 'lame duck' industry because thatchers lot deliberately did not invest in new machinery, if they had done then the plentyful coal reserves could be mined at a profit. she deliberately ran down the industry in order to cause the miners strike and break the left.

 

She was only doing what the previous LABOUR administration did to the steel industry (50% of jobs cut and many steel works closed) she was only doing what the previous administration did with British Leyland, massive job losses and closure of plants, let me guess Callaghan deliberately ran down the steel and car industries to break the left too ? ;)

 

 

not had time to read all on this thread , so sorry if im repeting something

 

the coal industry was only a 'lame duck' industry because thatchers lot deliberately did not invest in new machinery, if they had done then the plentyful coal reserves could be mined at a profit. she deliberately ran down the industry in order to cause the miners strike and break the left.

 

Spot on...

 

Craig can say what he likes about Scargill, the guy was proven right in the end in everything he said...

 

Spot on...

 

Craig can say what he likes about Scargill, the guy was proven right in the end in everything he said...

 

Scargill sold out his own members, stole donations from places like Russia and Libya meant for starving miners and kept the money for himself, that shows how much he cared about miners, I remember Roger Cook reporting on the evidence so I don't think Scargill cared about starving miners only himself and his agenda of trying to bring down Maggie

Scargill sold out his own members, stole donations from places like Russia and Libya meant for starving miners and kept the money for himself, that shows how much he cared about miners, I remember Roger Cook reporting on the evidence so I don't think Scargill cared about starving miners only himself and his agenda of trying to bring down Maggie

 

Frankly, I believe that one about as much as I believe George Galloway received a million barrels of oil from Saddam.... :lol: :lol:

 

Roger fukkin' Cook??? So not a Parliamentary Inquiry then...? Or even a Police investigation....? I'm pretty damn sure Maggie would've clawed onto this "evidence" that Cook supposedly had to totally destroy him... Was Scargill ever actually charged with embezzlement...? Was he sent to prison....? No, unlike several Tory MPs I could mention..... <_<

 

God mate, you really do fall for every piece of right-wing twaddle going don't you....?

Frankly, I believe that one about as much as I believe George Galloway received a million barrels of oil from Saddam.... :lol: :lol:

 

Roger fukkin' Cook??? So not a Parliamentary Inquiry then...? Or even a Police investigation....? I'm pretty damn sure Maggie would've clawed onto this "evidence" that Cook supposedly had to totally destroy him... Was Scargill ever actually charged with embezzlement...? Was he sent to prison....? No, unlike several Tory MPs I could mention..... <_<

 

God mate, you really do fall for every piece of right-wing twaddle going don't you....?

 

He could have sued Roger Cook and ITV for slander/libel if he really was innocent, I know I would have done in a heartbeat if I was falsely accused on national tv of being a thief, the fact he never did is surely suspicious ? even Galloway sued for libel

 

I don't at all mate, I am not even a traditional right winger, I believe fully in capitalism and the free market but I am not a traditional right winger when it comes to things like immigrants, homosexuals and so on, I have been very critical on here of the right wing press like the Daily Mail with their demonisation of blacks and muslims and so on so I don't for a moment believe everything I read in the right wing press

He could have sued Roger Cook and ITV for slander/libel if he really was innocent, I know I would have done in a heartbeat if I was falsely accused on national tv of being a thief, the fact he never did is surely suspicious ? even Galloway sued for libel

 

Yeah, cos he would've gotten a real fair hearing wouldn't he....? Considering all the negative press at the time.... So, if you dont sue for libel that automatically means you're guilty then yeah...? Bollocks... Maxwell and Archer did sue, and well, turned out they were both big, fat liars huh...? Galloway won his case because the mood of the times was totally different, everybody knew that Blair was a liar and that he was merely setting out to discredit an opponent... Mind you, he needn't have bothered, Galloway damaged his own credibility by that bloody Celeb Big Brother stunt....

She was only doing what the previous LABOUR administration did to the steel industry (50% of jobs cut and many steel works closed) she was only doing what the previous administration did with British Leyland, massive job losses and closure of plants, let me guess Callaghan deliberately ran down the steel and car industries to break the left too ? ;)

 

 

they WERE lame duck industrys though.... they DID have investment, car/steel workers were labour voters!!! totally unlike the coal industry where if the government had invested in new plant the rich seams of coal could have been extracted efficiently. budge did!!!!

Scargill sold out his own members, stole donations from places like Russia and Libya meant for starving miners and kept the money for himself, that shows how much he cared about miners, I remember Roger Cook reporting on the evidence so I don't think Scargill cared about starving miners only himself and his agenda of trying to bring down Maggie

 

 

if there was one iota of EVIDENCE then scargill would have been prosecuted, you read too many right wing fairy stories, believing what you want to.

if there was one iota of EVIDENCE then scargill would have been prosecuted, you read too many right wing fairy stories, believing what you want to.

 

The NUM moved all their funds and assets abroad to avoid having them siezed by the courts there would be no evidence to prosecute Scargill, and Roger Cook is an ex Labour party member not a rabid right winger

Edited May 11, 200718 yr by Vic Vega

The NUM moved all their funds and assets abroad to avoid having them siezed by the courts

 

Well, rather understandable considering that Maggie would've stopped at nothing to bring them down.... <_<

 

As for Roger Cook..... His sensationalist style of 'reporting' (which Chris Morris absolutely ripped the pish out of in his brilliant "Brass Eye" series) was discredited more than once, wasn't he one of the people who tried to propogate the urban myth of "Satanic Child Abuse"....

 

You won't be very pleased that Maggie has made the top 5 shortlist of the Greatest Living Briton poll in the Sun. :P

Its going to be a very interesting debate on here the day she dies lol although I hope it a long long way away

You won't be very pleased that Maggie has made the top 5 shortlist of the Greatest Living Briton poll in the Sun. :P

 

See that proves it is a myth that Maggie was hated by the working class, 99% of Sun readers are working class people like builders, white van men, taxi drivers and so on so for the readers of the paper that is the voice of the working class to vote her in the Top 5 people ever shows her popularity among the working class is more than has been claimed

Well, she also made #3 in the Worst ever Briton (both dead and alive), behind only Jordon and Blair (who was #1) :lol: ;)