May 15, 200718 yr the science is flawed though.. by removing the eastern bloc votes doesnt give a truer picture, as those results still are effected by it. it doesnt matter wether or not countries are voting for their neighbours out of colusion or similar musical tastes... the point is that these countries DO vote for eachother therefore the contest is totally inaccurate. the only way to stop regional differences effecting the result would be to do a 'world cup' type style of selecting the finalists... ie a given number of countries from similar areas only. like that if only (say) 3 countries from any given region were allowed there would be a fairer chance and a more reprisentitive contest.
May 15, 200718 yr I will not blame block voting either as my two votes went to Belarus and Bulgaria in the east... If Germany, France or Spain ever send a song worthy of my vote then of course I will vote for it but what I would NEVER do is vote for a specific country That is actually my point. People in the West vote more likely the songs they actually like while the immigrants vote their old home country even if they don't like it just to support the country. I think you're wrong mate, RFC's chart is very useful and telling... Don't blame the "immigrant " or Diasporic vote if the majority indigenous people are too fukkin' lazy to pick up a phone or are otherwise out on the town getting pissed up and not even watching the prog... That's a bit like not bothering to vote in an election and then whingeing about c**p the Govt is.... If you dont take part, then you've no right to moan about the results, simple as..... See above. So I don't mean Westerners don't vote but that they are more likely to choose songs they like than the immigrants who aren't voting for the song but for a country. For example, in the UK ten local voters might vote 3 different countries while ten Turkish immigrants all might like other tracks than the Turkish entry but still would be loyal for the home country and thus UK would give top points to a song that no voter actually liked but from where there are many immigrants. I mean why not also allow all countries to vote for themselves...this is same kinda thing.
May 15, 200718 yr it doesnt matter whether or not countries are voting for their neighbours out of...similar musical tastes... the point is that these countries DO vote for eachother therefore the contest is totally inaccurate. If they're voting out of musical tastes then it clearly IS accurate as I believe you are supposed to vote for your favourite song! :lol: I don't know how to stop diaspora voting though, the only solution I can think of would be to ban certain countries voting for Turkey and Armenia, and others (such as Lithuania and possibly Latvia in Ireland) but that would cause uproar probably :(
May 16, 200718 yr If they're voting out of musical tastes then it clearly IS accurate as I believe you are supposed to vote for your favourite song! :lol: its only accurate if the voters from all areas are equaly reprisented. maybe the uk ought to split for the contest into wales, england, scotland... hell even cornwall! lol... maybe then we would get more votes. but they split up 1 country (yugoslavia) into half a dozen, and entered each one! that aint gonna give an accurate result.
May 16, 200718 yr Author But Yugoslavia isn't a country any more... They're completely seperate countries and it'd be unfair to say their votes had to be joined.
May 16, 200718 yr But Yugoslavia isn't a country any more... They're completely seperate countries and it'd be unfair to say their votes had to be joined. Of course. I can't believe somebody even thought those votes can be joined. :blink:
May 16, 200718 yr I can't believe somebody even thought those votes can be joined. :blink: Yeah, if they joined they'd have nobody to vote for, seeing as you can't vote for yourself :kink: JOKING :P :lol:
May 16, 200718 yr Yeah, if they joined they'd have nobody to vote for, seeing as you can't vote for yourself :kink: JOKING :P :lol: Good JOKE. :lol:
May 19, 200718 yr I have seen the List of the Top 2007 ESC Scorers without 'Eastern' Votes, elsewhere. It proves nothing. It shows that, Western Europe/Scandinavia, tends to spread their Points around, & that they did give several to the 'East' in this Year's Contest. However, that does not mean - because it doesn't - that a great many of Eastern European Votes are not handed to other Eastern European Countries, & Balkan States, & Former USSR Republics. Showing that the West Voted for the East too, does not cancel out the fact that the East hands most of its Points to other Eastern States.... Basically, by Voting for any Eastern Countries - at all - the West is now simply reinforcing the Easts domination of the Results. (A way to put a stop to it - the West helping ithe East dominate - would be for the West to simply refuse to Vote for ANY Eastern European Entries in the future! Yes, it would ruin the Contest - but, it is ruined NOW, anyhow). It has become a farce - and pointless for the UK to bother Entering. It is one thing for us to do badly with c**p like Scooch, but the way the Voting System works now the UK would never have been able to Win - ever, on any of the 5 times that it has Won. Or to have come 2nd about 15 times. Nor would Ireland have won 7 times. Or ABBA have won in 1974 with 'Waterloo'. The fact is that Eastern Europe has so many Countries in the Contest, & they hand so many Points to each other, that the West merely makes their dominance even stronger, by handing any Points - at all - to the East. It is no longer about the Songs. Many people can now see this. We will see if the UK sees sense - and pulls out of the ESC - if & when we enter a decent Song, & it still comes nowhere - due to the East having so many Countries in the Contest. France is fed up of the ESC - the head of the French Delegation in Helsinki called it a 'Pan-Slav' Song Contest, & added that there was:, 'No place for France in it'. The German Press are calling for Germany to leave. Many in the UK want the UK to leave. The UK, France & Germany are 3 of the 4 biggest funders of the ESC - if all 3 of us leave, then the entire Contest collapses - as Spain, (the other biggest funder of it), cannot afford to keep the Contest afloat by itself. (And The Netherlands is fed up of the Contest too). 1) Few people think that Scooch deserved to Win - I didn't. It is c**p. So this idea that anyone in the UK, who condemns the Voting System, is showing 'sour grapes' is stupid - we did not deserve to Win - but, we do deserve to do well with a decent entry - I - and many - contend that we cannot do well with ANYTHING the way the Countries Vote, these days..... (As one UK Bookie put it, 'The UK could enter with Elton John, & still not win, now'). 2) I like the Serbian Winner, & hoped she would Win, when I saw her perform it. However, 14 of the Top 16 Countries were from Eastern Europe - a sure sign that there is little chance for the West to make much headway anymore. (Hopefully, if & when the UK enters a Song that the UK likes & respects - & that does badly in the ESC too - even the BBC will see no more point in Broadcasting the farce, & will refuse to have anything to do with it. And - yes - it can happen. The UK will have no interest in halping to pay for a Contest that we can never do well in - only Morons would fund such a joke!). 3) Removing Eastern European Points from the 2007 Results, to 'prove' that the West liked the Eastern Entries too, does NOT show that there is no Eastern Dominance. It merely shows that the West cuts its own throat by reinforcing Eastern Dominance. The 2 things are not the same! 4) I suggest that the UK, & USA start an ESWSC - English Speaking World Song Contest - with Yearly Entrants from, the UK, USA, Ireland, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand. We could each enter 3 songs each - 18 Songs in all - and then we would never have to put up with the laughable Eastern Dominance of the ESC ever again. 5) A great many Media people in the UK can see that the East has ruined the Contest - the 'Old Pals Act' Voting. I know Scientists who can see it too. It is quite funny that there are people on the Internet who dismiss ALL of the Critics as either 'Stupid', or 'Sour Grapes', or 'Wrong'. A lot of the people who refuse to accept that the Voting is laughable, are scared to death of the UK etc. leaving the ESC. Why? It is not that worthwhile! Only TWO Global Acts have come from it - ABBA & Celine Dion. It isn't as if it adds anything to Music History! The Entries have not even been that memorable - for Years. The 2007 Contest seems to have created a 'Mini Hysteria' in the UK for the Ukrainian Entry - a Transvestite, dressed in Silver, with a Star on his Head! Wow! How many Global Number 1 Singles & Albums is HE going to have? (LOL!). He's Sue Pollard meets Dame Edna Everage - frankly I cannot get excited over such a joke! Sorry, but we Critics can't all be mistaken - it is obvious that the ESC has to reform its Voting System - or it dies - the UK, France, & Germany will leave - and stop paying for the damn thing! Then the ESC collapses..... (Unless its most Fanatical Fans agree to pay for it! I'd rather pay for a Sewage Works!). Edited May 19, 200718 yr by zeus555
May 19, 200718 yr It proves nothing. It shows that, Western Europe/Scandinavia, tends to spread their Points around, & that they did give several to the 'East' in this Year's Contest. It proves that the people in this country cannot say that it wasn't about the songs - why would we, the 'epitome of European civilisation' (and before anyone moans, that's basically what's going on, we're thinking that our votes are more valid than theirs...<_<) vote for these songs? :rolleyes: Basically, by Voting for any Eastern Countries - at all - the West is now simply reinforcing the Easts domination of the Results. (A way to put a stop to it - the West helping ithe East dominate - would be for the West to simply refuse to Vote for ANY Eastern European Entries in the future! Yes, it would ruin the Contest - but, it is ruined NOW, anyhow). I completely disagree, this year's contest has been one of the best in recent times, the best SONG won (if I'm judging on the actual song I cannot deny that Molitva is ten times the song Song #1 is ^_^) and the contest is far from ruined, we ARE being sour grapes, and all this moaning is down to inherent racism, if the western countries voted for each other we wouldn't call it 'political'! :rolleyes: It has become a farce - and pointless for the UK to bother Entering. Hardly - I refer you to 2002, the last time we sent an actually credible entry - what happened? We came third ;) It is one thing for us to do badly with c**p like Scooch, but the way the Voting System works now the UK would never have been able to Win - ever, on any of the 5 times that it has Won. Or to have come 2nd about 15 times. Nor would Ireland have won 7 times. Or ABBA have won in 1974 with 'Waterloo'. Again, I refer you to 1997 - the first year of televoting, OK, it was only a few countries but we received maximum points from all of them, we came 2nd the next year when televoting was more widespread. We CAN win the contest, we just need to actually get into gear and enter something CREDIBLE -_- It is no longer about the Songs. Many people can now see this. And would you say that Molitva was a completely unworthy winner? :rolleyes: It had NO gimmicks, it was just a simple song, the last time one of those won - 1996, Eimear Quinn - Ireland - The Voice, which most people are harking on as if it was a golden age, if anything we are returning to better times, people wouldn't be kicking up a bloody fuss if FRANCE had won this year with that song! :rolleyes: Post continued below
May 19, 200718 yr We will see if the UK sees sense - and pulls out of the ESC - if & when we enter a decent Song, & it still comes nowhere - due to the East having so many Countries in the Contest. The proof is in the pudding - we did well the last time we entered a decent song in 2002 - and we had the chance to send Cyndi, a decent song which would have done well given our position. The blame lies with the f*cking stupid British public this year <_< France is fed up of the ESC - the head of the French Delegation in Helsinki called it a 'Pan-Slav' Song Contest, & added that there was:, 'No place for France in it'. France are in a similar situation to us - they haven't done well since their last decent entry in 2002. Their pastiche this year was nothing short of cringeworthy, perhaps they should take a similar route to the one we should take? The German Press are calling for Germany to leave. Many in the UK want the UK to leave. The UK, France & Germany are 3 of the 4 biggest funders of the ESC - if all 3 of us leave, then the entire Contest collapses - as Spain, (the other biggest funder of it), cannot afford to keep the Contest afloat by itself. (And The Netherlands is fed up of the Contest too). Have the Germans forgotten their 8th place in 2004 so quickly? Clearly it's about the songs that they're sending here, they sent a screechy bint in 2005, came last, sent a nice enough song last year, deserved to do better but the draw hardly helped. We ARE being sour grapes about it - every year someone has to do badly, Portugal have had a dry run of 46 years and you don't see them turning into whingy gits over it! :rolleyes: 1) Few people think that Scooch deserved to Win - I didn't. It is c**p. So this idea that anyone in the UK, who condemns the Voting System, is showing 'sour grapes' is stupid - we did not deserve to Win - but, we do deserve to do well with a decent entry - I - and many - contend that we cannot do well with ANYTHING the way the Countries Vote, these days..... (As one UK Bookie put it, 'The UK could enter with Elton John, & still not win, now'). We can do well with decent songs, cf. 2002 -_- 2) I like the Serbian Winner, & hoped she would Win, when I saw her perform it. However, 14 of the Top 16 Countries were from Eastern Europe - a sure sign that there is little chance for the West to make much headway anymore. (Hopefully, if & when the UK enters a Song that the UK likes & respects - & that does badly in the ESC too - even the BBC will see no more point in Broadcasting the farce, & will refuse to have anything to do with it. And - yes - it can happen. The UK will have no interest in halping to pay for a Contest that we can never do well in - only Morons would fund such a joke!). We CAN do well in it! :rolleyes: We are just using bigotry in order to cover up for the fact we have sent absolute schlock for the past 5 years -_- And even good songs do badly in the east - Macedonia anyone? :rolleyes: 3) Removing Eastern European Points from the 2007 Results, to 'prove' that the West liked the Eastern Entries too, does NOT show that there is no Eastern Dominance. It merely shows that the West cuts its own throat by reinforcing Eastern Dominance. ...as well as showing that we, the West, who are the 'best judges' of how good songs are, appreciate that the East has entered good songs as well! :rolleyes: Oh wait, perhaps THAT'S why they vote for each other? :o -_- 4) I suggest that the UK, & USA start an ESWSC - English Speaking World Song Contest - with Yearly Entrants from, the UK, USA, Ireland, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand. We could each enter 3 songs each - 18 Songs in all - and then we would never have to put up with the laughable Eastern Dominance of the ESC ever again. So, in our desperation to do well, we enter a whole new contest for backslapping our fellow Anglophiles? How childish -_- I wonder why THEY would understand us? Language similarity? Hmmm, sounds a LOT like the Balkans...-_- 5) A great many Media people in the UK can see that the East has ruined the Contest - the 'Old Pals Act' Voting. I know Scientists who can see it too. It is quite funny that there are people on the Internet who dismiss ALL of the Critics as either 'Stupid', or 'Sour Grapes', or 'Wrong'. A lot of the people who refuse to accept that the Voting is laughable, are scared to death of the UK etc. leaving the ESC. Why? It is not that worthwhile! Only TWO Global Acts have come from it - ABBA & Celine Dion. It isn't as if it adds anything to Music History! The Entries have not even been that memorable - for Years. The 2007 Contest seems to have created a 'Mini Hysteria' in the UK for the Ukrainian Entry - a Transvestite, dressed in Silver, with a Star on his Head! Wow! How many Global Number 1 Singles & Albums is HE going to have? (LOL!). He's Sue Pollard meets Dame Edna Everage - frankly I cannot get excited over such a joke! WE ruin the contest with our constant moaning! :rolleyes: We are unable to accept that we will do badly if we enter bad songs, so why people are wondering if we won't do well with a good song I don't know seeing as the last time we sent one we did well! :rolleyes: The voting ISN'T laughable, it's cultural - put it this way, would we call it political/neighbourly voting if we gave Ireland 12 if they sent U2? DIDN'T THINK SO! -_- And your claim that 'scientists' can see it - BECAUSE THE EUROVISION SONG CONTEST IS REALLY RELEVANT TO SCIENCE RIGHT? :rolleyes::rolleyes: And just because the ESC has only produced TWO global acts does that mean we should scrap it? It's great fun, and it is an ELEMENTAL part of music history, being the most POPULAR music contest in the world! Sorry, but we Critics can't all be mistaken - it is obvious that the ESC has to reform its Voting System - or it dies - the UK, France, & Germany will leave - and stop paying for the damn thing! Then the ESC collapses..... (Unless its most Fanatical Fans agree to pay for it! I'd rather pay for a Sewage Works!). Oh really? Just because a lot of people think it it is true? So because 60 million voted for Bush that means that he is a great leader? Because Hitler was voted in with such a majority that makes HIM a great leader? I don't think so -_- Just because a lot of people think it doesn't make it true, that is a HUGE logical fallacy.
May 19, 200718 yr the UK sends $h!t acts to represent us....we should expect $h!t marks in the competition. i do think there may be SOME politics involved though.
May 19, 200718 yr the UK sends $h!t acts to represent us....we should expect $h!t marks in the competition. i do think there may be SOME politics involved though. Excellent points Tyron, I agree completely. ^_^ And yes, there are some politics involved; though not to do with the United Kingdom. Cyprus/Greece/Turkey is the only politics that truly lives in the Eurovision.
May 20, 200718 yr Hello, Tyron, the reason I mentioned Scientists, (regarding the ESC Voting), is because some Scientists have used their Computers, & Computer Programmes, to study ESC Voting Patterns. I never said that the ESC has anything to do with Science - I was saying that some Scientists have studied its Voting Patterns & have confimed that the Voting is biased. If you want to dismiss what the Scientists say - on the grounds that the ESC has nothing to do with them, or Science, then that is up to you. However, they are entitled to study the ESC Voting if they like. Why not? Those here who insist that the ESC have Zero 'Block Voting', & that all is well with the ESC, should go to the BBC 2 Message Boards, (The Eurovision Forum):, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2 And, also to:, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/eurovision/2007 The Click On 'Have Your Say' - you will soon see that a great many UK people are fed up of the ESC Voting Patterns. No doubt they are just as fed up in several other Western European Countries. (The 'Have Your Say' in the 'What Went Wrong?' Box, NOT the 'Your Say' Heading). There are many calls for us to pull out. I reckon the crunch for the UK, will come in the 2008 ESC. If we actually enter a decent Song, & that cannot get anywhere, then even the most fanatical defender of the Voting System will have to start admitting that there are just too many East European Countries in it now, for the UK to get anywhere - so why the Hell should the UK help to prop the ESC up? As for the idea that anyone who moans about the ESC Voting System, thinks the UK is superior, and so on - garbage! I am not, never have been, & never will be, Anti European. I am 100% FOR the EU, as it has kept the peace in Europe, by making us all debate in Political ways, rather than resorting to Wars. Therefore I regard the UK, (& Ireland), being in the EU as 100% essential, sensible, & wise. That does not mean that I see much sense in the UK carrying on entering the ESC if - as it looks - the East will forever swing the Top 10, (or even Top 15), Countries from now on - leaving only a few chances for West European States to get many of the Top places. As some people have pointed out at the BBC - just because the West also hands Points to the East, does not mean that the East is not handing most of its own Points to other Eastern Countries. The 2 things are NOT the same - at all. Sadly - some people think that they are the same! The main consensus now seems to be that the ESC Voting System must change - or the West will start to pull out. After all, the 4 Countries that pay the most towards it are in the West - UK, Germany, France, & Spain. Why pay for a Contest whose Voting System means you can no longer even reach the Top 5 in? We'd have to be insane! And why shouldn't the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand, have a Yearly Song Contest? It is nothing to do with looking down on Europe, & everything to do with the UK having another Song Contest to enter - & one that we actually have a chance to Win! 1) As to how the ESC Voting System should change - well, some are suggesting that we just see the Songs performed on Stage, without being told which Countries they are from. As the Languages used would give clues, we could have all the Acts performing in English - as it is the most widely spoken 2nd Language in the World, & 87% of European Children learn it as a 2nd Language. If all the Entries were in English, & no clues - at all - were given as to which Countries they represented, then the stupid Voting System would not be able to be so biased - everyone would have no choice but to Vote on the SONG that they like the best - and not on which larger Country that theirs used to belong to, or which Countries are next to them, & so on. I think that would be very fair. 2) Another suggestion is that they get rid of the 'Phone Voting altogether - and go back to having a Panel Of Judges in the actual 'Venue', where the ESC takes place - so we can all see how the Judges Vote, without relying on invisible Voting Patterns, via the Telephone. 3) Others have suggested that it is silly & unfair to have all the Countries being able to give out equal numbers of Points, when Russia has a huge Population, & Malta has a tiny Population. That the number of Points available to each Country should be based on how many people live in those Countries. Russia would have the most Points to give out, as it has a Population of almost 144 Million. Germany the next most, as it has almost 82.5 Million people. France & the UK would have the same amount to dish out, as we both have just over 60 Million people. Then the Ukraine - almost 48 Million, Spain, just over 40 Million, Poland, just over 38.6 Million, & so on. (All taken from the CIA Fact Book). The Populations Of The Countries In Europe:, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Territories_and_regions As a contrast,, Malta only has just under 398,000 people - yet it gets the same number of Points to hand out as Russia & its 144 Million people. Whilst some may think it fair that Malta & Russia have the same number of Points to give out, others say that it is clearly silly, as it makes Malta's Vote seem as if 144 Million people live there - or Russia's seem as if only 398,000 people live there. So, there are calls for the Percentage of Points that a Country can hand out, being a reflection of its Population - allowing the bigger Countries to carry more weight in the ESC - including the UK. Again, I repeat that I am not, & never have been Anti European, but that does not mean that I cannot call the ESC a load of tripe, the way it works these days - the Voting System. Just as I am not Anti UK either, but that does not mean that I was not 100% against the Iraq War from Day 1 - because I was. it does not mean that I look down on the UK, (where I was born, & where I live). Only that I disagreed with the War. I am not 'bigoted', & never have been. I am all in favour of the UN, EU, & any other International Forums, for Nations to debate in, take their problems to, & so on. It does not mean that I have to endorse the ESC when it is clearly a joke - far more than it ever was in the past - and that is saying something! Again, I also repeat - Scooch were/are garbage - a joke. They no more represent the UK Music Industry, than Hitler represented World Peace! So, I am certainly NOT being driven by, 'Sour Grapes', in my condemnation of the ESC Voting patterns. Indeed my favourite Act ever are from the European Continent - ABBA. Sadly, it looks like they are going to be the only CREATIVE Global success to ever come out of the ESC. (Celine Dion is successful - Globally - but she interprets Songs - she does not create them. ABBA did). Edited May 20, 200718 yr by zeus555
May 20, 200718 yr Those here who insist that the ESC have Zero 'Block Voting', & that all is well with the ESC, should go to the BBC 2 Message Boards, (The Eurovision Forum) I'm not saying that ESC has no bloc voting, but I have declined to explain my opinion on it for fear of repeating myself for the millionth time :lol: Similar culture = similar music taste = sending acts representative of their cultures (i.e. Molitva as opposed to Flying The Flag) = votes for each other That does not mean that I see much sense in the UK carrying on entering the ESC if - as it looks - the East will forever swing the Top 10, (or even Top 15), Countries from now on - leaving only a few chances for West European States to get many of the Top places. Just because the ex-Yugoslav/Russian bloc succeeded massively this year they will swing it forever more? Only last year we had top ten success c/o Sweden, Greece and Ireland - hell, FINLAND even won :lol: This year will in all likeliness probably just be an anomaly ^_^ As some people have pointed out at the BBC - just because the West also hands Points to the East, does not mean that the East is not handing most of its own Points to other Eastern Countries. The 2 things are NOT the same - at all. Sadly - some people think that they are the same! I am not saying that - I am saying that if the West votes for the East as well, with such 'rife political voting' going on and the West STILL not voting for the West, surely it shows that the Western songs are perhaps of rather bad quality? People are throwing around these accusations of Eastern-centric voting without considering that most of the western entries this year were really not up to scratch :lol: Why pay for a Contest whose Voting System means you can no longer even reach the Top 5 in? We'd have to be insane! Sweden and Finland disprove your point, and most of the Big 4 entries since 2002 have been DIRE - hence our lack of success, but we've still proved on a few occassions we can have top ten success if we try - Germany and Spain in 2004 for example. And why shouldn't the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand, have a Yearly Song Contest? It is nothing to do with looking down on Europe, & everything to do with the UK having another Song Contest to enter - & one that we actually have a chance to Win! Because the entire idea smacks of throwing our toys out of the pram - "I can't be bothered to try and do well in this contest so I'll go start one where there is a 1 in 7 chance of victory" (actually, Ireland came top ten last year so they CAN still do well :lol:) 1) As to how the ESC Voting System should change - well, some are suggesting that we just see the Songs performed on Stage, without being told which Countries they are from. As the Languages used would give clues, we could have all the Acts performing in English - as it is the most widely spoken 2nd Language in the World, & 87% of European Children learn it as a 2nd Language. If all the Entries were in English, & no clues - at all - were given as to which Countries they represented, then the stupid Voting System would not be able to be so biased - everyone would have no choice but to Vote on the SONG that they like the best - and not on which larger Country that theirs used to belong to, or which Countries are next to them, & so on. I think that would be very fair. It's a good idea in principle, BUT accents etc. might give away the game and it would be INCREDIBLY confusing trying to remember which song was which :( And you'd have the obvious argument over the common language... 2) Another suggestion is that they get rid of the 'Phone Voting altogether - and go back to having a Panel Of Judges in the actual 'Venue', where the ESC takes place - so we can all see how the Judges Vote, without relying on invisible Voting Patterns, via the Telephone. If anything, using judges is MORE biased than televoting :lol: Plus, there'd be uproar, and the EBU gets a LOT of ESC funding from televoting these days ;) 3) Others have suggested that it is silly & unfair to have all the Countries being able to give out equal numbers of Points, when Russia has a huge Population, & Malta has a tiny Population. That the number of Points available to each Country should be based on how many people live in those Countries. Russia would have the most Points to give out, as it has a Population of almost 144 Million. Germany the next most, as it has almost 82.5 Million people. France & the UK would have the same amount to dish out, as we both have just over 60 Million people. Then the Ukraine - almost 48 Million, Spain, just over 40 Million, Poland, just over 38.6 Million, & so on. (All taken from the CIA Fact Book). As a contrast,, Malta only has just under 398,000 people - yet it gets the same number of Points to hand out as Russia & its 144 Million people. Whilst some may think it fair that Malta & Russia have the same number of Points to give out, others say that it is clearly silly, as it makes Malta's Vote seem as if 144 Million people live there - or Russia's seem as if only 398,000 people live there. So, there are calls for the Percentage of Points that a Country can hand out, being a reflection of its Population - allowing the bigger Countries to carry more weight in the ESC - including the UK. I did used to think that was a good idea - until I realised that it would ruin our chances even more. Why? Well, it disadvantages us if we can give out more points than we can receive - e.g. say Russia had the power to give 100 points to their favourite entry. That would give smaller countries a HUGE advantage, seeing as the receive/give points ratio is massively imbalanced - countries which have entries which are liked by many smaller countries enough to receive maximum points could end up doing worse than countries which have entries which were liked by one or two big countries. We'd end up doing terribly still :lol:
May 20, 200718 yr Germany really have no excuse...they always send something unique, Country, Swing, Jazz etc... Texas Lightning from last year was excellent and should have gone top 10 at least And they also have a lot of neighbouring/close countries so I don't understand why they always do so badly...
May 20, 200718 yr Germany really have no excuse...they always send something unique, Country, Swing, Jazz etc... Texas Lightning from last year was excellent and should have gone top 10 at least And they also have a lot of neighbouring/close countries so I don't understand why they always do so badly... Because Germany's Eastern neighbours seem to support more their ex Warsaw Pact friends than their Western neighbour. Also in Germany's Western neighbours there are huge populations of immigrants from all around eastern Europe that will push the big points to East.
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