Well,

I see it like this. There are a lot of people in the UK who

think that the Dole 'pays' too much money. It is about £46.85

a Week, for 18 to 24 Year olds, & £59.15 for the 25 & overs.

 

A Tory MP - Matthew Parrish - once tried to manage on Dole Money

for 1 Week, & he was astonished at how little it was, & how he could

simply not get by on it. His cash ran out before the Week ended. He

had to try to borrow off other people.

 

I think that anyone who thinks that Dole Money is too high - or even

adequate - should be forced to try to live on it for 3 Months. so, they can

stop being so holier than thou, & 'I'm All Right Jack'.

 

I also think that anyone who expects others to live on the Minimum Wage,

& for it to be reduced in parts of the UK, should be paid the Minimum Wage

- that they expect others to live on - for 3 Months, at their Jobs - be they an

MP, a Professor, a Doctor, or a Judge - make them live on what they call

for others to live on - for 12 Weeks.

 

We will see how smug they are after that. It's amazing in this World,

how many people expect others to do things that they would not be

prepared to do themselves - like get next to no Dole, or no Dole at all,

or Low Wages. It is called being smug - and hypocritical. It is easy to

look down on poorer peope, if you do not have to live like them....

 

I would never want anyone to do something that I would be too weak to do

myself. It is clearly wrong to expect others to have little money, when you

would not be able to get by on that money yourself.....

 

 

Zues the dole is not meant to be a way of life it is meant to be a TEMPORARY safety net until someone gets a job it is not meant to be a way of life mate, it is TAXPAYERS money to help someone out with basic standards of living till they get a job and those on the dole have an obligation to get a job and actively seek work, the higher the rates of benefit the less incentive there is for someone who is unemployed to actually go and get a job

 

This is not a 3rd world nation there is plenty of jobs about and no real excuse for anyone of adult age to be out of work unless they are severely disabled or whatever, my local paper is full of jobs and I can't walk past a shop without seeing vacancies or whatever so if someone out of work tried hard I am sure they would get a job in no time, ANY sort of job would be better than living on benefits, being in work gives people self respect and being on the dole would NOT, even if a job that is advertised is not someone's preferred career they should still be applying for them, once they are no longer a burden to the taxpayer they can start looking at jobs in their chosen career but until then they should accept any job even if it is McDonalds

 

The less money that is paid out in benefits through unemployed people actually getting work is more money for schools, more money for hospitals, more money for prisons and so on.

 

People out of work and on benefits have an OBLIGATION to change that around

But, if the UK did not engage in stupid - and illegal -

Wars, (like Iraq), then we could have had loads more

cash for Hospitals & Schools, anyhow. Instead we have

spent Billions killing & maiming people in Iraq. Sane?!

 

Also, many people forget that a lot of Unemployed people

were once in Jobs, & they paid Tax & National Insurance

just like everyone else who Works. (Who Works legally!).

 

So, when they become Unemployed, they are just getting

back some of the cash they paid in, when they had a Job. This

idea that only people who are Working are creating Dole

money is just not true - many people who were in Work,

have paid in a lot of that cash too. So people in Work,

& people who WERE in Work, have created that cash.

 

This idea, that everyone out of Work should take any

Job - well, it should apply to everyone. Let's have former

Bank Managers being forced to be Shelf Stackers in Asda,

or Tesco, & former 'High Flyers' in 'The City', being made

to be Refuse Collectors - Bin Men!.

 

If poor people ought to take any Job, then Middle Class people

should have to be made to do the same - and if they lose their

cars, holidays, & nice houses - then so be it.

 

That is true Equality!

Edited June 19, 200718 yr by zeus555

You missed my point entirely Rob, yes I used someone from here as an example but only to expose your suggestion that the ones you are referring to are bad mothers, why should ANYONE have their kids taken away from them unless they are physically or sexually abusing that kid ? many single teenage mothers give their kids 1000 times the love that many middle class professional married women do. Yes your post did not exactly refer to the example I gave of a member from here but it is not up to you to play god mate and say people should have their kids put up for adoption when in many if not most cases the kid is getting looked after better than ABC1 kids

 

i didnt miss your point at all, you changed the emphisis on what id said.

 

the point is that no one should have a kid IF they cannot support it. why should i pay to support a career baby machines lifestyle? if as you say, this member is a good mother and is supporting her child then how does that include her in the ones im on about?.

 

thats bollox craig... if so many teenage mums were such good parents then why do their kids grow up to be scummy chav kids? the porblems INVARIABLY come from such households and not from the middle classes you seem to think are bad parents. it aint rich kids mugging old ladies, hanging around the streets and generaly being obnoxious pillocks. (of course it aint exactly their fault they are in that situation... but hey.. theyll just grow up to go popping out more bratts and we pay for them).

 

and im NOT saying ALL young mothers are bad mothers.

i didnt miss your point at all, you changed the emphisis on what id said.

 

the point is that no one should have a kid IF they cannot support it. why should i pay to support a career baby machines lifestyle? if as you say, this member is a good mother and is supporting her child then how does that include her in the ones im on about?.

 

thats bollox craig... if so many teenage mums were such good parents then why do their kids grow up to be scummy chav kids? the porblems INVARIABLY come from such households and not from the middle classes you seem to think are bad parents. it aint rich kids mugging old ladies, hanging around the streets and generaly being obnoxious pillocks. (of course it aint exactly their fault they are in that situation... but hey.. theyll just grow up to go popping out more bratts and we pay for them).

 

and im NOT saying ALL young mothers are bad mothers.

 

You still haven't convinced me mate

 

There is a big drugs problem in my town and several other problems in my High St mostly related to drugs but there is not a single council estate anywhere near my town it is the kids of middle class to upper middle class PROFESSIONALS that are doing this and are getting stoned on dope and cocaine and smashing up bus shelters, lots of money does not mean good parent while no money = bad parent, not the case at all, I don't link quality of parenting to household income, look at the McCann's for example. There are thousands of well heeled scummy middle class kids, not long ago several pupils from the local posh fee paying school were expelled or suspended for drugs and the fees for that school are the equivalent of half of my annual wage

Edited June 19, 200718 yr by Vic Vega

im generalising, and generally single parents or teenage parents generally come from poorer areas such as council estates. generally its kids from poorer homes that generally get into trouble, it aint exclusive but social deprevation and thick parent/s do tend to produce scummy chavs.

 

of course there are allways exceptions to any generalisation.

Well,

I see it like this. There are a lot of people in the UK who

think that the Dole 'pays' too much money. It is about £46.85

a Week, for 18 to 24 Year olds, & £59.15 for the 25 & overs.

 

A Tory MP - Matthew Parrish - once tried to manage on Dole Money

for 1 Week, & he was astonished at how little it was, & how he could

simply not get by on it. His cash ran out before the Week ended. He

had to try to borrow off other people.

 

I think that anyone who thinks that Dole Money is too high - or even

adequate - should be forced to try to live on it for 3 Months. so, they can

stop being so holier than thou, & 'I'm All Right Jack'.

 

I also think that anyone who expects others to live on the Minimum Wage,

& for it to be reduced in parts of the UK, should be paid the Minimum Wage

- that they expect others to live on - for 3 Months, at their Jobs - be they an

MP, a Professor, a Doctor, or a Judge - make them live on what they call

for others to live on - for 12 Weeks.

 

We will see how smug they are after that. It's amazing in this World,

how many people expect others to do things that they would not be

prepared to do themselves - like get next to no Dole, or no Dole at all,

or Low Wages. It is called being smug - and hypocritical. It is easy to

look down on poorer peope, if you do not have to live like them....

 

I would never want anyone to do something that I would be too weak to do

myself. It is clearly wrong to expect others to have little money, when you

would not be able to get by on that money yourself.....

 

Spot on mate.... I did a couple of P/T minimum wage jobs myself as a Student, and it really is a fukkin' joke that they expect people living in London or SE to be able to live on that... You're correct, the people who have a downer on the minimum wage are generally the well-off, in well-paid jobs that they sure as hell would not be willing to do for £5.35 per hour.. The EU "Decency Threshold" is something like £6.50.... THAT should be our absolute minimum wage IMO, especially for people working in London and the SE, just how is £5.35 per hour supposed to act as an incentive to people on the dole getting their housing benefit and council tax rebates, having a job is supposed to make you better off, not just as skint as sitting on your arse..... I'm sorry, but I really dont blame people for sitting on the dole when the minimum wage is the fukkin' joke that it is..... And I reckon more than about 90% of companies (perhaps not small businesses, whom I would perhaps exempt if they could actually show proof that paying a higher wage would not be sustainable...) can easily afford to pay their employees a decent living wage of at least £7 per hour.....

Well,

I see it like this. There are a lot of people in the UK who

think that the Dole 'pays' too much money. It is about £46.85

a Week, for 18 to 24 Year olds, & £59.15 for the 25 & overs.

 

A Tory MP - Matthew Parrish - once tried to manage on Dole Money

for 1 Week, & he was astonished at how little it was, & how he could

simply not get by on it. His cash ran out before the Week ended. He

had to try to borrow off other people.

 

I think that anyone who thinks that Dole Money is too high - or even

adequate - should be forced to try to live on it for 3 Months. so, they can

stop being so holier than thou, & 'I'm All Right Jack'.

 

I also think that anyone who expects others to live on the Minimum Wage,

& for it to be reduced in parts of the UK, should be paid the Minimum Wage

- that they expect others to live on - for 3 Months, at their Jobs - be they an

MP, a Professor, a Doctor, or a Judge - make them live on what they call

for others to live on - for 12 Weeks.

 

We will see how smug they are after that. It's amazing in this World,

how many people expect others to do things that they would not be

prepared to do themselves - like get next to no Dole, or no Dole at all,

or Low Wages. It is called being smug - and hypocritical. It is easy to

look down on poorer peope, if you do not have to live like them....

 

I would never want anyone to do something that I would be too weak to do

myself. It is clearly wrong to expect others to have little money, when you

would not be able to get by on that money yourself.....

 

Post of the week - 100% spot on.

im generalising, and generally single parents or teenage parents generally come from poorer areas such as council estates. generally its kids from poorer homes that generally get into trouble, it aint exclusive but social deprevation and thick parent/s do tend to produce scummy chavs.

 

of course there are allways exceptions to any generalisation.

 

Yes mate, you are generalising...... Although I'm guilty of it as well... But I think that the McCann's show us that so-called "decent, respectable" people are just as neglectful towards their kids as some Chavs on council estates..... Kids from well-off families might not go around joyriding or nicking, but look at the amount of them that end up with depression, anxiety, suicidal feelings, self-harming and having to go on sodding PROZAC and other anti-depressants at younger and younger ages..... <_< <_< Just because those kids internalise it does not mean it is any less debilitating to society in general... We are raising generations of intellectual and emotional cripples, NOT a good thing which ever way you cut it mate.....

oh ive worked for rich buggers who thought that my rates were too high, i told them 'you didnt get this place by working for a fiver an hour, why should i' ?...

The problem with small employers is if you increase the minimum wage then they either have to increase their costs if they can, if they can't because the big supermarket round the corner will undercut them then they go out of business and both them and their employees end up on the dole. So you can't just keep increasing the min wage to £7 or £8 etc would not be sustainable.

good point brian, when i went self employed i used my horticultural skills to grow bedding plant to sell to my customers..... that idea didnt last long as the garden centres and diy stores could produce them much cheaper then i could!

Spot on Brian, the minimum wage is about right for what it is now, the more it goes up the more business costs go up and the more prices get raised and the more prices get raised the higher the level of inflation and everyone ends up paying the price, and those that are on minimum wage are by and large kids and unskilled people who by and large can't afford to run cars and don't have mortgages and so on

The problem with small employers is if you increase the minimum wage then they either have to increase their costs if they can, if they can't because the big supermarket round the corner will undercut them then they go out of business and both them and their employees end up on the dole. So you can't just keep increasing the min wage to £7 or £8 etc would not be sustainable.

 

Which is why I said if small businesses could prove that it would not be sustainable for them, then they could continue to pay a lower level... The big chains and companies who make billions of profits every year should be compelled to pay their employees at least £7 an hour, I will not budge on this, because as far as I'm concerned they're just profiteering and it really angers me when you see mangers award themselves huge bonuses when it is their work-force that actually give these bonuses through their hard graft....

Spot on Brian, the minimum wage is about right for what it is now, the more it goes up the more business costs go up and the more prices get raised and the more prices get raised the higher the level of inflation and everyone ends up paying the price, and those that are on minimum wage are by and large kids and unskilled people who by and large can't afford to run cars and don't have mortgages and so on

So, you have no problems with Fat Cat bosses giving themselves £2million quid bonuses then while their workers are expected to scrape by on a poverty-level "wage"....? Sorry, I find that disgusting and morally indefensible..... These companies are earning profits running into billions, stop making excuses for their greed....

 

So, you have no problems with Fat Cat bosses giving themselves £2million quid bonuses then while their workers are expected to scrape by on a poverty-level "wage"....? Sorry, I find that disgusting and morally indefensible..... These companies are earning profits running into billions, stop making excuses for their greed....

 

I have no problem with the big bonuses at all that they get paid tbh as it is purely a small % of the revenue that their talents have bought to the company in terms of profit.

 

I don't think greed is a good thing but I am fine with a CEO doubling profits and getting a cut of the money for himself, provided the profits of the company justify the bonus then I am all for it as it filters down, a CEO generating some new deals means more workers are hired to meet the demand so it filters down the chain so if he gets a cut out of what he bought in then thats great as everyone has in a way benefitted

I have no problem with the big bonuses at all that they get paid tbh as it is purely a small % of the revenue that their talents have bought to the company in terms of profit.

 

I don't think greed is a good thing but I am fine with a CEO doubling profits and getting a cut of the money for himself, provided the profits of the company justify the bonus then I am all for it as it filters down, a CEO generating some new deals means more workers are hired to meet the demand so it filters down the chain so if he gets a cut out of what he bought in then thats great as everyone has in a way benefitted

 

The benefits don't filter down to the workers though Craig, that's the whole problem.... Giving the workers a decent raise in wages is surely a small % of revenue as well... Say what you like about the bosses, at the end of the day, it's the graft of the WORKERS that actually physically gets the profits in.... Bosses can come up with as many graphs, pie charts and initiatives as they want, it is the WORKERS who actually do the sodding graft..... It is THEY who should get the rewards.....

 

I'd imagine Vic Vega spends more on fruit for his marathon jam-making parties for the Tory gatherings than most unemployed people receive every fortnight.

 

It's all very well being haughty about dole, and yes, there are plenty of scroungers, but I have family members who are unemployed and DESPERATE to work. And maybe Vic would like to follow the fascist MP he follows and try LIVING on £114 a fortnight... then come back to us and let us know how he did? I'd imagine he'd be too hungry to be smug then -_-

I'd imagine Vic Vega spends more on fruit for his marathon jam-making parties for the Tory gatherings than most unemployed people receive every fortnight.

 

It's all very well being haughty about dole, and yes, there are plenty of scroungers, but I have family members who are unemployed and DESPERATE to work. And maybe Vic would like to follow the fascist MP he follows and try LIVING on £114 a fortnight... then come back to us and let us know how he did? I'd imagine he'd be too hungry to be smug then -_-

 

I am a member of my local Conservative Club Russ but I much prefer the cheap beer, slot machines and golf days to jam making tbh ^_^

 

Are you telling me Russ that there is literally no jobs of any sort in the places where your family members are ? or is it a case they want to do certain types of work and can't get vacancies in that area ?

 

If there are literally not a single vacancy why don't they relocate to somewhere where there are more jobs ? many companies have call centres and so on in South Wales and Sony have their UK manufacturing base there and so on so surely rather than living on £57 a week they are better relocating and getting £300 a week or more ?

yeah... like its really feasible for poor people out of work to re-locate :lol:

Are you telling me Russ that there is literally no jobs of any sort in the places where your family members are ? or is it a case they want to do certain types of work and can't get vacancies in that area ?

 

If there are literally not a single vacancy why don't they relocate to somewhere where there are more jobs ? many companies have call centres and so on in South Wales and Sony have their UK manufacturing base there and so on so surely rather than living on £57 a week they are better relocating and getting £300 a week or more ?

 

I live in the South Wales valleys, Vic.... the only industry here, remember, was coal mining.... ahem.

 

The only factory within 10 miles of here has this week announced it's to close. The other one, Burberry, you may recall took its 'British' name to China a few months ago.

 

As for wanting to do different types of work... they were all miners, Vic. The JobCentre have made it clear to them that if they want to study, they won't be able to claim their allowance. Plus, there ARE no universities or colleges near here - the nearest is over 10 miles away.

 

Relocating? How? Selling a house here is difficult enough - and without a job - how can you move anywhere else, undoubtedly far more expensive?

 

The Call Centres you mention are in Cardiff - almost 30 miles from here, and public transport in this area is laughable - there ARE no trains.... and buses, when they run, run at one an hour - until 3.45pm.

 

What your glorious ex-leader forgot to mention when she destroyed the coal industry was that she had NO alternatives for the people left unemployed because of it.