I think you misunderstood me.. I was comparing the people of the 1700s to the people of the 1800s.... Slavery was abolished in this country in the 1700s.... So, basically we realised that slaves were human beings with a right to life and liberty, but these things just seemed totally forgotten about when we went around destroying indigenous cultures in India and Africa decades later in the Victorian era...... Surely something's a bit wrong there dont you think....? We regressed rather than progressed......

 

 

not at all... in the 1700's we treated black people as animals, in the 1800's we treaded them as objects of riddicule, by the end of the 1900's we try to treat them as equals... hell if i was a blackman id sooner them laugh at me (1800's) rather then enslave me (most of the 1700's).

 

we may have destroyed indiginous cultures, but we also in the long term benefited them by bringing civilisation to them. do you think we should have let them be? no education or civilisation? leave them in the stoneage?... there was never going to be a smooth transition once they were found, and found they would be, inevitable.

 

the invasion of foreign lands and its peoples may not have gone fantastically well... but it never could really and 'eggs were due to be broken'.

I'm a bit unsure why you're so pro-Muslim, Scott. After all, aren't these the same neanderthal people who believe that, because of your sexuality, you're 'lower than a dog' and should be 'eradicated'? :huh:

 

 

....... and women are fair game for subjucation?

Looks to me as some followers of the muslim faith won't be happy until they have either eradicated the rest of us or converted us.

Looks to me as some followers of the muslim faith won't be happy until they have either eradicated the rest of us or converted us.

 

exactly... and the ones that (apparently) don't... well, they seem ominously silent on the bad deeds of the others who practise this most backward of religions. What the majority of Muslims who apparently back terror attacks and segregation are doing - and especially the absurd Muslim Council of Britain - is proving to the rest of us that their faith not only has no place in Britain - it has no place in ANY decent, civilised, 21st century country. Whatsoever.

 

And Rob... too true.

not at all... in the 1700's we treated black people as animals, in the 1800's we treaded them as objects of riddicule, by the end of the 1900's we try to treat them as equals... hell if i was a blackman id sooner them laugh at me (1800's) rather then enslave me (most of the 1700's).

 

we may have destroyed indiginous cultures, but we also in the long term benefited them by bringing civilisation to them. do you think we should have let them be? no education or civilisation? leave them in the stoneage?... there was never going to be a smooth transition once they were found, and found they would be, inevitable.

 

the invasion of foreign lands and its peoples may not have gone fantastically well... but it never could really and 'eggs were due to be broken'.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh, come on mate, you're honestly trying to tell me we did it for "their own good" and NOT because they had lots of gold, diamonds and oil, what utter bollocks..... We had no intention of "educating" them at all, we left the people of Africa with no means to run their own affairs because VERY FEW Africans actually had a decent education, the Belgians were actually ultimately responsible for the genocide in Rwanda because they separated the Tutsis and Hutus into rival factions (the old "divide and conquer" maxim), where no rivalry had actually existed before European colonisation - the Tutsis were farmers, the Hutus were goatherders and shepherds, erm, that's it..... So THAT was for the Rwandan's "own good" was it...?? Rubbish mate..... <_< What we Europeans did in Africa is morally and ethically indefensible and fuelled purely by our own Capitalist, Imperialist greed, our own 'savagery', nothing more, the Africans are a noble, proud race who did NOTHING to harm us, WE were the savages who raped them in every way possible, simple as... The people of India had their OWN system of govt and Monarchy, their OWN businesses and commerce, they were very far from being "ignorant savages"... Ditto for Japan and China, other countries we disgustingly exploited for our own ends, I would argue that Japan and China were LOT more culturally advanced than Europe ever was, both were sailing the oceans and trading while we were being painting ourselves blue and running around the hills naked... And somehow, they never even thought to 'invade' or "civilise" us....

Looks to me as some followers of the muslim faith won't be happy until they have either eradicated the rest of us or converted us.

 

 

And how is that essentially any different to our general attitude towards the Africans, Indians and Native Americans in the past then.....? As many American chat shows are fond of saying "what goes around comes around", we Europeans did all the sh!t we did for hundreds of years, now it's come back to bite us in the arse.... In many ways, we deserve it frankly.... To paraphrase Clive Dunn in "Dad's Army" - "They don't like it up 'em"......

 

Obviously, I'd rather it was Marxism that brought Western Capitalism, hypocrisy and greed to its knees.....

I'm a bit unsure why you're so pro-Muslim, Scott. After all, aren't these the same neanderthal people who believe that, because of your sexuality, you're 'lower than a dog' and should be 'eradicated'? :huh:

 

And if I went to live in certain Southern US States or certain Catholic-dominated states in Africa or Eastern Europe I'd probably be stoned to death by fundamentalist Christian fanatics, so your point is....? Let's not pretend that the Catholic faith in particular actually likes us any more than the Jihadis do.....

 

I'm not Pro the Religion, I just dont believe we should be going around assuming that all Muslims, and indeed Arabs, are bad people.... And I dont like the way the Media in particular is deliberately stirring up sh!t for its own ends.....

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: Oh, come on mate, you're honestly trying to tell me we did it for "their own good" and NOT because they had lots of gold, diamonds and oil, what utter bollocks..... We had no intention of "educating" them at all, we left the people of Africa with no means to run their own affairs because VERY FEW Africans actually had a decent education, the Belgians were actually ultimately responsible for the genocide in Rwanda because they separated the Tutsis and Hutus into rival factions (the old "divide and conquer" maxim), where no rivalry had actually existed before European colonisation - the Tutsis were farmers, the Hutus were goatherders and shepherds, erm, that's it..... So THAT was for the Rwandan's "own good" was it...?? Rubbish mate..... <_< What we Europeans did in Africa is morally and ethically indefensible and fuelled purely by our own Capitalist, Imperialist greed, our own 'savagery', nothing more, the Africans are a noble, proud race who did NOTHING to harm us, WE were the savages who raped them in every way possible, simple as... The people of India had their OWN system of govt and Monarchy, their OWN businesses and commerce, they were very far from being "ignorant savages"... Ditto for Japan and China, other countries we disgustingly exploited for our own ends, I would argue that Japan and China were LOT more culturally advanced than Europe ever was, both were sailing the oceans and trading while we were being painting ourselves blue and running around the hills naked... And somehow, they never even thought to 'invade' or "civilise" us....

 

 

very eloquent m8, but thats not what i said or meant! :P

 

my point stands, slowly over the last 200 odd years we have embraced equality., and those cartoons were perfectly ok.

And if I went to live in certain Southern US States or certain Catholic-dominated states in Africa or Eastern Europe I'd probably be stoned to death by fundamentalist Christian fanatics, so your point is....? Let's not pretend that the Catholic faith in particular actually likes us any more than the Jihadis do.....

 

I'm not Pro the Religion, I just dont believe we should be going around assuming that all Muslims, and indeed Arabs, are bad people.... And I dont like the way the Media in particular is deliberately stirring up sh!t for its own ends.....

 

you're missing my point, Scott.

 

These people don't preach their filth from some Southern US state... they preach it HERE in the UK, and try to amend OUR laws and principles and values to suit their prejudiced, undemocratic and frankly ludicrous religion.

 

THAT'S why I'm angry - not because of some lay preacher singing brotherly love and God Hates Fags in Kansas.

 

I don't for a minute think that ALL Muslims are bad people at all..... but it does worry me greatly that their official spokespeople - the Muslim Council of Great Britain... are very muted in their condemnation of terror attacks here in the UK*, and they continue to spout their outdated nonsense about women's rights and homosexuality with zero opposing comments or opinions being heard anywhere from the Muslim communities. The stark fact that you may not like to hear, Scott, is this - to practise the Muslim faith... you HAVE to firmly believe the fundamental principles of it - and two of these are clearly that women are second class citizens.... and the other is that homosexuality is utterly unacceptable under any circumstances. NEITHER of these principles sit well AT ALL with the way British people live their lives or the way British non-Muslims think. So what happens now?

 

*It may be worth mentioning, too, that a recent nationwide poll showed that a staggering SIXTY EIGHT PERCENT of UK Muslims believe the London bomb attacks were justified. SIXTY EIGHT PERCENT!!!?!?!?

Edited June 20, 200718 yr by russt68

you're missing my point, Scott.

 

These people don't preach their filth from some Southern US state... they preach it HERE in the UK, and try to amend OUR laws and principles and values to suit their prejudiced, undemocratic and frankly ludicrous religion.

 

THAT'S why I'm angry - not because of some lay preacher singing brotherly love and God Hates Fags in Kansas.

 

I don't for a minute think that ALL Muslims are bad people at all..... but it does worry me greatly that their official spokespeople - the Muslim Council of Great Britain... are very muted in their condemnation of terror attacks here in the UK*, and they continue to spout their outdated nonsense about women's rights and homosexuality with zero opposing comments or opinions being heard anywhere from the Muslim communities. The stark fact that you may not like to hear, Scott, is this - to practise the Muslim faith... you HAVE to firmly believe the fundamental principles of it - and two of these are clearly that women are second class citizens.... and the other is that homosexuality is utterly unacceptable under any circumstances. NEITHER of these principles sit well AT ALL with the way British people live their lives or the way British non-Muslims think. So what happens now?

 

*It may be worth mentioning, too, that a recent nationwide poll showed that a staggering SIXTY EIGHT PERCENT of UK Muslims believe the London bomb attacks were justified. SIXTY EIGHT PERCENT!!!?!?!?

 

Well, to be honest mate, considering the massacre we committed in Iraq upon thousands of innocent civilians in our illegal war, we were kind of due some sort of retaliation.... Not saying it was right, but I am saying we should've expected it to happen, MI5 and the JIC warned the Govt that invading Iraq would increase the chances of terrorist attacks in UK, they were ignored and it happened, simple as..... I blame Tony Blair and his cronies just as much as the people who actually committed the deed, and seeing these cynical b/astards weep their crocodile tears for the people of London and pretending that they "understood our pain" and then making political capital out of it frankly disgusted me to the very core of my being..... Bear in mind that there were only 54 people killed in those attacks as compared to 27,000 Iraqis in the "Shock and Awe" assault..... I think we have to put this in some kind of perspective....

Everybody has the right to an opinion, Scott.

 

However, many Muslims just don't seem to think so.

 

I seem to recall demands for terrorist activity, death to Scandanavians (on a massive scale) and calls for beheadings when a bloody CARTOON of the paedophile prophet was printed not so very long ago.

 

i wonder would you would have said this if your address was listed

I'd have said exactly the same thing - empty threats from religious zealots scare me not one bit. In fact, I'd probably have said it twice.

 

The fact is in the Koran for all to read.... Mohammed's lover was NINE years old. In anyone's language that's a paedophile, surely? Maybe the Muslim community would like to cover up and probably defend this rather hushed-up fact, but a fact it is.

 

If they think it's fine to stone and kick women suspected of having affairs to death and call for death to homosexuals whilst they're worshipping a paedophile who shagged a nine year old girl and savoured it... well, how much moe f***ed up can a religion get? :blink:

I'd have said exactly the same thing - empty threats from religious zealots scare me not one bit. In fact, I'd probably have said it twice.

 

The fact is in the Koran for all to read.... Mohammed's lover was NINE years old. In anyone's language that's a paedophile, surely? Maybe the Muslim community would like to cover up and probably defend this rather hushed-up fact, but a fact it is.

 

If they think it's fine to stone and kick women suspected of having affairs to death and call for death to homosexuals whilst they're worshipping a paedophile who shagged a nine year old girl and savoured it... well, how much moe f***ed up can a religion get? :blink:

 

I don't think concepts such as "paedophilia" really existed about a thousand or so years ago Russ (the ancient Greeks and Romans were notorious for acts of "paedophilia" as well, but we shrug it off and say "well, that's just how things were back then..."), and I reckon you could easily unearth similar acts of "paedophilia" in our own dear old "Holy" Bible, isn't there some story about an innkeeper offering up his wife and daughter to a passing stranger......? Of course, seeing as how the Bible was basically censored for the King James version, we dont even have the full text anyway, I suspect there are far worse things being convieniently left out, at least the Koran seems to be "warts and all"....

 

not sure about that scott, as i understand it puberty was the benchmark of what was acceptable and what was not. i also believe that many mediterrainian countrys puberty is or was reached at a much earlier age then nowdays.

 

if this was true then a 9 year old (brought up in a world where childhood didnt exsist, they were 'mini' adults) who had reached puberty wouldnt be frowned upon the same way as we do today.

if this was true then a 9 year old (brought up in a world where childhood didnt exsist, they were 'mini' adults) who had reached puberty wouldnt be frowned upon the same way as we do today.

 

Which is basically my argument.. The concept simply didn't really exist...

 

btw Scott have you heard of the Deepa Mehta film Water??? was it worth all the protests too???