Artists taking credit for other's songs

 

jam.canoe.ca

 

NEW YORK (AP) - Of all the names in music, Chantal Kreviazuk may be the least likely to appear in a headline. Although she recently released her own album, the songwriter usually stays behind the scenes to pen hits with artists such as Kelly Clarkson, Gwen Stefani and Avril Lavigne.

 

But earlier this month, Kreviazuk rocked the pop music world by suggesting that Lavigne was a collaborator in name only. Although she quickly retracted her comments and others defended Lavigne, the flap illuminated a long-standing fraud that has become more prevalent than ever: "singer-songwriters" who do much less songwriting than their publicists would have you believe.

 

"It's crazy!" exclaimed Grammy-winning songwriter Diane Warren, who has written for artists such as Whitney Houston, Celine Dion and Mary J. Blige. "How can someone look in the mirror and know they didn't do something and their name is on it? For money? For credit? It's a lie."

 

This being the music industry, money is, of course, a factor, since the writers of hit songs can earn more than the singer over the long term. But today's singers also press for writing credit because it gives them more of a cache, presenting them as more of a "real artist" in comparison with a star who doesn't write a note.

 

"It's a practice that's been going on, but now it's really prevalent in every situation," says songwriter Adonis Shropshire, who helped pen the hit "My Boo" for Alicia Keys and Usher, and has worked with Chris Brown, Ciara and others.

 

Shropshire says that many artists will only allow songwriters to work on an album in return for song credit, and "if they do write, they ask for more publishing than they honestly contributed . . . it is the way it is."

 

 

The practice has been prevalent for decades. Elvis Presley's manager, Col. Tom Parker, manoeuvred to give the King songwriting credits on early hits like "Love Me Tender" even though he never wrote a word. James Brown was sued by an associate over song credits. Lauryn Hill settled a lawsuit by a group that claimed she improperly took sole production and writing credit on her Grammy-winning album "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill." And Diddy seemed to acknowledge claims that he wasn't really writing his raps in the "Bad Boys for Life" song with the brush-off line: "Don't worry if I write rhymes, I write cheques!"

 

The notion that serious artists have to write their own songs seems to have grown over the past two decades. Today, even the fluffiest of pop acts is credited as having written their own material.

 

"We as an industry . . . don't look at someone who has an incredible voice as an artist, whereas having an incredible voice is artistry," says Jody Gerson, an executive vice-president of EMI Music Publishing. "I think people place more of a value on an artist if they write their own songs; it gives them credibility."

 

Indeed, Lavigne's songwriting abilities have been touted since she broke out as a teen with the hit "Complicated." But how much she contributed to her music has long been scrutinized.

 

On her first album, Lavigne worked with the writing trio The Matrix, but ditched them on her second album when she felt they were taking too much credit for the songs. "I am a writer, and I won't accept people trying to take that away from me, and anyone who does is ignorant and doesn't know what they're talking about," she defiantly told The Associated Press in 2004.

 

She connected with Kreviazuk for her sophomore album and the two became close friends. Kreviazuk lauded her songwriting ability in an interview with AP, also in 2004 - which made Kreviazuk's comments to Performing Songwriting Magazine all the more curious.

 

"I mean, Avril, songwriter? Avril doesn't really sit and write songs by herself or anything. Avril will also cross the ethical line, and no one says anything," Kreviazuk - who was not included on Lavigne's latest album - told the magazine before retracting her statement. The Matrix later came out to defend Lavigne's songwriting integrity.

 

Grammy-winning songwriter Dallas Austin says he's had a manager rave about a song Austin wrote all by himself, and then tell him, "We wanna know if we can get a piece of the pie on it because (the artist) wants to feel like she has a part ownership on the song.

 

"And I'll say, 'In all fairness, no. . . . If you want to work with me at least sit here and put something into it, instead of coming after I've done everything and try and claim percentages on it."'

 

Gerson calls the practice unfair but says it's "pretty prevalent in pop and R&B . . . I think the way people now divide publishing splits is who was in the room. 'OK . . . I changed the word 'the' to 'a,' and I deserve 10 per cent of the publishing."'

 

Sean Garrett, who has created smashes for Beyonce, Kelis, Fergie and others, says he gave up credit when he was just starting out, which is common for newcomers. "It bothered me, but I knew it was just a price that I had to pay to continue my career and stay focused with the big prize," he says.

 

Ne-Yo, a true singer-songwriter who co-wrote Beyonce's "Irreplaceable," says early in his career he had to deal with the same thing. He says some artists feel they are doing a novice a favour by recording their song - especially if it becomes a hit - so they deserve a piece of the royalties.

 

"If you're an unknown songwriter and you are lucky enough to get on a superstar's album and you know that the song is going to be a single," Ne-Yo says, "and it means if it becomes No. 1 everyone is going to know your name because you wrote it, I think it's worth giving up a piece of publishing . . . you are going to make your money back."

 

Shropshire recalls working with an A-list singer, whom he did not want to name, who wrote two words on a song and ended up getting a large piece of the publishing rights. But he couldn't complain when the song became a hit.

 

"It didn't really bother me that much. The song came out and it did wonderfully well," he says. "That's just the way the industry works."

 

That shouldn't be the case, says Warren. Although she had credit taken from her early in her career, she quickly put a stop to it. Later, one major superstar demanded some of Warren's royalties for the privilege of said superstar recording her song. But Warren refused.

 

"It's like, 'OK, you want some publishing? OK, then, give me a piece of the money you're making touring for the next five years for the hit I just wrote you."

 

But now that songwriters like Warren, Garrett and Ne-Yo are established, they rarely find themselves taken advantage of any more.

 

"I give other people credit where credit is due, like Beyonce really did vocally arrange ('Irreplaceable')," Ne-Yo says. "So for someone to come in and take my credit because they are who they are? That doesn't work for me. I don't care who you are. . . . I'm not going to give you something you don't deserve."

 

Any Comments?

 

 

I've long been suspicious of the pop act whose second album is suddenly co-written by the artist him/herself.

Think about it. Your debut is bubbly, catchy and hollow, written by a team of suits in Orlando. Good enough for one album but what next? The second album needs a gimmick or a something to market... how about, you co-wrote the songs! Now you're credible, legitimate and more mature. You've grown as an artist. Your lyrics are more personal and complicated. You're even more marketable! Let the millions pour in...

now would everyone rather me post a picture of Nat Imbruglia or the slaphead from Danny Wilson??? now which shall i post?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/95/Transister1.jpg/220px-Transister1.jpg

 

Slaphead wins :lol:

btw James Blunt has been working with Max Martin - be affraid be very affraid

I can't say this surprises me in the slightest, especially in reference to the "Canuck Con-Artist".... I've never really bought into Lavigne's so-called "song-writing" ability, she was marketed by a bunch of suits right from the get-go as being this Alanis-lite teenage "sensation", and frankly, she's done very little to actually prove herself to be worthy of her name being said in the same sentence as Alanis, Sheryl Crow, Tori Amos, Joni Mitchell, Tracey Chapman or Suzanne Vega.... Now she's ripping off long-forgotten Pop Stars and fringe acts like Peaches for ideas.... As far as I'm concerned her credibility as a "singer-songwriter" is shot to pieces, she is a manufactured Pop Act.....

I have read about this for a long time, and it does show, I found some of kelly Clarksons songs being VERY April Lavern when the same songwriters wrote for her- you can tell a songwriters signature, a turn of phrase..lyrics, subject matter, much like books.

its such a con! but it obviously works, as people glibbly acknowledge the songwriting skills of some very dubious people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't say this surprises me in the slightest, especially in reference to the "Canuck Con-Artist".

 

Some of you may remember that there was talk of a film being made about 'Sk8ter Boi'. Thankfully it seems like it's stuck in development hell for eternity, but around the time they were talking about it being made Avril Lavigne was moaning that she didn't have any say in it... and her 'co-writers', the British songwriter team called The Matrix said in an interview they were working very closely on the film. Now if Avril Lavigne had written 'Sk8ter Boi' then surely she would have had some say in it.

 

Anyway, I'm not at all surprised by this article. Most of the information in it has come out in some form before. They often try to make artists who are just singers look more credible by giving them an undue writing credit, and as the article says it has been going on since at least Elvis Presley. Like the article says, sometimes if an A-list act uses one of a writer's songs the act gets a writing credit as the song would be more likely to be a big hit if a well known act uses it. It also can work the other way round as well- sometimes someone who wrote a substansial amount of a song doesn't get a writing credit. For example Quincy Jones has claimed he did uncredited work on some of Michael Jackson's songs.

It's funny, because I was just listening to Vanessa Carlton, who, if you remember when she (and Michelle Branch) came onto the music scene back in '02, was seen as the absolute antithesis of artists like Britney Spears and Mandy Moore, having less reliance on slick production and instead being grounded with piano and lyrics that bleed passion (instead of saccharine love proclamations that were the staple of Britney's bland form of pop at that time). I find her to be a lot more "real" than all of these Avril's and Britney's out there. She writes her own music and doesn't have a problem at all in saying when she collaborates with other writers on her material, too (infact, she mentioned the other night in concert how she made the smallest contribution to the lyrics of a song called "The One"). I have a lot more respect for someone like Carlton who writes & plays her own music and doesn't have a problem at all in saying if she's had help to write a song or made little contribution, lyrically, to a song rather than someone who just adds their name at the end of the writing-credits simply because of their status in the music industry, or because they they've changed the word "the" to "a" that they feel they should take all of the writing-credit.

 

It's artists like Carlton and Branch who should be succeeding in the music industry, not the Avril's and Britney's, IMO.

Edited July 24, 200717 yr by Off_Da_Endz

As already has been said, this is a practice going way back in the recording industry. Where Elvis was concerned, it only involved a handful of songs early on in his career and it was a case of his song publishers Hill and Range (partners of Elvis and the Colonel in Elvis Presley and Gladys Music), obtaining a cut-in on publishing royalties and Elvis would get half the writer’s share. What writer would refuse the chance of Elvis recording their song when he was the hottest young singer in the business, and as Otis Blackwell, writer of Don’t Be Cruel later said,’ …..there was little question it was worth it.’ All parties would benefit.

However, I can’t comment on today’s artists as I’m not sure if the same reasoning applies to the practise nowadays.

The more I see / hear of Avril Lavigne, the less I think of her.

 

Oh, this thing also goes for the likes of the Spice Girls, Sugababes and All Saints 'writing' their songs by humming something tunelessly and contributing f***ing awful lyrics cf. 'I'll take a shower, I will scour'

 

Mind you, most songwriters aren't going to knock back a co-credit on a record that will sell bucketloads, even if they did do 95% of the work...that's much better than having your song sung by some nobody on the verge of being dropped.

 

50% of Millions is better than 100% of nothing...even if you do lose all your integrity.

in a way its yet another way to get even more money back to the labels, as it is they seem to get most of the profits from singers by reclaiming back so much of their advances for promo, etc. the songwriter is the one who stands to gain from the songs royalties..but if the label can get some of those off them for their singers..then they in turn can get their hands on it when the singer has to repay them!

I can see a lot of songwriters giving in to giving up credits in order to gain airplay and at least a share of royalties, as posted 100% of nothing is nothing

....................and if the singer is the first songwriter on every album track, they make him/her really expensive videos so he/she has to cough up anyway.

There actually very few solo songwriters. Most co-write but aren't very quick to admit it. Not everyone has the ability to write good songs. There are some amazing songwriters who aren't good vocalists. I think they should be acknowledged for what they at excel at.

this is true, but co-writing isnt the same as sitting in a room(as Pete Glennister once talked about) adding an odd word, or giving an idea for a song theme and a few lyrics.I have read umpteen articles where singers have admited after the fact that indeed they only added a word or two,

 

Some co-write when one writes lyrics and another the music - Coldplay do this I beleive

Elton John writes the music and his partner the lyrics?

Robbie Wiliams and Guy the other way round

where as some write a song in basic form, lyrics, melody, acoustic - and have co-writers to build up and add the effects to the song.

 

Darius does this on the whole, of course who knows how much the co-writers help in changing parts and lines,pointing out what would work better etc.

a lot of B sides of Darius' are him solo songwriter, acoustic demos- and amongst his best IMO.

 

And when he performs songs as he wrote them acoustically - I prefer them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't get what's supposed to be new about this? Artists and song writers have always stolen bits of music from each other?

 

Take a song like All By Myself (Eric Carmen / Celine Dion) ... a blatant rip off of Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto 2!! And even Rachmaninov and his peers stole phrases and bits and pieces from each other.

 

Musicians always have, and always will, borrow ideas from each other.

 

HOWEVER, this doesn't give artists the right to take credit for songs they haven't written ... i'm just pointing out that sometimes the songwriters aswell ain't holier than thou :P

Edited July 26, 200717 yr by Andrewy

Why do you get classified as a made-up artist if you are of the pop genre. I have written HUNDREDS of songs, and if I released them they would be pop.

this is true, but co-writing isnt the same as sitting in a room(as Pete Glennister once talked about)

 

Pete Glenister is a fantastic songwriter - he's been working on 'The Turn', the new Alison Moyet album... he's a longtime musical collaborator of hers.

 

As for Avril Lavigne - of course, she's nothing more than a pop act who the record company wanted to market as some 'teen sensation'. It's great that there are some people willing to stand up and say it like it really is.

 

Darius co-wrote a lot of the Dive In, and Live Twice tracks with Pete, - Pete(on Guitar, great guitarist) toured with Darius , while Deni Law(the other half of the misfits) did backing vocals, they are close friends, in fact I think they were a lot of support to Darius after PS.

It was during an interview about Darius I heard him talking about how some singers claim credits for not doing a thing, he was full of praise for Darius saying how he left them little to do! -which hardly suprises me, as Darius has a credit listing also for "pernickity Producer" on Dive In.

Edited July 27, 200717 yr by prettyinpink

Beyonce's one of the worsts for it, isnt she?

There actually very few solo songwriters. Most co-write but aren't very quick to admit it. Not everyone has the ability to write good songs. There are some amazing songwriters who aren't good vocalists.

 

and loads of 'amazing' co-songwriters who turn out to have been really really really $h!t popstars from the 70s, 80s and 90s :lol:

 

if you searching into the names that turn up again and again on these type of 'ring-up we need a songwriters type' you wonder how much were they themselves manipulated and marketed when they were topping the charts with the kind of $h!t they were putting out and why some of Natalie Imbruglia's records are not like a total disater areas of a megameh proportions :lol:

 

this is true, but co-writing isnt the same as sitting in a room(as Pete Glennister once talked about) adding an odd word, or giving an idea for a song theme and a few lyrics.I have read umpteen articles where singers have admited after the fact that indeed they only added a word or two,

 

Some co-write when one writes lyrics and another the music - Coldplay do this I beleive

Elton John writes the music and his partner the lyrics?

Robbie Wiliams and Guy the other way round

 

 

but with bands and established collaborators like Elton and Bernie Taupin there a bit more credibility than some artists that are marketed as some kinda upscale boho artiste but if you read the credits its like a car production line with them on a conveyer belt and at different parts on the line people like John Shanks, Francis White and Mikkel S. Eriksen all putting their stamp of 'components' on the project.

 

 

Beyonce's one of the worsts for it, isnt she?

 

 

yeah she's Un-be-liev-able!!!! :lol: :lol: