But nobody has the right to take our DNA unless we have been convicted of a crime, after all that's the case in Scotland

But nobody has the right to take our DNA unless we have been convicted of a crime, after all that's the case in Scotland

 

Spot on KG... But of course, the control freak "Nu Labor" Govt wants to try and change that... Innocent or guilty, you will be forced to comply.... <_<

 

Police State tactics in a supposedly "free" country.... May as well be living in China or Stalinist Russia.... <_< <_<

 

oh per-leeze! it can be checked and double checked, mistakes might well happen but can easily enough be sorted!

 

On Panorama they did do that and they were still after him even though it was obvious that a man who struggled to walk through a door couldn't climb through a window. What if he didn't have Parkinson's? Would they have still believed him?

Spot on KG... But of course, the control freak "Nu Labor" Govt wants to try and change that... Innocent or guilty, you will be forced to comply.... <_<

 

Police State tactics in a supposedly "free" country.... May as well be living in China or Stalinist Russia.... <_< <_<

 

 

sometimes reason leaves you posts m8 :). if this proposal goes ahead then civil liberties would be INCREASED, making society a safer place, wouldnt that INCREASE personal liberty and freedom?...

 

if this went ahead (and it should) it wouldnt be a CRIMINAL database, i wish some people here would understand that!

On Panorama they did do that and they were still after him even though it was obvious that a man who struggled to walk through a door couldn't climb through a window. What if he didn't have Parkinson's? Would they have still believed him?

 

true, but as technology increases (and panorama demonstrated that it has done) this will become much more accurate as instead of the current 18 points of identity, others will be added making 'matching' dna much harder to occur, eventually they will accurately be able to be 100%.

sometimes reason leaves you posts m8 :). if this proposal goes ahead then civil liberties would be INCREASED, making society a safer place, wouldnt that INCREASE personal liberty and freedom?...

 

if this went ahead (and it should) it wouldnt be a CRIMINAL database, i wish some people here would understand that!

 

 

How would civil liberties increase? This would not stop crime. How does DNA storage make society safer most crimes committed are not solved using DNA and can't be solved by DNA.

 

All DNA storage does is give the government another tool to use against the oridnary person

i think the problem is though that we dont live in a country where everybody IS a law abiding citizen, so the innocent must suffer for the greater good?...

 

example.... a young woman is raped, with a dna sample the perpetrator would be identified in hours, which must surely be better then no dna giving the perpetrator much longer to commit more acts.

 

I can see criminals just upping the ante on how they go about their criminal activity.

I can also see a lot more innocent people being wrongly accused by planted DNA by clever crims who know how to avoid getting caught.

 

Don't think it cant happen. It will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can see criminals just upping the ante on how they go about their criminal activity.

I can also see a lot more innocent people being wrongly accused by planted DNA by clever crims who know how to avoid getting caught.

 

Don't think it cant happen. It will.

 

they can plant evidence now!

 

nah.... if your dna was recorded on a national database youd be LESS inclined to commit a criminal activity cos you KNOW your chances of getting caught are greater.

 

 

How would civil liberties increase? This would not stop crime. How does DNA storage make society safer most crimes committed are not solved using DNA and can't be solved by DNA.

 

All DNA storage does is give the government another tool to use against the oridnary person

 

Spot on KG, this is my main objection to the whole idea....

 

CCTV, ID Cards, National DNA databases, and now over 700 various Govt bodies and quangos can now access YOURS and MY landline and mobile phone records without needing a court order.... Add this all up folks.... It all equals POLICE STATE..... -_-

 

On another approach entirely - I'm sure the likes of Hitler and Mengele woud've just LOVED the idea of having a National DNA database - deffo would've speeded up the "rounding-up and killing all the Non-Aryans" process... And who's to say at some point in the future something like that wouldn't happen again..... God fukkin' forbid the BNP ever got into power and had access to something like this.... <_<

Spot on KG, this is my main objection to the whole idea....

 

CCTV, ID Cards, National DNA databases, and now over 700 various Govt bodies and quangos can now access YOURS and MY landline and mobile phone records without needing a court order.... Add this all up folks.... It all equals POLICE STATE..... -_-

 

On another approach entirely - I'm sure the likes of Hitler and Mengele woud've just LOVED the idea of having a National DNA database - deffo would've speeded up the "rounding-up and killing all the Non-Aryans" process... And who's to say at some point in the future something like that wouldn't happen again..... God fukkin' forbid the BNP ever got into power and had access to something like this.... <_<

 

 

lol.. WAY ott... police state <_< they are the weakest they have EVER been!

 

the only people that need to worry about it are the criminals.

How would civil liberties increase? This would not stop crime. How does DNA storage make society safer most crimes committed are not solved using DNA and can't be solved by DNA.

 

All DNA storage does is give the government another tool to use against the oridnary person

 

oh per-leeze!

 

ill not even dignify this post with a reply.... think about it.

oh per-leeze!

 

ill not even dignify this post with a reply.... think about it.

 

 

As I said before I don't believe most crimes are solved with DNA or even produce DNA evidence, So the DNA database would not stop crime at all

This is like that film where we're on CCTV all day got cards saying who they are and what they are, next we'll be having chips in our heads!!! And fukking tracking devises strapped to our arse!!!

 

As much this could be of bennifit, it has downsides too. Even in the programme it said that more than two people can have the same DNA. People from that would get wrongly accused. I don't know what way I'd want it to be honest.

 

Is this just for the UK or everywhere? Cos what happends if someone comes to the UK for a holiday and kills 4 people then pisses off home, and someone living in the UK has the same DNA they would be wrongly accused cos they wouldn't to look at somone from abroad would they? :unsure:

As I said before I don't believe most crimes are solved with DNA or even produce DNA evidence, So the DNA database would not stop crime at all

 

oh lord...

 

IF there was a dna database then they COULD use dna more readily, they dont now because unless you are already a crim then your dna isnt on it!

 

secondly IF there was a dna database where the information was being used to prosecute criminal behaviour then maybe the perpetrators would think twice about committing the crime in the first place!

 

many criminals only undertake crimes because they believe they can get away with it, if their chances of getting away with it were notably (and 3 times the prosecution rate IS notably more) reduced then i suspect that alot of crimes just wouldnt be committed.

 

would YOU speed in a car down a road where you KNOW a speed camera WILL catch you?...

This is like that film where we're on CCTV all day got cards saying who they are and what they are, next we'll be having chips in our heads!!! And fukking tracking devises strapped to our arse!!!

 

As much this could be of bennifit, it has downsides too. Even in the programme it said that more than two people can have the same DNA. People from that would get wrongly accused. I don't know what way I'd want it to be honest.

 

Is this just for the UK or everywhere? Cos what happends if someone comes to the UK for a holiday and kills 4 people then pisses off home, and someone living in the UK has the same DNA they would be wrongly accused cos they wouldn't to look at somone from abroad would they? :unsure:

 

in most cases people couldnt be convicted on dna alone, so whilst it is possible to wrongly accuse someone its highly improbable that they would actually be sent down, besides, that already goes on under the current system. id argue that dna would make it more IMPROBABLE that people would be wrongly accused.

oh lord...

 

IF there was a dna database then they COULD use dna more readily, they dont now because unless you are already a crim then your dna isnt on it!

 

secondly IF there was a dna database where the information was being used to prosecute criminal behaviour then maybe the perpetrators would think twice about committing the crime in the first place!

 

many criminals only undertake crimes because they believe they can get away with it, if their chances of getting away with it were notably (and 3 times the prosecution rate IS notably more) reduced then i suspect that alot of crimes just wouldnt be committed.

 

would YOU speed in a car down a road where you KNOW a speed camera WILL catch you?...

 

 

You really are being naive on this subject you think DNA is some holy grail, you fail to realise that even if we had everybodies DNA on record, finding DNA would not tell us who committed a crime, only who was in the area. Other evidence would have to be available to accuse someone, and if it wasn't they would go free. That is why DNA is not the be all and end all.... and in fact the violation of our individual liberty involved in removing everyones DNA is more of an affront to our democracy and liberty, than any crime.....

 

It is also well know that the consequences of crime do not reduce crime, otherwise the USA would have a lower murder rate than Europe which it does not.

Edited October 3, 200717 yr by kindagood

You really are being naive on this subject you think DNA is some holy grail, you fail to realise that even if we had everybodies DNA on record, finding DNA would not tell us who committed a crime, only who was in the area. Other evidence would have to be available to accuse someone, and if it wasn't they would go free. That is why DNA is not the be all and end all.... and in fact the violation of our individual liberty involved in removing everyones DNA is more of an affront to our democracy and liberty, than any crime.....

 

It is also well know that the consequences of crime do not reduce crime, otherwise the USA would have a lower murder rate than Europe which it does not.

 

 

utter nonsense.

 

i never said its the be all and end all but its a very useful TOOL in helping solve crime, THREE times as many convictions are being made by using dna... that is HELL of an improvement to innocent citizens who are victims of crime... youd sooner that only a third of potential prosecutions are successful just because you are all conspiracied up about a swab being taken?... that makes sense ! <_< NOT.

 

if you think that taking a sample of dna is more of an afront then being three times more likely to be a victim of crime then you are seriously deluded. i know what id sooner have done to me.

 

AGAIN would you speed down a road where you knew there was an active speed camera?... it stands to reason that if you knew youd be caught most crimes wouldnt be committed.

AGAIN would you speed down a road where you knew there was an active speed camera?

 

I'm sure that in the U.K just like here in Australia, your government makes MILLIONS of dollars from speeding fines by people who aren't concerned by the

cameras or breaking the law.

I can't see crims giving much of a fig either. They are after all SOCIOPATHS who have no regard for laws and rules to begin with.

I doubt being on an DNA database will stop them but it will make them more manipulative and cunning.

 

The government wants the database for other reasons that has nothing to do with fighting crime.

Thats the line they use to sell it to you hoping you'll buy it.

 

With the entire nations DNA on database they could run all sorts of tests on it without anyones knowledge.

They could run tests on anyone applying for a government job for instance to predict life age expectancy to

sicknesses/diseases that you may not want your employers to know.

 

The room for abuse is phenomenal but first they have to get it past first base.

And they always use the fear/crime card to manipulate us into agreement.

 

The old chestnut of ....if you've got nothing to hide, then you won't mind.....is a violin that's been played wayyyy too many times. IMO

AGAIN would you speed down a road where you knew there was an active speed camera?

 

I'm sure that in the U.K just like here in Australia, your government makes MILLIONS of dollars from speeding fines by people who aren't concerned by the

cameras or breaking the law.

I can't see crims giving much of a fig either. They are after all SOCIOPATHS who have no regard for laws and rules to begin with.

I doubt being on an DNA database will stop them but it will make them more manipulative and cunning.

 

The government wants the database for other reasons that has nothing to do with fighting crime.

Thats the line they use to sell it to you hoping you'll buy it.

 

With the entire nations DNA on database they could run all sorts of tests on it without anyones knowledge.

They could run tests on anyone applying for a government job for instance to predict life age expectancy to

sicknesses/diseases that you may not want your employers to know.

 

The room for abuse is phenomenal but first they have to get it past first base.

And they always use the fear/crime card to manipulate us into agreement.

 

The old chestnut of ....if you've got nothing to hide, then you won't mind.....is a violin that's been played wayyyy too many times. IMO

 

 

there will always be hard core crims/speeders who will do what they will regardless, but honestly, no one wants a speeding fine! cameras catch out 'strangers' to the area, not locals so much.

 

true there is room for abuse, but nothing that legislation couldnt deal with. in all, its a positive step foreward.

utter nonsense.

 

i never said its the be all and end all but its a very useful TOOL in helping solve crime, THREE times as many convictions are being made by using dna... that is HELL of an improvement to innocent citizens who are victims of crime... youd sooner that only a third of potential prosecutions are successful just because you are all conspiracied up about a swab being taken?... that makes sense ! <_< NOT.

 

if you think that taking a sample of dna is more of an afront then being three times more likely to be a victim of crime then you are seriously deluded. i know what id sooner have done to me.

 

AGAIN would you speed down a road where you knew there was an active speed camera?... it stands to reason that if you knew youd be caught most crimes wouldnt be committed.

 

Well lets see I have been a victim of crime, and I still do not want this. I am not a conspiracist. I just don't believe government s have a right to completely know everything about us.

 

I also don't believe your assertation DNA solves three times as much crime, especially when rape the crime where most DNA evidence is used only brings about a 5% conviction rate of all those charged.

 

And many people speed down roads they know that a speed camera is on