Wrong, wrong, wrong again... The IRA were far from crude, their terror tactics were incredibly sophisticated, well thought out, planned and executed.... What's so "sophisticated" about flying a jet into a building....???? :rolleyes:

 

sophisticated for the time yes.... but by todays standards not.

 

flying a plane into a building 'not sophisticated'...oh, they were born with an inherant ability to FLY were they? it was a brilliantly executed act of terror, causing maximum damage/death far beyond anything the irish did. using modern technology now available terrorists are a far bigger threat now then ever before... you know that though.

Scott's right, if they was doing their job properly there would be no need for all this.

 

I don't think it's entirely possible to be honest, there's millions living in the UK as if they're going to keep track of every phone call and every text message. They will be opening our mail next.

Scott's right, if they was doing their job properly there would be no need for all this.

 

I don't think it's entirely possible to be honest, there's millions living in the UK as if they're going to keep track of every phone call and every text message. They will be opening our mail next.

 

thats the point though clare, it ISNT possible to track every call, i mean, who would want too?

sophisticated for the time yes.... but by todays standards not.

 

flying a plane into a building 'not sophisticated'...oh, they were born with an inherant ability to FLY were they? it was a brilliantly executed act of terror, causing maximum damage/death far beyond anything the irish did. using modern technology now available terrorists are a far bigger threat now then ever before... you know that though.

 

What about the bloke who got caught out when he wanted "flying" lessons, but not 'taking off' or 'landing' lessons... Not exactly dealing with a brain surgeon are we...?? Oh, and Richard Reed, the bloke who though he could set off PLASTIC EXPLOSIVE by LIGHTING IT WITH A MATCH!!!! :lol: :lol: And no, i dont believe that it's really that difficult to do what they did, the plane was already in the air... They just point the plane in the general direction of the two extremely LARGE buildings and bob's your uncle....

 

And as I have argued before, 9/11 was NOT the unexpected or unpreventable atrocity that the Yanks would have us believe... It was allowed to happen so the Neo-Con New World Order could basically call the shots in America after their schemes were being totally scuppered by the Clinton Administation for almost a decade... Bush Jr "winning" the 2000 election and then barely a year later, we get planes flying into skyscrapers... Coincidence...??

They will be opening our mail next.

 

Dont give them more ideas Clare.... :lol:

 

What about the bloke who got caught out when he wanted "flying" lessons, but not 'taking off' or 'landing' lessons... Not exactly dealing with a brain surgeon are we...?? Oh, and Richard Reed, the bloke who though he could set off PLASTIC EXPLOSIVE by LIGHTING IT WITH A MATCH!!!! :lol: :lol: And no, i dont believe that it's really that difficult to do what they did, the plane was already in the air... They just point the plane in the general direction of the two extremely LARGE buildings and bob's your uncle....

 

And as I have argued before, 9/11 was NOT the unexpected or unpreventable atrocity that the Yanks would have us believe... It was allowed to happen so the Neo-Con New World Order could basically call the shots in America after their schemes were being totally scuppered by the Clinton Administation for almost a decade... Bush Jr "winning" the 2000 election and then barely a year later, we get planes flying into skyscrapers... Coincidence...??

 

sounds too much like conspiracy theory to me m8... im not sold on that at all.

 

terrorism is being orchestrated via the internet, information is being distributed to all insundry who are willing enough to listen to the 'mad mullahs'. this has to be addressed.

terrorism is being orchestrated via the internet, information is being distributed to all insundry who are willing enough to listen to the 'mad mullahs'. this has to be addressed.

 

Pretty easy to monitor and/or block specific websites though mate.. The police and security forces already have powers to do this, they dont need to monitor ALL mobile phone records though....

 

And, who said anything about a "Conspiracy Theory"... Conspiracies imply that everything's being done in secret, behind closed doors, the New World Order is being blatantly OPEN about its activities - no more so than in Iraq and the "Patriot Act" which erodes fundamental rights that have existed for all Americans since the bloody Constitution was drawn up.... 9/11 provided the justification to go into Iraq and have a higher US military prescence in the ME, Clinton had always resisted these measures, so obviously Gore could not be allowed to win the 2000 election.. There's a website for an organisation called Project for a New American Century.. Look at its list of members mate, a LOT of familiar names from US politics (Florida governor Jeb Bush is a member....). The invasion of Iraq has been planned by these people since the mid-90s.... This is no "conspiracy theory" mate, this is policy

but how can it be possible to monitor specific websites without the ability to be monitoring ALL? how would a new site be found? and who tf is going to listen in on millions of mundane boring phone calls? just because they can doesnt mean they will, and tbh i dont give a flying fcuk.

but how can it be possible to monitor specific websites without the ability to be monitoring ALL? how would a new site be found? and who tf is going to listen in on millions of mundane boring phone calls? just because they can doesnt mean they will, and tbh i dont give a flying fcuk.

 

You should give a flying fukk though mate... The Govt is attempting to bypass the whole "rule of law" that has existed in this country for centuries just because it's inconvienient for the furthering of their police state ambitions, they have already eroded the act of Habeus Corpus by illegally interring "terrorist suspects" at Bellmarsh Prison and allowing US planes "rendering" suspects to stop over in British airports....

 

Add it all up - CCTV, ID Cards, DNA databases, illegal internment, and these unprecedented powers of surveillance.... Orwell was right on the money, he only got it wrong by a couple of decades....

 

Add it all up - CCTV, ID Cards, DNA databases, illegal internment, and these unprecedented powers of surveillance.... Orwell was right on the money, he only got it wrong by a couple of decades....

 

buit this is the 21st centuary now, where mass migration of people is commonplace, where terrorism exists for whatever reason, where information is readily available both to law biding citizens and criminals. more people, more freedom, more information, more oportunity.... more crime. the errosion of moral standards has to be addressed, what alternative is there? hope people behave? hope people dont defraud the benefits system? hope people dont commit street robbery/muggings, hope people dont kill, rape, abduct and molest?

 

i dont like it any more then joe bloggs, but as long as people dont behave then measures have to be taken to combat ever increasing crime in the 21st centuary.

buit this is the 21st centuary now, where mass migration of people is commonplace, where terrorism exists for whatever reason, where information is readily available both to law biding citizens and criminals. more people, more freedom, more information, more oportunity.... more crime. the errosion of moral standards has to be addressed, what alternative is there? hope people behave? hope people dont defraud the benefits system? hope people dont commit street robbery/muggings, hope people dont kill, rape, abduct and molest?

 

You talk as if none of this was happening before mass migration... If you'd lived in Victorian times, you'd actually be MORE likely to be the victim of a street crime than you are now, that is just a simple fact... I'm sorry mate, I dont see any of this as an excuse to erode the rights of the common man or woman, it is an EXCUSE dreamt up by an ever growing fascist state in order to control us, catalogue us, keep us down...

 

I believe much of what the American Militia movements say - "when the Government becomes the enemy of the people, then it's time for the people to fight back...". I think we're getting dangerously close to this point.... In a truly Democratic state, the people should NOT fear its Govt, rather the opposite, the Govt should fear the wrath of the people.... Look at France, people there are far more inclined to protest against the state than we are, we are utterly apathetic and all to willing to accept what lying politicians tell us.... The French population have managed to force its govt to perform a fair few U-Turns by protest and real People Power.....

 

victorian times maybe, but post war not! certainly the 50's and 60's were far safer times then they are now.

 

erode our rights? hows that work? surely if we can build a safer , crime free society that would be better? :lol:

 

nah... im not convinced that this or any mob could get away with abusing this power in the meantime the positive aspects of it would go on making it a better world.

 

the government CANT become the enemy of its people here in the uk, nor are we afraid of it. they will never have absolute power nor will it ever be a police state. i dont buy that argument at all you are scaremongering :P.

nah... thats nonsense.

the government CANT become the enemy of its people here in the uk, nor are we afraid of it. they will never have absolute power nor will it ever be a police state. i dont buy that argument

 

Try telling that nonsense to the Irish Catholics in NI during the 70s and 80s mate who pretty much WERE living under Police State conditions, "confessions" beaten and tortured out of suspects, internment without trial, curfews, no rights to put their side of the argument across in the news and the media, AND with an occupying armed force on their doorsteps.. A section of the BRITISH POPULATION living under what was near-as-dammit Martial fukkin' LAW!!!! THAT was all done in the name of a "war on terror" as well..... <_<

 

Let's not pretend that it could never happen again. It already is when you look at the Neo-Con propaganda and misinformation spread by Fox, CNN and Sky news..... <_< <_<

erode our rights? hows that work? surely if we can build a safer , crime free society that would be better? :lol:

 

 

How does it NOT erode our rights...? And safer for whom, exactly....? ANY democratic society builds its founding principles of law and governance on the presumption of innocence until PROVEN guilty.... With ID cards and DNA databases, phone tapping, etc, this will become the opposite - now I am expected to PROVE that I am innocent by willingly submitting to these things... That flies in the face of our rule of law that states the burden of proof is on the accuser as opposed to the accused... I should NOT have to prove to the sodding State that I have nothing to hide, it is up to them to prove that I do, and prove it in an open, transparent, LEGAL process with a trial of my peers.....

 

Once we start having to jump through hoops to prove our innocence, then we should become VERY afraid of the power of the State....

 

Honestly. All this stuff about DNA databases, governments spying on peoples calls and emails.

Next they'll be ripping your mail open and reading it before they send it on to you.

Seems like you guys are already in a jail without bars.

Who elected the Taliban in over there???

Try telling that nonsense to the Irish Catholics in NI during the 70s and 80s mate who pretty much WERE living under Police State conditions, "confessions" beaten and tortured out of suspects, internment without trial, curfews, no rights to put their side of the argument across in the news and the media, AND with an occupying armed force on their doorsteps.. A section of the BRITISH POPULATION living under what was near-as-dammit Martial fukkin' LAW!!!! THAT was all done in the name of a "war on terror" as well..... <_<

 

Let's not pretend that it could never happen again. It already is when you look at the Neo-Con propaganda and misinformation spread by Fox, CNN and Sky news..... <_< <_<

 

but that was 20 - 30 years ago and was a direct result of lawlessness. if anything this point is evidence for the need of tighter security!!! things aint the same these days and again i stress that the government can be kicked out! it aint a totalitarian state!

things aint the same these days and again i stress that the government can be kicked out! it aint a totalitarian state!

 

Oh please, there is VERY little difference between the main three parties these days, and let's be honest here, whether Labour or Tory, ALL govts since the post-war period have tended to follow pretty much the same course with a few minor cosmetic differences....

Oh please, there is VERY little difference between the main three parties these days, and let's be honest here, whether Labour or Tory, ALL govts since the post-war period have tended to follow pretty much the same course with a few minor cosmetic differences....

 

 

......... yep, and all have been removed from office by the people. i dont believe for one moment that britain will ever become a police state, tbh i think youre bonkers if you think it will! :P

......... yep, and all have been removed from office by the people.

 

You're missing the point, what's the purpose of voting in another lot of w/ankers when they're not that different from the w/ankers that are already there...? Most politicians dont serve the people, merely themselves.... I dont call that Democracy...

 

You're missing the point, what's the purpose of voting in another lot of w/ankers when they're not that different from the w/ankers that are already there...? Most politicians dont serve the people, merely themselves.... I dont call that Democracy...

 

im not missing the point, i just dont accept it as a realistic point! i mean, if 1 lot were kicked out because of them becoming to dominant and wanting to introduce a 'police state' then surely to god the opposition would steer miles away from that policy!!!! :lol: besides, you forget that you can only push the british public so far.... poll tax riots anyone?