October 4, 200717 yr im not missing the point, i just dont accept it as a realistic point! i mean, if 1 lot were kicked out because of them becoming to dominant and wanting to introduce a 'police state' then surely to god the opposition would steer miles away from that policy!!!! :lol: besides, you forget that you can only push the british public so far.... poll tax riots anyone? It's all being done by the back door though, they make it all sound reasonable and rationalise it, and say it's for the "greater good" and so on, so nobody really questions it... THAT is the whole problem, the fact that it does sound reasonable, but if you scratch below the surface of it, you begin to see what it really is.... You really have to look at these things in a joined up way mate.... The door is open to so much abuse of power by these measures.....
October 4, 200717 yr i dont buy it though scott, you talk as if theres a dark plan to subjugate the populace by the government with full backing of the opposition.... thats just plain daft.
October 4, 200717 yr i dont buy it though scott, you talk as if theres a dark plan to subjugate the populace by the government with full backing of the opposition.... The "Opposition" being TORIES mainly.... :lol: :lol: The Lib Dems see the inherent dangers of these plans, especially ID cards, but of course, they're no real threat to the status quo cos no one votes for them....
October 5, 200717 yr The "Opposition" being TORIES mainly.... :lol: :lol: The Lib Dems see the inherent dangers of these plans, especially ID cards, but of course, they're no real threat to the status quo cos no one votes for them.... but they WOULD do if they thought the lab/cons were gunning for a police state!.. :lol:
October 5, 200717 yr Too many citizens are too willing to give up our traditonal freedoms too easily, they forget their ancestors fought hard for these freedoms, we live in a world that is too easily manipulated, lets face it the state is appalling at protecting our indiviual liberties and freedoms, so why do so many people trust them when they introduce legislation that undermines our rights? Edited October 5, 200717 yr by kindagood
October 5, 200717 yr Too many citizens are too willing to give up our traditonal freedoms too easily, they forget their ancestors fought hard for these freedoms, we live in a world that is too easily manipulated, lets face it the state is appalling at protecting our indiviual liberties and freedoms, so why do so many people trust them when they introduce legislation that undermines our rights? EXACTLY... The State never gave us the freedoms that exist today, it was the people who had to demand them, and take to the streets to fight for them - The Chartists, The Suffragettes, The Tolpuddle Martyrs, The Labour movement... The people should NEVER willingly submit their freedoms, the State always comes up with some excuse why our natural human rights should be curtailed... If we surrender these rights then surely we are guilty of insulting these great historical freedom fighters....
October 5, 200717 yr but WHY is it removing our freedom? so what if they have the ability to listen in on our phone calls? 99.9999% are utter bollox anyway! youll still make the call,.. as i see it the freedoms that our forfathers fought for are being abused by criminals and are making life pretty unpleasant. no one wants a country where everything you do is being watched, but is there really any alternative in this world of free crime/terror?
October 5, 200717 yr the call,.. as i see it the freedoms that our forfathers fought for are being abused by criminals and are making life pretty unpleasant. So, that means you think that these people were wrong to fight for these rights???? Are you nuts...???? :blink: :blink: Just because a tiny minority of crims might be abusing those rights, that is absolutely no reason to curtail those rights for the vast majority of us who are law-abiding and responsible.... The majority should not have to suffer because of the actions of a minority... If you dont believe that, then you dont believe in freedom, liberty or democracy....
October 5, 200717 yr So, that means you think that these people were wrong to fight for these rights???? Are you nuts...???? :blink: :blink: Just because a tiny minority of crims might be abusing those rights, that is absolutely no reason to curtail those rights for the vast majority of us who are law-abiding and responsible.... The majority should not have to suffer because of the actions of a minority... If you dont believe that, then you dont believe in freedom, liberty or democracy.... lol.. i did NOT say that you little minx :P the truth is that freedom is being abused, you eith ignore it <_< or tackle it. its ok to ignore it if it doesnt directly affect you, but what about those who it does affect? i guess its all down to what is the lesser evil, freedom for criminals to abuse the system or surveilance to counter it.
October 5, 200717 yr the truth is that freedom is being abused, you eith ignore it <_< or tackle it. its ok to ignore it if it doesnt directly affect you, but what about those who it does affect? As a great man once said, "Better a hundred guilty men go free rather than one innocent person be punished".... And another said "let justice be served though the heavens fall".... No one said having a truly free, democratic society was perfect or easy, but it sure beats the alternative all to hell.... You have absolutely no evidence or proof whatsoever that these draconian measures will actually prevent a terrorist attack or criminal activity.... You're trying to operate on a cancer with a sledgehammer mate, wheres surely a scalpel (ie, focussed intelligence, evidence gathering, etc..) is the better tool... This "cure" is actually worse than the disease itself....
October 6, 200717 yr Even in totalitarian states where the people are watched and monitored crime still occurs. You cannot stop crime completely by surveillence, all that does is infringe everybody elses rights, criminals adapt to it and evade it
October 6, 200717 yr Even in totalitarian states where the people are watched and monitored crime still occurs. You cannot stop crime completely by surveillence, all that does is infringe everybody elses rights, criminals adapt to it and evade it yeah? really? how much crime is there?... lets try saudi arabia... 2% lol... its nonsense.... if surveillance (which wouldnt bother anyone except crims) reduced crime by a significant amount then its got to be worth considering! at NO expense to you, your chances of being blown up, robbed, identity fraud etc was almost completely removed... then youd be cutting off your nose to spite your face to vote against it.
October 7, 200717 yr The fact that the story was in the Daily Mail (the most pro-Conservative paper) in the UK, makes it about as credible & reliable as a Princess Diana conspiracy story in the Daily Express. :lol: Personally, I think it smacks of anti-Labour Government propaganda.
October 8, 200717 yr yeah? really? how much crime is there?... lets try saudi arabia... 2% lol... its nonsense.... if surveillance (which wouldnt bother anyone except crims) reduced crime by a significant amount then its got to be worth considering! at NO expense to you, your chances of being blown up, robbed, identity fraud etc was almost completely removed... then youd be cutting off your nose to spite your face to vote against it. So are you advocating that we turn this country into another Saudi Arabia? Sounds like you would support that idea.
October 8, 200717 yr So are you advocating that we turn this country into another Saudi Arabia? Sounds like you would support that idea. yeah... thats what i said <_<
October 8, 200717 yr yeah... thats what i said <_< Well, that's you just blown your whole argument there mate.... You honestly want us to emulate a country with one of the worst human rights records in the world.....??? Yeah, okay, they might have practially zero crime, but they dont even allow women to drive cars!!!!!! :lol: :lol: Or hey, maybe we could emulate China.... Not much crime there either, we could just shoot people in the back of he head who upset the State..... -_-
October 9, 200717 yr yeah... thats what i said <_< Better still lets turn the whole counrty into a modern day nazi state and get rid of undesirables, put the whole population in the dna database and put an implant in everybodies brain which tells the authorities where you are and what your thinking, after all if you're doing nothing wrong what have you got to hide. I suggest you be the first person to get the implant
October 9, 200717 yr Better still lets turn the whole counrty into a modern day nazi state and get rid of undesirables, put the whole population in the dna database and put an implant in everybodies brain which tells the authorities where you are and what your thinking, after all if you're doing nothing wrong what have you got to hide. I suggest you be the first person to get the implant now you are acting stupid....
October 9, 200717 yr Well, that's you just blown your whole argument there mate.... You honestly want us to emulate a country with one of the worst human rights records in the world.....??? Yeah, okay, they might have practially zero crime, but they dont even allow women to drive cars!!!!!! :lol: :lol: Or hey, maybe we could emulate China.... Not much crime there either, we could just shoot people in the back of he head who upset the State..... -_- sarcasm scott <_<
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