Top black officer urges more searches to tackle gun and knife crime

 

One of Britain's leading black police officers is to demand that more people from ethnic minorities must be stopped and searched if the fight against inner-city gun and knife crime is to succeed.

 

In a speech that will reignite one of the most contentious issues in British policing, the president of the National Black Police Association will dramatically call for an increase in the policing strategy in black communities. It marks a U-turn by the association, which has previously questioned the high proportion of black people stopped and searched by police.

 

Speaking at the group's annual conference, Keith Jarrett will ask Police Minister Tony McNulty and Sir Ian Blair, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, to consider escalating stop-and-searches among black people to reduce the number of shootings that have claimed the lives of another two teenagers in the past week.

 

The disputed use of stop-and-search has arguably caused more conflict than any other modern policing tactic and first achieved national notoriety during the Eighties, when it was blamed for precipitating inner-city race riots. Black people are four times more likely to be stopped than white people, according to Scotland Yard's figures, which continues to give rise to charges of police racism.

 

Whole article here http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/sto...2196028,00.html

 

Another example of the authorities abusing their exisiting powers

the police should search anyone they suspect of carrying guns... which appears to be a 'black' biased crime, therefore percentagewise they have to stop more blacks.

They just wont learn from their past mistakes will they...? Expect the inner cities to become ablaze with riots and tensions like in the 80s.... Yes, gun crime is a problem, but how about the police actually trying to stop this at the source....? ie, to stop the guns from getting into the country in the first place....? Or would that cause to much "inconvienience" to the business flow of the international fukkin' arms trade....? <_< <_<

They just wont learn from their past mistakes will they...? Expect the inner cities to become ablaze with riots and tensions like in the 80s.... Yes, gun crime is a problem, but how about the police actually trying to stop this at the source....? ie, to stop the guns from getting into the country in the first place....? Or would that cause to much "inconvienience" to the business flow of the international fukkin' arms trade....? <_< <_<

 

Agreed

 

I am old enough to remember Brixton and Broadwater Farm and Toxteth and Handsworth and so on and the same will happen again if blacks start to be victimised and harrassed by the police, many of whom are racist

 

Police should only stop someone if there is evidence of a crime

Police should only stop someone if there is evidence of a crime

 

Totally... It;s not even as if the Police aren't actually aware of the people to target... Every copper worth their salt knows damn fine who the gang members and trouble-makers are in any given area.. I'd be totally for a "zero tolerance" policing approach to viable suspects and known faces and their associates, because they're the ones organising the crime and causing all the grief... To cut out a cancer, you need a scalpel, NOT a sledgehammer. Police should be cultivating confidential informants, even if that means paying a "snitch" for any tip-offs....

 

Random stop and search does not achieve any kind of real results and only causes resentment amongst the community as a whole.. I would certainly not be willing to comply with a random stop and search unless the police had any kind of realistic or valid reason for stopping me.....

oh please!

 

still living in the past arnt we...

 

the 70's 80's are dead and gone, society isnt the same as it was then. there is far more accountability now then ever before, solicitors waiting in the wings ready to pounce on any discrepancy in the race laws. yes the police force was racist in the past... yes it still MIGHT be now in places, but they cannot express it anything like they could before.

 

its a BLACK officer calling for more stop n search, a black officer calling for more searches of black people is hardly racist!

 

you cant stop n search by quotas... you have to do it on likelyhood, probability, and like it or not black youth in many areas ARE percentage wise MORE likely to offend.

its a BLACK officer calling for more stop n search, a black officer calling for more searches of black people is hardly racist!

 

you cant stop n search by quotas... you have to do it on likelyhood, probability, and like it or not black youth in many areas ARE percentage wise MORE likely to offend.

 

 

Exactly, it is A Black senior officer that is calling for this(admitidly he used to condemn this before), but you can't argue with facts and at the moment black on black crime, especially gun crime is getting serious now in big cities. If it leads to a reduction in deaths of black teenagers then I can't see the problem.

its a BLACK officer calling for more stop n search, a black officer calling for more searches of black people is hardly racist!

 

you cant stop n search by quotas... you have to do it on likelyhood, probability, and like it or not black youth in many areas ARE percentage wise MORE likely to offend.

 

A Copper is a copper when alls said and done, regardless of race... And as I have said repeatedly, I very much distrust senior police officers, they all seem far too interested in playing politics and getting their names in the papers.....

 

I doubt anyone in the black community would look any more kindly on this just because a black copper says it.... Seems like a PR stunt to me anyway... The "man" wheels out their "token black guy" to make it sound more palatable.....

 

For a black or asian guy to rise that highly in the ranks of a proven institutionally racist organisation says to me he's just an ass-kisser....

 

As Ice Cube once said

 

But don't let it be a black and a white one

Cause they slam ya down to the street top

Black police showing out for the white cop

oh please!

 

still living in the past arnt we...

 

the 70's 80's are dead and gone, society isnt the same as it was then. there is far more accountability now then ever before, solicitors waiting in the wings ready to pounce on any discrepancy in the race laws. yes the police force was racist in the past... yes it still MIGHT be now in places, but they cannot express it anything like they could before.

 

The Stephen Lawrence case certainly was not in the 70s or 80s was it....? More accountability...?? Puh-leeeeeeze.... The scumbag coppers responsible for that one were NEVER held accountable, NEVER stood trial for perverting the course of justice or suspected corruption, NEVER lost their jobs due to gross incompetence and/or being on the fukkin' take (as I suspect they damn well were.....). No, these b/astards are still out there, with their jobs intact, still allowed to police our streets.....

 

And now we have this nonsense "inquiry" into the De Menezes killing, with coppers being able to retain anonymity, covering each others arses (they've certainly had long enough to get their stories straight haven't they...?), giving evidence that directly contradicts what the civilian eye-witnesses to the shooting said in the immediate aftermath... No prizes for guessing how this one will turn out..... <_<

 

Accountability my arse.....

oh please!

 

still living in the past arnt we...

 

Yeah, I'm just SOOOOO living in the past innit...? Whereas you're the one in favour of reintroducing antiquated, discredited "sus laws" from the 70s and 80s which did NOTHING positive to actually prevent crime, only in p***ing off a lot of people....

 

I'm in favour of intelligence led operations using surveillance, modern tech to target KNOWN INDIVIDUALS and their associates... I dont believe for a second that the police dont actually have a pretty good idea of who the gangsters and dealers are in any given area.... Target those people, target the people supplying the guns... A lot of the guns on the streets are actually replica firearms which have been modified to fire live ammo, and most of these weapons are being bought ONLINE.... Howabout the police actually start monitoring who is buying and who is selling these weapons through credit card purchases and then setting up surveillance on those individuals, howabout the Govt gets off its fukkin' arse and actually BANS the sale or purchase altogether of replica firearms... ?

 

Cut off the head of this problem and the body WILL DIE....... No need to inconvienience the general public. Target the CRIMS, not the majority of law abiding people....

 

The Stephen Lawrence case certainly was not in the 70s or 80s was it....? More accountability...?? Puh-leeeeeeze.... The scumbag coppers responsible for that one were NEVER held accountable, NEVER stood trial for perverting the course of justice or suspected corruption, NEVER lost their jobs due to gross incompetence and/or being on the fukkin' take (as I suspect they damn well were.....). No, these b/astards are still out there, with their jobs intact, still allowed to police our streets.....

 

And now we have this nonsense "inquiry" into the De Menezes killing, with coppers being able to retain anonymity, covering each others arses (they've certainly had long enough to get their stories straight haven't they...?), giving evidence that directly contradicts what the civilian eye-witnesses to the shooting said in the immediate aftermath... No prizes for guessing how this one will turn out..... <_<

 

Accountability my arse.....

 

that was in the early 90's... 92? man things have changed since then. the point is that black on black violence is on the rise and it needs to be stopped.

Yeah, I'm just SOOOOO living in the past innit...? Whereas you're the one in favour of reintroducing antiquated, discredited "sus laws" from the 70s and 80s which did NOTHING positive to actually prevent crime, only in p***ing off a lot of people....

 

I'm in favour of intelligence led operations using surveillance, modern tech to target KNOWN INDIVIDUALS and their associates... I dont believe for a second that the police dont actually have a pretty good idea of who the gangsters and dealers are in any given area.... Target those people, target the people supplying the guns... A lot of the guns on the streets are actually replica firearms which have been modified to fire live ammo, and most of these weapons are being bought ONLINE.... Howabout the police actually start monitoring who is buying and who is selling these weapons through credit card purchases and then setting up surveillance on those individuals, howabout the Govt gets off its fukkin' arse and actually BANS the sale or purchase altogether of replica firearms... ?

 

Cut off the head of this problem and the body WILL DIE....... No need to inconvienience the general public. Target the CRIMS, not the majority of law abiding people....

 

problem is that until the kid gets convicted then hes invisible to the police. young people are committing these crimes so do you think they should be left to get on with it until they are caught? i see nothing wrong with stopping and searching genuine suspects. the point is that unlike the 70's 80's the police have a REASON to search certain people.

that was in the early 90's... 92? man things have changed since then. the point is that black on black violence is on the rise and it needs to be stopped.

 

Still not the 70s though mate is it...? And I dont believe that things have really changed that much anyway, as several undercover BBC documentary investigations from the 00s has proven....

 

The gun crime can be stopped in the manner that I suggested... I mean, do you honestly believe that most of these guys actually go around tooled-up 24/7...?? They dont, they're much too clever for that, they store their weapons in secure places, only bringing them into play when needed. Only the real thickos carry a weapon on a day to day basis... Stop and search will not work on those cleverer individuals... And it's the cleverer individuals that are organising all the problems... The footsoldiers are a dime a dozen mate, they're not the real problem, take one off the streets, big deal, another will take their place tomorrow....

 

problem is that until the kid gets convicted then hes invisible to the police. young people are committing these crimes so do you think they should be left to get on with it until they are caught?

 

Not necessarily 'invisible' actually.... Known associates of criminals dont necessarily have criminal records themselves, but they can still come onto the police radar... If the police were actually clever, they could cultivate some of these associates into confidential informants, they could offer financial incentives; but they wont gain trust or intelligence by just randomly stopping and searching people for no particular reason...

 

 

Not necessarily 'invisible' actually.... Known associates of criminals dont necessarily have criminal records themselves, but they can still come onto the police radar... If the police were actually clever, they could cultivate some of these associates into confidential informants, they could offer financial incentives; but they wont gain trust or intelligence by just randomly stopping and searching people for no particular reason...

 

as i understand it thats basically whats proposed.

I broadly agree with Scott's points on this subject.

 

But in today's society, is it any coincidence that you have a growing culture of gun violence amongst this specific community, because of music stations happy to play the latest braggings of US Rappers who have long since stopped making relevant, vital social commentary records like Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, Ice Cube, KRSOne, etc. Could you imagine the outcry if say Justin Timberlake or Robbie Willams made the same type of record. It would get banned - pure & simple.

 

While in the a UK, a Caucasian contestant gets thrown off a Reality TV show after using a derogative towards Afro-Caribbean racist word (albeit not in an insulting context) thanks to the right-on coverage by Channel 4 & the likes of Trevor Phillips, (then) head of the Commission for Racial Equality going on TV telling the world how wrong it was, yet this same Afro-Caribbean contestant does not get thrown out for uttering a derogative towards Asians racist word (& all utterances & conversations about her using this word are edited out by the same Channel 4 show & the CRE were unavailable to comment on this subject - Funny that! :rolleyes:) when it was used in an insulting context.

 

.... and just this week:

 

CCTV shows tram attack on frail granddad

Monday, October 22, 2007

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10/pensionerattackPA_450x300.jpg

 

Shocking CCTV images showing the moment a 96-year-old man was savagely attacked on a tram were released by police today.

 

The great-grandfather who walks with two walking sticks was left blinded in one eye after the unprovoked attack in south London.

 

His attacker, Stephen Gordon, 44, was handed a three-year supervision order today at Croydon Crown Court, British Transport Police said.

 

Detective Sergeant Darren Stenning said the attack was an isolated incident, but the CCTV evidence helped secure a conviction.

 

He said: "This was a particularly nasty attack on an elderly man who was obviously very frail and was physically not able to defend himself.

 

"The blow to the victim's head caused serious injury, which has resulted in the victim losing sight in one eye.

 

"And unfortunately since this assault, the victim's health has deteriorated and he now resides in a care home."

 

The attack took place on a tram travelling between Sandilands and East Croydon on December 14 last year.

 

The court heard Gordon had tried to push past the victim, who was standing in the aisle leaning on his walking sticks.

 

As he squeezed under the pensioner's arms his hat was knocked off and he swore at the man and punched him in the face.

 

Police said two school children who were on the tram chased Gordon. They later gave evidence against him. Gordon was arrested by police the next month.

 

Gordon, of Croydon, was found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm following a trial that took place earlier this year.

 

So message is UK society sending out when it is OK (well at least not a jailable offence) for this man: http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10/stephengordonPA_175x125.jpg to blind a 96 year old World War Veteran? I think we all know what the outcry would have been if the skin colours of the attacker & victim were reversed.

 

To my eyes, apologetic bleeding hearted liberals are as big a problem in today's UK society as racist Policeman. These (one flippant, one very serious) two examples show that discrimination is prevalent in today's society. While it will never correct the wrong that was slavery, & generations worth of racism (go and look up on youtube the Spanish TV coverage of the Brazilian Grand Prix where one of the commentators is clearly heard making monkey noises to symbolize his delight at Lewis Hamilton gearbox malfunctioning, as an example to show that it is still common place in other nations societies) or what is still going on in many Southern States of the USA, but I'm a firm believer in Equality NOT Positive discrimination.

 

I broadly agree with Scott's points on this subject.

 

But in today's society, is it any coincidence that you have a growing culture of gun violence amongst this specific community, because of music stations happy to play the latest braggings of US Rappers who have long since stopped making relevant, vital social commentary records like Public Enemy, NWA, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, Ice Cube, KRSOne, etc. Could you imagine the outcry if say Justin Timberlake or Robbie Willams made the same type of record. It would get banned - pure & simple.

 

While in the a UK, a Caucasian contestant gets thrown off a Reality TV show after using a derogative towards Afro-Caribbean racist word (albeit not in an insulting context) thanks to the right-on coverage by Channel 4 & the likes of Trevor Phillips, (then) head of the Commission for Racial Equality going on TV telling the world how wrong it was, yet this same Afro-Caribbean contestant does not get thrown out for uttering a derogative towards Asians racist word (& all utterances & conversations about her using this word are edited out by the same Channel 4 show & the CRE were unavailable to comment on this subject - Funny that! :rolleyes:) when it was used in an insulting context.

 

.... and just this week:

 

CCTV shows tram attack on frail granddad

Monday, October 22, 2007

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10/pensionerattackPA_450x300.jpg

 

Shocking CCTV images showing the moment a 96-year-old man was savagely attacked on a tram were released by police today.

 

The great-grandfather who walks with two walking sticks was left blinded in one eye after the unprovoked attack in south London.

 

His attacker, Stephen Gordon, 44, was handed a three-year supervision order today at Croydon Crown Court, British Transport Police said.

 

Detective Sergeant Darren Stenning said the attack was an isolated incident, but the CCTV evidence helped secure a conviction.

 

He said: "This was a particularly nasty attack on an elderly man who was obviously very frail and was physically not able to defend himself.

 

"The blow to the victim's head caused serious injury, which has resulted in the victim losing sight in one eye.

 

"And unfortunately since this assault, the victim's health has deteriorated and he now resides in a care home."

 

The attack took place on a tram travelling between Sandilands and East Croydon on December 14 last year.

 

The court heard Gordon had tried to push past the victim, who was standing in the aisle leaning on his walking sticks.

 

As he squeezed under the pensioner's arms his hat was knocked off and he swore at the man and punched him in the face.

 

Police said two school children who were on the tram chased Gordon. They later gave evidence against him. Gordon was arrested by police the next month.

 

Gordon, of Croydon, was found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm following a trial that took place earlier this year.

 

So message is UK society sending out when it is OK (well at least not a jailable offence) for this man: http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10/stephengordonPA_175x125.jpg to blind a 96 year old World War Veteran? I think we all know what the outcry would have been if the skin colours of the attacker & victim were reversed.

 

To my eyes, apologetic bleeding hearted liberals are as big a problem in today's UK society as racist Policeman. These (one flippant, one very serious) two examples show that discrimination is prevalent in today's society. While it will never correct the wrong that was slavery, & generations worth of racism (go and look up on youtube the Spanish TV coverage of the Brazilian Grand Prix where one of the commentators is clearly heard making monkey noises to symbolize his delight at Lewis Hamilton gearbox malfunctioning, as an example to show that it is still common place in other nations societies) or what is still going on in many Southern States of the USA, but I'm a firm believer in Equality NOT Positive discrimination.

 

 

but the old man on the bus WAS black... asian or middle eastern anyway.

but the old man on the bus WAS black... asian or middle eastern anyway.

Exactly, as bad as it was, and I do agree that this thug should certainly have been sent down for it, it wasn't a hate crime, like the Stephen Lawrence murder was.. The bloke didn't call the old man an "effin' P@ki b/astard" (which certainly would, in my eyes, make it a Hate Crime....) or whatever, he just hit the bloke; it was merely random violence, NOT racially motivated.... And frankly this example seems to me to be a bit irrelevant anyway, police "stop and search" (which is what the thread is about) would certainly not have prevented this crime from happening, the bloke used his fists, not a concealed weapon....

 

The reason why this thug got probation...? Simple, not enough prison spaces.. And whose fault is that then...? <_< Bleeding heart liberals...? I dont think so... Remember a year or two back that letter the Home Office sent round to high court judges asking them to make "sensible" calls when deciding if someone should be sent to prison because of over-crowding....?

 

We send people down for not paying their ridiculous council tax charges or for not paying a TV licence, then we let thugs like this walk..... What a totally fukked society we live in....