October 23, 200717 yr Well take the NHS for example. Short-staffed as it is, more people in the UK = potentially more people in hospitals. And therefore a greater strain on the NHS. More people in the UK also means more people to work in hospitals, surely?
October 23, 200717 yr Author But where are all these extra people going to live, there would need to be a massive housebuilding program, and where would they build these homes, on every single field in the UK. There is only so many people can fit into a telephone box, and pretty soon the UK will feel like that as well. Who would pay for these houses, poor immigrants with no money? The taxpayer? Almost all the increase will be in England, not Wales not Scotland not N Ireland. But the south east and London will face the biggest squeeze. Scotland needs more people, but its population is at best static or declining as there is not enough jobs up here, so you can't just put all these people in the empty bits of the country and magically give them jobs, it doesn't work like that.
October 24, 200717 yr But has it really though? All this c**p about millions of immigrants draining everything out of our economy but Britain's population has been around 60m for as long as I can remember. So if they're all drained now surely they're no more drained that 15 years ago? After all, there's the same number of people here. It's not as if we actually have any more people to police, treat in hospitals, house, educate... If anything it just proves how c**p all of the services the Gov't provide are. it was well documented on the news this week... not only cambridge but all over. the problem is that population increase has been greater then funds to upgrade the services, they were here taking out of the economy before they were putting anything in.
October 24, 200717 yr Well take the NHS for example. Short-staffed as it is, more people in the UK = potentially more people in hospitals. And therefore a greater strain on the NHS. The NHS is fukked because of the changes the Tories brought in during the 80s and 90s... Enough money actually gets pumped into it to treat ALL patients who seek it, trouble is, the growing, unchecked admin and bureaucracy is what's draining the resources, which is why every time the Govt talks about "putting more money into the NHS" I just have to laugh tbh.. More money into the Bureaucracy more like, only about half of it will make it to the patients themselves.. Trust managers awarding themselves pay rises, bonuses, drafting in outside "financial consultants" who are costing a bloody fortune... Used to be that the doctors and the ward matrons ran the daily functions of NHS, now it's a bunch of beancounters and managers.... Well, I dont go and see a sodding accountant or a manager when I get hit by a car, know what I mean....? The trust system was the worst thing that could've happened to the NHS..... As for council housing shortages - well that's another legacy of Thatcherism... Sell off hundreds of thousands of council houses on the cheap and deny the councils access to the funds from the sales so they cant build any new ones.... Besides, the majority of immigrants that I know of certainly do NOT have council houses, they live in bedsits or rent rooms in the PRIVATE sector.... You should be objecting more to these feckless young females who get themselves pregnant at 14 and then start demanding their "rights" to a council house....
October 24, 200717 yr this is a suburb of derby not london!!!! no comparison... and ive already highlighted the stresses it puts upon the education system. and what tf is wrong with liking being ENGLISH? (or scotish :P) whats wrong with our history, 'merry olde englande'?. im proud of our heritage for all its faults. we will become a heritageless, soulless, bast*rd country like america... we have a proud tradition as one of the world leaders in the modern world and if we werent so bloody advanced we would not let the buggers in! The only reason our society is so "advanced" is because of our exploitation of the third world... Mind you, it aint just us that's done that, places like France, Belgium, Spain, etc are guilty of it as well. One African guy that I know said to me "In my country we have diamonds, gold, copper, but it all ends up here in Europe, my people have nothing"... Spot on if you ask me, and being Scottish and having your bloody ENGLISH TORY B/ASTARD GOVERNMENT come up and nick all our North sea oil and gas wealth and spirit it away to give tax breaks to rich scum in the south east of England, an attitude I can definitely relate to.... The facts are obvious to me, we take from the third world to enjoy our cushy existences, and now we b**ch about people who might want to actually see a little bit of it back.... Our Govts and Corporations take FAR more from these people (and not just in monetary terms, basic dignity is also something we have robbed them of...) than they take from us, simple as... Places like Sierra Leone, The Ivory Coast, Nigeria etc would be as rich as the OPEC nations if their Govts got organised... But of course, that wont happen because of the corruption that's cultivated and funded by western corporations like Shell, De Beers, Exxon, etc. It aint in their interests to have organised labour movements, or indeed strong, democratic governments and institutions (too many rules, regs getting in the way of p***ing on the poor <_< )... People like you living in the 'burbs just have no clue of what's really going on out there mate, well i actually talk to these people, and I see the truth.... And frankly, I would argue that thanks to the decades of Thatcherism and Blairism, we are a soulless b/astard country like America, seeing as how we're continually up America's arse....
October 24, 200717 yr The only reason our society is so "advanced" is because of our exploitation of the third world... Mind you, it aint just us that's done that, places like France, Belgium, Spain, etc are guilty of it as well. One African guy that I know said to me "In my country we have diamonds, gold, copper, but it all ends up here in Europe, my people have nothing"... Spot on if you ask me, and being Scottish and having your bloody ENGLISH TORY B/ASTARD GOVERNMENT come up and nick all our North sea oil and gas wealth and spirit it away to give tax breaks to rich scum in the south east of England, an attitude I can definitely relate to.... The facts are obvious to me, we take from the third world to enjoy our cushy existences, and now we b**ch about people who might want to actually see a little bit of it back.... Our Govts and Corporations take FAR more from these people (and not just in monetary terms, basic dignity is also something we have robbed them of...) than they take from us, simple as... Places like Sierra Leone, The Ivory Coast, Nigeria etc would be as rich as the OPEC nations if their Govts got organised... But of course, that wont happen because of the corruption that's cultivated and funded by western corporations like Shell, De Beers, Exxon, etc. It aint in their interests to have organised labour movements, or indeed strong, democratic governments and institutions (too many rules, regs getting in the way of p***ing on the poor <_< )... People like you living in the 'burbs just have no clue of what's really going on out there mate, well i actually talk to these people, and I see the truth.... And frankly, I would argue that thanks to the decades of Thatcherism and Blairism, we are a soulless b/astard country like America, seeing as how we're continually up America's arse.... since when did scotland own the north sea? besides a good proportion of the oil/gas is in english waters.... and it was discovered by englishmen :P but i generally concur.
October 24, 200717 yr since when did scotland own the north sea? besides a good proportion of the oil/gas is in english waters.... and it was discovered by englishmen :P but i generally concur. Erm, since when was the coast of Aberdeen in England mate....? :lol: And the facts are, most of the revenue from oil and gas should have been used to benefit the Scottish people, not to line Westminster's coffers and pay for tax breaks....
October 24, 200717 yr More people in the UK also means more people to work in hospitals, surely? Well in theory, yes, you would think. But how many 'migrants' come to the UK to work as a professional?
October 24, 200717 yr More people in the UK also means more people to work in hospitals, surely? it takes time to adjust to the number of people in the area. i think that the scale of migration has caught out the services from housing to hospitals, this is why they are under a strain.
October 25, 200717 yr Immigration isn't the only cause of the increase in population and not necessarily the most worrying. We are all living significantly longer, and so the proportion of elderly people in the population is growing, a significant issue for pensions / NHS etc. We don't have a particularly good ethos of our care for our elderly relatives as this is likely to be an increasing burden on the state. This coupled with the increasing birth rate ...... decreasing rates of infant mortality and easy availabilty of benefits making breeding a national sport for the work shy. but is easy to blame Johnny Foreigner - how very English!
October 25, 200717 yr Immigration isn't the only cause of the increase in population and not necessarily the most worrying. We are all living significantly longer, and so the proportion of elderly people in the population is growing, a significant issue for pensions / NHS etc. We don't have a particularly good ethos of our care for our elderly relatives as this is likely to be an increasing burden on the state. This coupled with the increasing birth rate ...... decreasing rates of infant mortality and easy availabilty of benefits making breeding a national sport for the work shy. but is easy to blame Johnny Foreigner - how very English! id have thought that youve highlighted a very good reason to curb immigration .... and yes we can blame johnny foreigner in this instance as the strain on services in some ares is directly because of the scale of sudden immigration.
October 25, 200717 yr As has already been said the NHS is not over stretched and if it is it is not because of immigrants it is because of too many managers and administrators and not enough nurses and doctors, more money is being put into the NHS than ever before but it is being lost in a giant management black hole where the emphasis is on government performance targets and league tables instead of patient care, if the money going into the NHS was used properly there would be no crisis, to blame it on foreigners is illogical nonsense straight out of a Nick Griffin dinner party, the NHS has never been better funded, instead of blaming foreigners blame managers ! And being English/British is an outdated concept we are Europeans now, the Treaty Of Rome allows for complete free movement of labour and travel within the EU so likewise while Poles and Bulgarians are taking advantage of better working conditions and pay here so anyone from England is entitled to go out anywhere in Europe and work freely, thats just part of being European, we are doing well as a nation in business because of the Euro instead of loads of seperate currencies, we are saving a lot of money on holiday because of one single currency so we have to accept the negatives with the positives To blame "foreigners" on the NHS probs (the NHS has been f***ed for 30 years through management) is absurd
October 25, 200717 yr and yes we can blame johnny foreigner in this instance as the strain on services in some ares is directly because of the scale of sudden immigration. You're just not listening to the facts are you mate...? The NHS is fukked because of incompetent management and the NHS "Trusts" completely and utterly mismanaging funds, money is disappearing down huge bureaucratic loopholes which have NOTHING to do with immigration.. Housing is fukked because the b/astard tories sold off a huge proportion of council housing stock and refused to allow councils to build new ones (Social Housing???? sounds a bit too much like "Social-ism" dunnit???? <_< ), again NOTHING to do with immigration... The schools are fukked because of obsessions with league tables, the false illusion of "parental choice" and the fact that not all state schools are being equally funded, again NOTHING to do with immigration.... In all cases here public services have suffered because of Govt dogma (whether Tory or Nu Labor....Oh, mind you, it's practically the same bloody thing innit....?), uncontrolled bureucracy and managerial incompetence... NOTHING TO DO WITH IMMIGRATION..... Explain to me how the likes of France and Germany dont seem to be suffering anything like the problems we do with public services, and both countries have huge ethnic and immigrant populations also, a fact the right wing press and the BNP seem to forget about.... What also is being forgotten is the fact that the main reason why these extra billions are available to the NHS in the first place is more than likely because of tax revenue from migrant labour....
October 25, 200717 yr You're just not listening to the facts are you mate...? The NHS is fukked because of incompetent management and the NHS "Trusts" completely and utterly mismanaging funds, money is disappearing down huge bureaucratic loopholes which have NOTHING to do with immigration.. Housing is fukked because the b/astard tories sold off a huge proportion of council housing stock and refused to allow councils to build new ones (Social Housing???? sounds a bit too much like "Social-ism" dunnit???? <_< ), again NOTHING to do with immigration... The schools are fukked because of obsessions with league tables, the false illusion of "parental choice" and the fact that not all state schools are being equally funded, again NOTHING to do with immigration.... In all cases here public services have suffered because of Govt dogma (whether Tory or Nu Labor....Oh, mind you, it's practically the same bloody thing innit....?), uncontrolled bureucracy and managerial incompetence... NOTHING TO DO WITH IMMIGRATION..... Explain to me how the likes of France and Germany dont seem to be suffering anything like the problems we do with public services, and both countries have huge ethnic and immigrant populations also, a fact the right wing press and the BNP seem to forget about.... What also is being forgotten is the fact that the main reason why these extra billions are available to the NHS in the first place is more than likely because of tax revenue from migrant labour.... its YOU that isnt listening to the facts.. whilst i dont doubt that mis-management has caused trouble in the nhs, it is NOT the sole reason why certain districts are struggling to cope. immigration IS causing a strain on the resources the nhs has. if say cambridge has been allocated so much money to deal with an estimated number of illnesses and guess what, theres MORE people to treat then what was budgited for... of COURSE immigration has had an impact! this can be clearly seen as its the health services in areas where the immigrant population has boomed in recent years is at 'breaking point' whereas areas where theres not been a significant immigration explosion the hospitals are copeing well! blame thatcher for the housing crisis?... c'mon man, that was over 20 years ago and has little if any impact upon todays housing problems. do you think things would be any different if they hadnt have been sold off?... (dont forget i was against it). theres been massive building programmes now in both the public and private sector for c12 years. it aint rocket science... if theres a sudden and greater influx of immigrants then expected of COURSE theres going to be problems with housing/health/schools. or do you believe that by some strange co-incidence the immigrants only settled where the services were going to fail? :lol: we cant continue having an open door policy, our island simply cannot cope... unlike france .. which is 4? 5? times bigger then the uk and has a smaller population! (i would definately support some birth control policy too, especially amongst skanky chav bints)
October 25, 200717 yr its YOU that isnt listening to the facts.. whilst i dont doubt that mis-management has caused trouble in the nhs, it is NOT the sole reason why certain districts are struggling to cope. immigration IS causing a strain on the resources the nhs has. if say cambridge has been allocated so much money to deal with an estimated number of illnesses and guess what, theres MORE people to treat then what was budgited for... of COURSE immigration has had an impact! So, what you gonna do then, deny treatment for a tax-paying immigrant while at the same time bend over backwards for a waster who's never contributed a single penny into the system??? Fukk off, that's totally wrong and you know it.... I'll say again, if anyone should be chucked out the country it's those fukkin' chav wasters who contribute nothing other than spitting out brats every nine months that we have to pay for..... I've a damn sight more tolerance for a hard working immigrant and their family than I do a bunch of fukkin' wasters and their feral offspring - BOTTOM LINE..... Get rid of chavs, NOT the hard working migrants.....
October 25, 200717 yr So, what you gonna do then, deny treatment for a tax-paying immigrant while at the same time bend over backwards for a waster who's never contributed a single penny into the system??? Fukk off, that's totally wrong and you know it.... I'll say again, if anyone should be chucked out the country it's those fukkin' chav wasters who contribute nothing other than spitting out brats every nine months that we have to pay for..... I've a damn sight more tolerance for a hard working immigrant and their family than I do a bunch of fukkin' wasters and their feral offspring - BOTTOM LINE..... Get rid of chavs, NOT the hard working migrants..... but thats not the argument! the point is that the migrants HAVE caused stresses upon the services, not 'who deserves it'... (i agree with you on that by the way)
October 25, 200717 yr blame thatcher for the housing crisis?... c'mon man, that was over 20 years ago and has little if any impact upon todays housing problems. do you think things would be any different if they hadnt have been sold off?... Well, yes I do actually.. There'd be hundreds of thousands MORE council houses for a start mate... And building programmes were curtailed, there's no question of that... The whole "opting out" of council ownership in favour of private landlords and housing associations also had an impact..... The fact that council renting market contracted while private renting market expanded can be no coincidence....
October 25, 200717 yr Well, yes I do actually.. There'd be hundreds of thousands MORE council houses for a start mate... And building programmes were curtailed, there's no question of that... The whole "opting out" of council ownership in favour of private landlords and housing associations also had an impact..... The fact that council renting market contracted while private renting market expanded can be no coincidence.... ........ but even if she hadnt sold them, they wouldnt be empty waiting for igor! :lol: and house building was curtailed until about 10-12 years ago, its been booming ever since.
October 25, 200717 yr I have no comment on the issue, but I did want to say hello to Clare! :D :heart: Ello, is it Alysa? :unsure: :wub: Edited October 25, 200717 yr by Daylight Dancer
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