HEATED discussion. GOOD sh*t, here.

Oh wow, Thanks for that.

 

Its a very very interesting read.

 

the great thing with the Smoking Gun documents is that they're sworn legal statements and accounts by police officers whose interests are simply to uphold the law, not to grab any monetary gain.

 

There's heaps of these documents on Smoking Gun, these are just a small few - do a search for Michael Jackson on the site - you'll be appalled, I promise you.

Is the Independent a tabloid, sunshine? Please don't even attempt to patronise me - you're really utterly, seriously onto a loser on that one - I promise you. Sunshine.

Sir Jack please take notice of the above, Russ doesn't get patronised. :(

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No really.

Never. :lol:

 

As for this topic, I love this topic. I adore some decent heated debate. :D Make sure it's kept clean though, there's no need for anyone to patronise. ;) Russ for once it wasn't you that was accused of it. :o :rofl: I'm sure this topic is in hand though. :heehee:

oi, you watch it Miss Scary :o ;)

 

Or I'll be arranging Mr Jackson to come round and do some babysitting for you :P

Oh for f***s Sake!!!!!

 

Dont beleive the garbage, Everything in that program was UNTRUE!

 

Youd be stupid to beleive such an amatrue Program, that talked to the most distant contacts who are out for revenge!!

 

Really changed your opinion Josh? Really? BS!

 

Your a fool to beleive that!

 

Its just yet another Program, having yet another stab at an innocent man, People will not learn to leave him alone. This documentary can join the other 1000 Pertehtic attempts.

 

DONT BELIEVE THE RUBBISH!

 

oh god how i HATE blind fans....

 

the programme was FACTUAL, otherwise where are the lawsuits?

 

innocent?..like oj simpson?... fool... money talks

 

if you or me had slept with little boys we would be either in prison/hospital/coffin.... but because you like his music hes INNOCENT...

If ANY cchild had a relationship with a total stranger as intense and unusual as Michael Jackson did with Jordy Chandler, OF COURSE you would think it odd. It has NOTHING to do with one of them being famous but EVERYTHING to do with the fact that adults simply CANNOT have such close 'relations' with a minor.

yes you are. Totally and utterly.

No it wasn't - the case fell apart in the second instance - he was never declared innocent or guilty.

 

And in the first instance, of course, he paid off his accuser. TWENTY ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

I'm all for individuality and everyone following different paths. However, don't you think sleeping in the same bed as a young non-relative person of the same sex is stretching it slightly? Taking naked baths with them (as Jackson admitted they did)? Keeping semi-pornographic photographs of the children he befriended? Letting cancer-ridden children get drunk in his company?

 

Let me clarify this with you - are you saying that over 125 witnesses, most of whom gave SWORN STATEMENTS are lying - but Michael Jackson is telling the truth?

 

Really?

 

spot on russ! :)

the whole programme was rubbish, based on lies rumors and no evidence. i cant even be bothered to go into the amount of rubbish in the programme as my good fellow michael jackson fan friend sir.jack.croft has explained quite clearly how all those boys and their parents wanted was money

all those boys and their parents wanted was money

 

even Jordy Chandler's (millionaire) parents? :D

 

Do you believe all kids who are abused only tell on their abuser for money?

 

I can assure you, people have been jailed with far, far less evidence than there is against Jackson.

El Pres, you must have a right old cynical view of the world if you think young kids would stand up in court and give evidence against a superstar like Michael Jackson 'just for money'. :lol: If he really is innocent, and we are basing our assessments on tabloid rubbish, why did the court case take months and months to end? Surely it would've been very simple to clear Michael if he really is such a victim?

El Pres, you must have a right old cynical view of the world if you think young kids would stand up in court and give evidence against a superstar like Michael Jackson 'just for money'. :lol: If he really is innocent, and we are basing our assessments on tabloid rubbish, why did the court case take months and months to end? Surely it would've been very simple to clear Michael if he really is such a victim?

 

exactly, Jark.

 

I'm sure in the 2nd case, the mother was undoubtedly a money-grabbing fraudster.... and she LOST that case. Jackson didn't WIN it. Her shocking few days in the witness box ensured the family could never win that case.

 

There are numerous other boys who have come forward (and been paid off, too). Were all these simply after Jackson's money?

 

Re. Jackson's 'billions' - With Jackson's string of unpaid debts - don't you think it a bit odd that a supposed 'billionaire' would let these bills slip? He has a huge family and a network of staff - surely he'd be able to pay these people he owes cash to, even if he himself 'forgot' the debts?

 

For the record, I think, from 1979 to 1984, Jackson was the world's greatest entertainer. Possibly greatest ever. I saw him live on the Bad tour - and he was shocking. AWFUL. The 'magic' had evaporated even back then. But in his day, he was a magnificent, unparallelled entertainer.

 

 

'Blind' fans make me smile, actually. They try to detract from the severity of the actual facts by throwing accusations of Jackson being 'hated' and 'victimised'. For these fans to stand up for him and simply say he's being accused of these crimes because he's a victim of a slur campaign by disgruntled ex-employees and avid journalists is nothing short of disgusting. He is being accused of these crimes because there are kids who have been damaged for life who are making sworn testimonies against him - some have recieved cash - many haven't.

 

The Jordy Chandler case will never go away. The evidence, as shown on the Smoking Gun website, is too severe, too detailed and too incriminating to ever go away. The fact that, to avoid a court case that would almost certainly have proved Jacksons' guilt, the accused paid the victim $21million..... you can run from justice, you can pay off your accusers.

 

But the cold hard facts of those statements, from many, many sources, from friends, acquaintances, employees, even family... they will never go away.

 

Like OJ and Tyson before him, Michael Jackson has proven that money, in America, can buy you anything - even freedom after committing terrible, gut-wrenching crimes against children.

Edited October 25, 200717 yr by russt68

exactly, Jark.

 

I'm sure in the 2nd case, the mother was undoubtedly a money-grabbing fraudster.... and she LOST that case. Jackson didn't WIN it. Her shocking few days in the witness box ensured the family could never win that case.

 

There are numerous other boys who have come forward (and been paid off, too). Were all these simply after Jackson's money?

 

Re. Jackson's 'billions' - With Jackson's string of unpaid debts - don't you think it a bit odd that a supposed 'billionaire' would let these bills slip? He has a huge family and a network of staff - surely he'd be able to pay these people he owes cash to, even if he himself 'forgot' the debts?

 

For the record, I think, from 1979 to 1984, Jackson was the world's greatest entertainer. Possibly greatest ever. I saw him live on the Bad tour - and he was shocking. AWFUL. The 'magic' had evaporated even back then. But in his day, he was a magnificent, unparallelled entertainer.

'Blind' fans make me smile, actually. They try to detract from the severity of the actual facts by throwing accusations of Jackson being 'hated' and 'victimised'. For these fans to stand up for him and simply say he's being accused of these crimes because he's a victim of a slur campaign by disgruntled ex-employees and avid journalists is nothing short of disgusting. He is being accused of these crimes because there are kids who have been damaged for life who are making sworn testimonies against him - some have recieved cash - many haven't.

 

The Jordy Chandler case will never go away. The evidence, as shown on the Smoking Gun website, is too severe, too detailed and too incriminating to ever go away. The fact that, to avoid a court case that would almost certainly have proved Jacksons' guilt, the accused paid the victim $21million..... you can run from justice, you can pay off your accusers.

 

But the cold hard facts of those statements, from many, many sources, from friends, acquaintances, employees, even family... they will never go away.

 

Like OJ and Tyson before him, Michael Jackson has proven that money, in America, can buy you anything - even freedom after committing terrible, gut-wrenching crimes against children.

 

lol.. i was looking to put my tuppence worth in, but this post by russ says it all.

the whole programme was rubbish, based on lies rumors and no evidence. i cant even be bothered to go into the amount of rubbish in the programme as my good fellow michael jackson fan friend sir.jack.croft has explained quite clearly how all those boys and their parents wanted was money

 

m8... if it was 'lies' then the makers would be in court..

 

'no evidence'... then how did that little kid know what jackos genitalia looked like?

 

no one, even jacko, disputes that he shared a bed on many occassions with little boys... do you think thats acceptable?..

 

if i (jackos generation) did that, id be hung drawn and quartered! id be in prison (after a beating) faster then you could go *ow (a jacko noise)*.... what makes him immune?

Right, let me start again here. I think last night may have been in the heat of the moment. I apolagise to Russt for my bitchy and patronizing comment :)

 

Only because I know its nothing but lies. Do you know when you feel about something that strongly, and when you absolutly know hes done nothing wrong. I just know.

 

Anyway, Michael Jackson was aquitted In a court of law on ALL 10 counts!

 

Right Im gonna give it a go of just explaining things.

 

The Program seemed to center itself around the fact that Michael "slept with young boys" "had a sexual relationship with young boys" etc.

 

Well The only good source that Program had was Bob Jones, Michaels one time manager, who was fired, he beleives for unfair reasons, and had to sue to get his vacation pay, who Lives in Downtown Los Angeles in a very small house. This would seem like a reason to me, to get back at Michael a little.

 

Michael has a love for children, I think everybody knows that, and the way he expresses it, may be strange to some people, But its what he knows, and only what he knows. And being the vunerable man he is, people have taken advantage of that. He has made mistakes no doubt. But I dont think Michael is capable of anything like that.

 

Take a look at this video:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGcQktTov00 (Guy On the tape is Evan Chandler)

 

I think we have to agree that the media plays a large part in these types of situations.

 

Its hard to explain, and I have no idea how to put it into words.

 

So watch this special on Michaels Aqquital: It may answer some questions :)

 

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZ-Ts32vdo

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YJfwa9-EVQ

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibWtrTsgPjM

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHni4ur1An4

Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2ct1_zxGtk

 

There are some court transcripts, and I think youll find it intresting to the other side of the arguement :)

 

If your going to reply, please read the whole post and watch all the videos :)

 

 

Only because I know its nothing but lies.

 

sorry, but WHAT lies?... the programme dealt with factual evidence. if that programme was so wrong, broadcasting untruths, lies, then they would already being issued with a law suit.

 

please take your blinkers off... you might like his music, but it doesnt make him 'innocent'.

 

it is a fact that as an adult male he slept in the same bed as numerous pre-pubescent boys, do you think thats the actions of a normal, well balanced adult?...

 

he wasnt proven innocent, he just wasnt proven guilty.

sorry, but WHAT lies?... the programme dealt with factual evidence. if that programme was so wrong, broadcasting untruths, lies, then they would already being issued with a law suit.

 

please take your blinkers off... you might like his music, but it doesnt make him 'innocent'.

 

it is a fact that as an adult male he slept in the same bed as numerous pre-pubescent boys, do you think thats the actions of a normal, well balanced adult?...

 

he wasnt proven innocent, he just wasnt proven guilty.

 

He was Proven Innocent, If he wasnt Proven Innocent, the verdict would have been Guilty, and It wasng it was Innocent.

 

Well, have a trot over to the Ofcom website and look at the amount of complaints the program got, they got numourous things wrong such as dates of events. they said the allegatiosns started in 1992, untrue, started in 1993, they said he was at the white house getting an award in 1987, not true it was 1984.

 

When I have chance to watch it again, I will disect it for you if you wish, and correct the program :)

 

He was Proven Innocent, If he wasnt Proven Innocent, the verdict would have been Guilty, and It wasng it was Innocent.

 

Well, have a trot over to the Ofcom website and look at the amount of complaints the program got, they got numourous things wrong such as dates of events. they said the allegatiosns started in 1992, untrue, started in 1993, they said he was at the white house getting an award in 1987, not true it was 1984.

 

When I have chance to watch it again, I will disect it for you if you wish, and correct the program :)

 

he wasnt found not guilty, thats not 'proven innocent' it means they couldnt convict him. in america money talks, they are reluctant to convict 'stars', like oj simpson who got off with murder.

 

if he isnt guilty of sexual misconduct then how did that kid know what jackos genetalia look like? explain the porno mags, and the undisputed use of 'adult' language to kids?..

 

again (no one seems to be able to level this...i wonder why? lol) do you think its acceptable for a middle aged man to sleep with little kids who are no relation? ESPECIALLY after previous allegations of sexual misconduct?

 

of course ofcom has complaints... from the starstruck, blind, fans who will not accept the facts.

 

IF the makers of this go to court and get convicted of broadcasting lies then ill listen, otherwise you must accept that the programme broadcasted THE TRUTH.

 

the incorrect dates are irrelevant, 92, 93.. so what?

 

take your head out of the sand and accept that he is guilty of innappropriate misconduct towards kids, if that was me doing that would you still believe in my innocence?

hes not guilty of anything, hes innocent.

 

people are just jealous of him

people are just jealous of him

Well, I admit it - a crumbling nose, crippling debts, and suspected paedophile status are top of my wish list right now.

hes not guilty of anything, hes innocent.

 

people are just jealous of him

Sometimes you make me wonder if you're just being a "fan" to take the piss. :mellow:

Sometimes you make me wonder if you're just being a "fan" to take the piss. :mellow:

 

i happen to be very big fan of hes.

 

im gonna have to report your post, its very upsetting and disturbing