The UK has the highest amount of CCTV coverage in the developed world, is this an abuse of our freedoms or a protection of our rights from criminals?

 

Do you like the fact that as you walk down the street the authorities could be tracking your every move? Or do you find the whole thing Orwellian?

 

 

well at the moment the use of cctv has done nothing but good, tracking criminals and victims and identifying them. as long as this technology isnt being abused, and atm theres no evidence that it has, then i see no problem.

I have no problem with CCTV ^_^ It does a good job on tracking criminals ect..

I don't mind being watched within reason as long as it does what it's meant to do... I think there are many benefits to having CCTV and very little disadvantages. Surely you'd only object to being watched if you're going to do something you shouldn't?

If you have nothing to hide there is nothing to worry about

 

CCTV is essential tool in dealing with chavs and vandals etc

If you have nothing to hide there is nothing to worry about

 

CCTV is essential tool in dealing with chavs and vandals etc

So when can we come and instal CCTV throughout your home? After all, if you've got nothing to hide,...

 

 

So when can we come and instal CCTV throughout your home? After all, if you've got nothing to hide,...

 

Is there suede in your head as opposed to grey matter ? :manson: You are being irrational here, such a thing never even happened in communist Russia, silly argument you put across

 

CCTV at shopping centres, railway stations, in shops, in high streeets and so on is a good way of tracking down criminals and chavs, the idea of CCTV in our homes is absurd

Edited November 10, 200717 yr by Vic Vega

Is there suede in your head as opposed to grey matter ? :manson: You are being irrational here, such a thing never even happened in communist Russia, silly argument you put across

 

CCTV at shopping centres, railway stations, in shops, in high streeets and so on is a good way of tracking down criminals and chavs, the idea of CCTV in our homes is absurd

Tracking down chavs? I must have missed chavdom being made a criminal offence. My objection to CCTV is that it is treating me as a potential criminal. I may have nothing to hide but I want the right to decide to hide whatever I want as long as it's legal.

 

"If you've got nothing to hide" is up there with "It's political correctness gone mad" as a lazy argument.

Tracking down chavs? I must have missed chavdom being made a criminal offence. My objection to CCTV is that it is treating me as a potential criminal. I may have nothing to hide but I want the right to decide to hide whatever I want as long as it's legal.

 

"If you've got nothing to hide" is up there with "It's political correctness gone mad" as a lazy argument.

 

I was using the word chav to describe young criminals that cause vandalism and petty crime and so on the type of things that CCTV is invaluable at tracking down offenders for. Wait till you get your car vandalised at a train station car park or your radio stolen in the car park of a shopping mall or mugged getting out of a bar and you would be BEGGING for CCTV mate

 

 

I was using the word chav to describe young criminals that cause vandalism and petty crime and so on the type of things that CCTV is invaluable at tracking down offenders for. Wait till you get your car vandalised at a train station car park or your radio stolen in the car park of a shopping mall or mugged getting out of a bar and you would be BEGGING for CCTV mate

Wrong. I have been mugged and I'm not begging for CCTV.

 

I don't have any great objection to the use of CCTV cameras in places like car parks. The only reason for being in a car park is to go to and from your car and you're not going to hang around for long. But I object strongly to being followed by cameras wherever I go.

CCTV is being TOTALLY abused.. Just ask any motorist.. CCTV/Speedcams are one of the most blatant and obvious examples of "Mission Creep"... I think that CCTV is basically the modern day equivalent of Jeremy Bentham's idea of a "Panopticon Prison", ie a prison where all inmates were observed from one central point.. Only difference is, it aint only being applied to the guilty, the criminal, it is being applied to every man, woman and child in the country.... I dont doubt its necessity in train stations, football grounds or car parks, but it is going way too far now... You could conceivably track the movements of one person from various CCTV networks from one end of the country to the other... THAT is a very scary thought if you ask me, there is NOWHERE in this land of ours that is free from it....

 

It's not enough to say "if you're doing nothing, you shouldn't object", blah, blah... Utter c**p and such a lazy and discreditied argument, we should ALL be concerned that these days it seems that we have to prove that we're innocent instead of the state having to prove our guilt. I dont go along with this in any way whatsoever, our rule of law is quite clear -"innocent until proven guilty", things like CCTV and DNA databases take away that very fundamental aspect of our system of law.... And we cant go around blaming the EU for it either, it is OUR control freak Govt that is doing this, NOT Brussels....

 

 

CCTV is being TOTALLY abused.. Just ask any motorist.. CCTV/Speedcams are one of the most blatant and obvious examples of "Mission Creep"... I think that CCTV is basically the modern day equivalent of Jeremy Bentham's idea of a "Panopticon Prison", ie a prison where all inmates were observed from one central point.. Only difference is, it aint only being applied to the guilty, the criminal, it is being applied to every man, woman and child in the country.... I dont doubt its necessity in train stations, football grounds or car parks, but it is going way too far now... You could conceivably track the movements of one person from various CCTV networks from one end of the country to the other... THAT is a very scary thought if you ask me, there is NOWHERE in this land of ours that is free from it....

 

It's not enough to say "if you're doing nothing, you shouldn't object", blah, blah... Utter c**p and such a lazy and discreditied argument, we should ALL be concerned that these days it seems that we have to prove that we're innocent instead of the state having to prove our guilt. I dont go along with this in any way whatsoever, our rule of law is quite clear -"innocent until proven guilty", things like CCTV and DNA databases take away that very fundamental aspect of our system of law.... And we cant go around blaming the EU for it either, it is OUR control freak Govt that is doing this, NOT Brussels....

 

 

............. so......... lets get rid of all cctv's then and let vandals, muggers, EVEN THE POLICE get away with criminal acts <_< typical... cut of your pc nose to spite your human rights face...

 

god id hate to live in your world, itd be a criminals charter to run riot and get away with it... its a great pity that we need cctv in our society, but we would be a damn sight worse off without it. its these wishy washy liberal do-gooder ideas in the name of 'freedom' and 'human rights' that has left us with a crime ridden society. speed cameras?... THEN DONT FCUKIN SPEED! the limits are there for a reason.

So when can we come and instal CCTV throughout your home? After all, if you've got nothing to hide,...

 

THAT wouldnt be 'cctv' !!!!!

THAT wouldnt be 'cctv' !!!!!

Closed Circuit Television - a television system in which the video signals are transmitted from one or more cameras by cable to a restricted set of monitors. New Oxford Dictionary Of English

 

Nothing there about where they are sited.

Closed Circuit Television - a television system in which the video signals are transmitted from one or more cameras by cable to a restricted set of monitors. New Oxford Dictionary Of English

 

Nothing there about where they are sited.

 

nether the less... you original post was silly, AS IF they are going to put them in someones home! <_<

CCTV is being TOTALLY abused.. Just ask any motorist.. CCTV/Speedcams are one of the most blatant and obvious examples of "Mission Creep"... I think that CCTV is basically the modern day equivalent of Jeremy Bentham's idea of a "Panopticon Prison", ie a prison where all inmates were observed from one central point.. Only difference is, it aint only being applied to the guilty, the criminal, it is being applied to every man, woman and child in the country.... I dont doubt its necessity in train stations, football grounds or car parks, but it is going way too far now... You could conceivably track the movements of one person from various CCTV networks from one end of the country to the other... THAT is a very scary thought if you ask me, there is NOWHERE in this land of ours that is free from it....

 

It's not enough to say "if you're doing nothing, you shouldn't object", blah, blah... Utter c**p and such a lazy and discreditied argument, we should ALL be concerned that these days it seems that we have to prove that we're innocent instead of the state having to prove our guilt. I dont go along with this in any way whatsoever, our rule of law is quite clear -"innocent until proven guilty", things like CCTV and DNA databases take away that very fundamental aspect of our system of law.... And we cant go around blaming the EU for it either, it is OUR control freak Govt that is doing this, NOT Brussels....

 

Speed cameras just track number plates Scott they don't track the driver or show any images of the driver purely the number plate, I find speed cameras a pain in the ass and they cause more trouble on the roads than good with drivers braking sharply when approaching a speed camera but you can't compare that with CCTV which is an essential security measure. Remember the 21/7 bombers ? they were caught through CCTV images of them, without CCTV they would have come back another day with better timing devices and blown up 4 underground trains. CCTV has lead to the arrest of murderers of rapists of muggers of armed robbers, of terrorists but with what you posted here they would be walking the streets still committing crimes.

 

It is not lazy or discredited to say it Scott, I have never been arrested through CCTV nor has anyone I have ever known been arrested because of CCTV simply because the fact is we haven't done anything so I am not bothered about CCTV, I am bothered about ID cards but I think CCTV is an excellent tool in the fight against crime and should be encouraged

 

The above post of yours makes you the criminals' friend mate, they love people with views like yours and any criminal reading this would think "hey I would love to meet this guy and shake his hand and buy him a beer" that ain't a dig at you its the fact you can't see how much good CCTV has done in crime detection

 

You are an intelligent guy Scott but when you come out with a post like this drying paint would watch you when it is bored :(

............. so......... lets get rid of all cctv's then and let vandals, muggers, EVEN THE POLICE get away with criminal acts <_< typical... cut of your pc nose to spite your human rights face...

 

god id hate to live in your world, itd be a criminals charter to run riot and get away with it... its a great pity that we need cctv in our society, but we would be a damn sight worse off without it. its these wishy washy liberal do-gooder ideas in the name of 'freedom' and 'human rights' that has left us with a crime ridden society. speed cameras?... THEN DONT FCUKIN SPEED! the limits are there for a reason.

 

:wacko: I absolutely 110% agree with you. You tell em' my friend. CCTV is not an abuse of freedom, it is in place to protect people who want to live a normal life. How else would the police be able to track down muggers, Vandals, Rapists and so on. i Know of people, who won't go out at night because they are scared of hoodlums hanging around causing trouble. Living in Romford, East London, CCTV is bloody essential. :angry:

 

It is not lazy or discredited to say it Scott, I have never been arrested through CCTV nor has anyone I have ever known been arrested because of CCTV simply because the fact is we haven't done anything so I am not bothered about CCTV, I am bothered about ID cards but I think CCTV is an excellent tool in the fight against crime and should be encouraged

 

The above post of yours makes you the criminals' friend mate, they love people with views like yours and any criminal reading this would think "hey I would love to meet this guy and shake his hand and buy him a beer" that ain't a dig at you its the fact you can't see how much good CCTV has done in crime detection

 

Absolute bollocks... Did I not say that CCTV was necessary in certain places, my objection is to it being just about everywhere you bloody look... In London never mind rats, I reckon you're only about 6 feet away from a bloody CCTV camera anywhere you go, whether it's through and airport or train station (necessary) or if you're just nipping off to the local shop for your sodding paper in the morning. Bugger all to do with being a "Criminal's friend" or whatever, I just totally question the necessity of a lot of it, our EU neighbours dont use it to anything like the extent we do in UK, and they're not exactly in the grips of anarchy... Also, who is watching the watchers...? A lot of CCTV footage (usually of the salubrious nature, couple having sex in parked cars, etc...) has ended up being totally illegally posted up onto the internet, that really is an abuse of the system, you cant argue with that... As for fighting crime, well it sure didn't help that old boy in Croydon did it...? Very obvious CCTV footage of his assault, his assailant got away with a custodial sentence... So what is the point of it if crims are just gonna walk free....? <_<

 

And I do think that Suedehead's point is a valid one tbh, how long would it take before some Govt down the line got the idea to target private homes with CCTV...?

 

It has its uses, but I question the sheer ubiquitousness of it all...

 

............. so......... lets get rid of all cctv's then and let vandals, muggers, EVEN THE POLICE get away with criminal acts <_< typical... cut of your pc nose to spite your human rights face...

 

god id hate to live in your world, itd be a criminals charter to run riot and get away with it... its a great pity that we need cctv in our society, but we would be a damn sight worse off without it. its these wishy washy liberal do-gooder ideas in the name of 'freedom' and 'human rights' that has left us with a crime ridden society. speed cameras?... THEN DONT FCUKIN SPEED! the limits are there for a reason.

 

What absolute c**p you spout sometimes... Neither myself nor Suedehead have argued against CCTV being used in certain areas (such as airports, rail stations, public transport, business premises...), we argue that about its necessity to be used just about everywhere.... Effective crime fighting tool...? Well that's debatable tbh, a lot of footage is practically worthless for these purposes, cams are at too high an angle usually, footage is grainy, and in the case of that old boy who was assaulted in Croydon, well, they had VERY CLEAR footage of the perpetrator, and he still got away without a prison sentence.... :lol: :lol: So, the point of it all is....?

 

And just exactly how to ideas of freedom and human rights cause crime then....? As if there weren't crimes being committed in Victorian times or times when we had no concepts of freedom or human rights... You're beginning to sound like you'd like us to be a country like China or Saudi Arabia or summat....

 

And when was the last time a copper who committed a criminal act actually got sent down for it....? Hah! That would be once in a ruddy blue moon.... :lol: :lol:

Absolute bollocks... Did I not say that CCTV was necessary in certain places, my objection is to it being just about everywhere you bloody look... In London never mind rats, I reckon you're only about 6 feet away from a bloody CCTV camera anywhere you go, whether it's through and airport or train station (necessary) or if you're just nipping off to the local shop for your sodding paper in the morning. Bugger all to do with being a "Criminal's friend" or whatever, I just totally question the necessity of a lot of it, our EU neighbours dont use it to anything like the extent we do in UK, and they're not exactly in the grips of anarchy... Also, who is watching the watchers...? A lot of CCTV footage (usually of the salubrious nature, couple having sex in parked cars, etc...) has ended up being totally illegally posted up onto the internet, that really is an abuse of the system, you cant argue with that... As for fighting crime, well it sure didn't help that old boy in Croydon did it...? Very obvious CCTV footage of his assault, his assailant got away with a custodial sentence... So what is the point of it if crims are just gonna walk free....? <_<

 

And I do think that Suedehead's point is a valid one tbh, how long would it take before some Govt down the line got the idea to target private homes with CCTV...?

 

It has its uses, but I question the sheer ubiquitousness of it all...

 

You can't compare us to other European country's mate the Chav culture does not exist elsewhere like it does here, most of the crime that is committed in this country that CCTV is useful for is as a result of the effects of binge drinking - assaults, GBH, vandalism to bus shelters and cars, sexual assaults and so on and the rest of Europe does not have a culture where 90% of the youth feel it necessary to get absolutely plastered every friday and saturday night it don't happen in other countries so there is less need there for CCTV

 

I think there should be MORE CCTV not less, there should be more CCTV in residential areas that are plagued with unruly chavs where the residents are too scared to go out after dark

 

Suedehead is being absolutely paranoid beyond belief, god I hate "New Labour" with a passion lol but even I do not believe they would ever stoop so low as to what he is suggesting, Putin's Russia, North Korea, China, Cuba, Zimbabwe have some of the most repressive control freak governments in the entire world but do they install CCTV in everyone's houses ? no course they do not, Suedehead lost any credibility in this debate when he made that comment about CCTV being installed in homes, that ever happened 52m people would be heading for Heathrow mate and the country would collapse. If the idea of CCTV in homes hasn't occured to Putin or Castro or Mugabe or Kim Il Jong its hardly going to occur to Gordon Brown :lol: