The problem is more with the article than Dr Bari.

It just doesn't give enough details. Do we know in what context those comments were made? Like Grimly Fiendish has just pointed out, do we know if he was referring to the Muslim community or to the whole British public? Who are these war widows who have reacted angrily, and what exactly what their comments? Which MPs exactly are involved? What reasons did Dr Bari give for wanting to ban public drinking?

 

We don't have the full picture here, how can we comment? Whatever Bari may or may not have said, this article was clearly written to provoke a negative reaction from the British public; claiming the war widows were offended without actually quoting any of them is a tactic to sensationalise the issue. And it's worked on BJ, most of us have already assumed the worst.

Is there a full article on this story so we can all comment on the full facts? Until I see that, I'm going to take this story with a pinch of salt.

It's pretty disgraceful that ANY newspaper can write such a vague, short, overly emotive and completely p***-poor article on such a sensitive issue.

 

 

the full article is here http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/24811/...s-Britain-Nazi-

Is he not just applying it to his own community though...? I dont think he's seriously trying to say that this is what non-Muslims should be doing as well....

 

It really sounded like it, cause he said "Britain", and not British muslisms. But even if it applies just for the muslims, in any democratic state you cannot be forced to do something except by the law, don´t matter which religious or ethnic community you belong. Muslims are not free to do with their wives and children whatever they want to, they are subject to the law of the country they live in...

The problem is more with the article than Dr Bari.

It just doesn't give enough details. Do we know in what context those comments were made? Like Grimly Fiendish has just pointed out, do we know if he was referring to the Muslim community or to the whole British public? Who are these war widows who have reacted angrily, and what exactly what their comments? Which MPs exactly are involved? What reasons did Dr Bari give for wanting to ban public drinking?

 

We don't have the full picture here, how can we comment? Whatever Bari may or may not have said, this article was clearly written to provoke a negative reaction from the British public; claiming the war widows were offended without actually quoting any of them is a tactic to sensationalise the issue. And it's worked on BJ, most of us have already assumed the worst.

Is there a full article on this story so we can all comment on the full facts? Until I see that, I'm going to take this story with a pinch of salt.

It's pretty disgraceful that ANY newspaper can write such a vague, short, overly emotive and completely p***-poor article on such a sensitive issue.

 

A very sensible post Shoat, I just wish some people were as perceptive as you are and saw through this so-called "article" for what it is - tabloid sensationalism with a very poor grasp on facts and badly researched... I dont object to somebody critiqueing the Islamic faith (such as Craig did when he confined his comments to Islam as a religion which is fair comment in my book...), my problem is that it all too often spills over into a load of offensive, racist codswallop about Muslims, and Asians/Arabs in general, as people and as an ethnic minority....

 

And ANYONE who quotes verbatim from, and makes excuses for, racist old c/unts like Enoch Powell, no matter how intelligent he might have been (which actually makes his words even worse if you think about it...), I seriously wonder about....

 

As Mrs Merton once said "Let's have a heated debate", but "heated debate" does NOT involve racism or crass scapegoating of a much maligned and slandered group of people... We can say virtually NOTHING bad about the Jews because they have good representation, but it seems like we can spout whatever ill-informed, ignorant c**p about Muslims we like, and I dont go along with that one iota....

the full article is here http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/24811/...s-Britain-Nazi-

 

Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari said perceptions of Muslims were so negative there was a danger that people’s minds would be “poisoned as they were in the Thirties”.

 

Well, if that's the full text of what the guy actually said, where's the real problem....? He doesn't even mention Nazis or UK becoming like Nazi Germany in so many words, he's talking about a poisoning of people's minds against muslims, and I would argue, migrants in general tbh.... I dont think his comments on this particular score are as outlandish as some people are claiming tbh, I do see myself a spiteful mean-spiritedness that's coming out of people, and some of the reportage that there has been about muslims and immigrants in general is almost certainly poisonous, offensive and borderline racist propaganda, quite a lot of it coming from hoary right wing rags like The Express, The Daily Fascist, oops, sorry Mail, and The Scum.... This IS pretty much how it started in Germany in the 30s - with propaganda and media manipulation, the concentration camps didn't get built til much later.....

 

I dont like Dr Bari as a person or his organisation very much, but to me, what he's talking about is a scapegoating of muslims in pretty much the same way as the Jews were scapegoated in the 30s, and frankly, I DO see where he's coming from, very much so, because I've seen examples of it in the media....

And ANYONE who quotes verbatim from, and makes excuses for, racist old c/unts like Enoch Powell, no matter how intelligent he might have been (which actually makes his words even worse if you think about it...), I seriously wonder about....

 

 

err...yes, that was me, Scott... and, whilst I appreciate your concern, there's absolutely no reason to err... "wonder" about me. I'm quite fine.... nothing for you to fret about, kid, really there isn't.

 

Now.... I suggest YOU read the Powell speech and, offensive names aside, point out EXACTLY what you object to - point by point, too. I'm rather interested to find out exactly what you find so disgraceful about the Rivers of Blood speech because, reading it asgain this morning.... I truly can't see anything in there that he wasn't 110% correct about.

 

Can you?

 

And as for your question regarding me knowing any Asian/Muslim people - Scott, you don't strengthen any argument by questioning people's intelligence or sources of information or to sneeringly enquire if their social circle and skills are as colossal and all-encompassing as you're so keen on telling us YOURS are. All you do is make yourself sound like one of those puffed-up smug buffoons you tend to rally against.

Now.... I suggest YOU read the Powell speech and, offensive names aside

 

The problem is, you CANT leave aside the offensive name-calling, the general dehumanizing of ethnic populations that he was clearly guilty of and which directly led to the rise of extreme right wing groups like the NF who used Powell's speech as their justification and quoted parts of in their literature... Of course, he might be making one or two valid points, but the poison of his general attitude and his inherent racism cancels that out as far as I'm concerned... It's a bit like putting a dollop of cream on a punnet of rancid, mouldy strawberries.... Not exactly appetising..... Half of my DNA is Irish Catholic, people like him defended the extremely questionable "right" of landlords and hoteliers to put up signs saying "No Blacks, No Dogs, No IRISH". He can fukk off and die.... Oh, wait a minute, he DID fukk off and die didn't he....? Good riddance to bad rubbish....

 

The fact that he was having a go at the SIKH COMMUNITY of all people as well, I mean WTF???? When were they EVER a problem for anyone.... I find it incredibly ironic that you as a gay man would defend anyone this bigoted.. You honestly think he would have anything positive to say about YOU?? No, he'd call you a sodomite and probably have you arrested and carted off to the nearest prison..... Dont think for a minute that he voted for the legalisation of homosexuality....

 

I also find it ironic that you make all these noises about people being tolerant towards the gay community, which is fair enough, more power to you, I agree; but then on the other show VERY little tolerance yourself towards others... You need to sort that out mate, pronto, because your sweeping statements about blacks, muslims, polish people and other minorities who you imagine have committed some sort of personal slight on you is frankly a bit out of order....

Scott, you don't strengthen any argument by questioning people's intelligence or sources of information or to sneeringly enquire if their social circle and skills are as colossal and all-encompassing as you're so keen on telling us YOURS are. All you do is make yourself sound like one of those puffed-up smug buffoons you tend to rally against.

 

I think that it's highly pertinent to question sources of information and references.. I work in an Academic setting, we have to back up our arguments and cite credible, sources... Which is why academic journals tend to be far more reliable sources of information than soundbites or tabloids.... :P

 

And, I think that if you DONT know or work with any people of an ethnic background and then make sweeping generalisations about them not actually knowing anyone on a personal level, then that's just plain fukkin' ignorance in my book..... It's a bit like all those ultra right-wing christian tossers who went on about "Life Of Brian" or "Jerry Springer - The Opera" being offensive and all that, but on closer examination, you actually discover they'd never even watched them, so how can they claim "offence" by it....? Like I say, ignorance.... -_-

 

Nowt to do with being "smug", I just question your sources and your "facts" and figures....

 

And it IS this exact level of blind ignorance, blatant stereotyping and defamation that led two the instance of two young british-born asian lads being forced off a plane by a bunch of racist, ignorant c/unts not so long ago simply because they were having a private conversation with each other in BENGALI..... But I suppose you'd try to justify that wouldn't you....?

The problem is, you CANT leave aside the offensive name-calling, the general dehumanizing of ethnic populations that he was clearly guilty of and which directly led to the rise of extreme right wing groups like the NF who used Powell's speech as their justification and quoted parts of in their literature... Of course, he might be making one or two valid points, but the poison of his general attitude and his inherent racism cancels that out as far as I'm concerned... It's a bit like putting a dollop of cream on a punnet of rancid, mouldy strawberries.... Not exactly appetising..... Half of my DNA is Irish Catholic, people like him defended the extremely questionable "right" of landlords and hoteliers to put up signs saying "No Blacks, No Dogs, No IRISH". He can fukk off and die.... Oh, wait a minute, he DID fukk off and die didn't he....? Good riddance to bad rubbish....

 

Half my family are Irish and TBH they never really had a problem with Powell.

Half my family are Irish and TBH they never really had a problem with Powell.

 

Well, he never explicitly insulted the Irish to the level of calling them something like "thick paddies" or "stupid micks" did he...? I rather think if he did, your folks would almost certainly have objected.... Whereas he did call black people "negroes" and "grinning-faced piccaninnies", which are demeaning and offensive phrases...

I also find it ironic that you make all these noises about people being tolerant towards the gay community,

Muslims.... you know as well as I do that Islam is an incredibly narrow, short-sighted and backward religion. You profess to be the chief halo-polisher for the womens rights movements, gay rights, equality for all etcetera etcetera etcetera. You have just as many problems with Islam as I do, Scott - it's just I'm not afraid to say it. That's our one difference on Ilsam, isn't it?

 

 

You and a few others go to far though, you start to insult the people, not the religion itself... The same with all these pretty hysterical tabloid articles... There's a difference between valid criticism and causing offence, you cross the line into the latter all too often mate....

 

And you bang on about equality for gay people constantly.... I dont have a problem with that, I agree with you in many respects, but if you expect others to be tolerant, then you have to show some yourself, and you continually go on the offensive.....

 

Okay, I concede that NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING to learn even the most rudimentary languages skills is kinda rude and a bit out of order, I guess if you cant even order a drink or a meal, then you really should learn that at least... :lol: But the English are as bad when they go abroad, they seem to think that TALKING AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE is gonna help.... :lol: :lol:

Oh bollocks, I seriously fukked up the above post somehow......

 

I'm sooooo sorry mate.... :blush:

 

Could you post your original again....?

I don't have a copy of it :(

I don't have a copy of it :(

 

Oh arse...... :(

 

I was in a rush to reply cos I had to go off somewhere, and I just made an utter balls of it.....

 

So sorry mate, I musta hit the "Edit" function instead of the "Quote" function.....