Perhaps if morons on ALL sides of this debate could actually recognise the facts that essentially Jews, Christians and Muslims are actually PRAYING TO THE SAME FUKKIN' GOD and are basically just all variants and different interpretations of each other, we wouldn't actually have any problems.....

 

that is only your conjecture, as wether you like it or not.... jews, christians, muslims etc dont regard themselves as praying to the same god! THATS WHATS CAUSED ALL THE PROBLEMS!

that is only your conjecture, as wether you like it or not.... jews, christians, muslims etc dont regard themselves as praying to the same god! THATS WHATS CAUSED ALL THE PROBLEMS!

 

Well, they kinda are mate, because they all refer to the 'creator' as "the one true god", there aint different Christian, Islamic or Jewish "gods" in the sense that, say, Hinduism and Bhuddism have different gods .... Allah means "god", it aint a different god, it just happens to be the ancient Arabic word for God....

 

The more enlightened Jews, Christians and Muslims (of which unfortunately there are nowhere near enough of...) accept the simple truth that they DO all pray to the same God and that the Bible and the Koran are just different interpretations of the same thing....

very eloquent, however it was a complete waste of typing as i have all along refered to the church and NOT to religion. :lol:

 

Like there's a difference.... -_- You cant have "the church" without religion mate, they kinda rely on each other, religion cant possibly be separated from "the church", despite the best efforts of loose cannons like the Bishop of Durham...

 

Besides, "the church" is another anachronistic, outdated, controlling institution sorely in need of an upgrade.....

Time for religion, ALL religion, to go the way of the dinosaur, or else, religion may just lead to us going that way in the end...

 

well you've said something I agree with, anyway ;)

yes basically!.... id find a call to prayer here in the uk offensive, and im not even a christian! again id suggest that the ringing of church bells in an islamic country simply would not be tollerated, islam isnt this countries religion, this country was built upon the teachings of the christian church (and it wasnt all good, nor do i agree with most of it...but facts is facts).

 

the day church bells would be allowed to ring out over mecca is the day id accept the muslim call to prayer over here.

 

it doesnt really fit does it..... bells in the desert? foreign calls to prayer over englands green and pleasant land?.....

 

But if we treat muslims in the west just like they threat christians in muslim countries, we would just be going back to the "an eye for an eye...". We shouldn´t even allow them to build temples and worship or whatever just like in f***ing Arabia. By doing this we would become as brutal as the ones we criticize.

When I was in Qatar which was at the time a strict Islamic state non muslim places of worship were forbidden, you were allowed to practice your religion on your own compound or in the privacy of your own home but there were no churches or synagogues so why should they be allowed mosques in this country, freedom works 2 ways mate

 

How stupid... so we should wait until Qatar or whatever f***ing islamic country gives entire freedom to its population, before we westerns start doing so? What if we do that with any other basical rights that are denied in these countries...

So what?? All that means is that for THOUSANDS of years before this, we were all NON-Christian... I'd happily see every single fukkin' church, mosque, synagogue razed to the sodding ground and a re-establishment of our real, traditional British Pagan belief systems, but in a modernist setting. The Norwegian black metallers had the right idea a few years back if you ask me, burn down churches which defiled ancient pagan sites...

 

The facts are we had Catholicism IMPOSED upon us against our will, we had Protestantism IMPOSED upon us against our will.. These were certainly not natural processes, it provoked much violence, bloodshed and mass slaughter, Christianity is NOT indigenous to our islands, never has been... So really, what difference does it make if another religion wants to come in and establish itself, it's not exactly without historical precedent..? It's exactly what Catholicism did all over the world...

 

Lol

 

And you think paganism was spread due to pure love and peace among ancient peoples. As if pagans before christianity didn´t enslave themselves too, made wars, sacrifice children, etc. You think paganism was this flower power religion of good thinking and listening to Enya songs, lol.

 

You talk like a child who just read a history book and becomes rebel. If religions did these stuff in the past it´s not necessary to repeat it today as if that would fix stuff from centuries ago... the witches who were burn won´t get back to life if we put in practice your nonsense violence ideology.

well that might well be true, and as a one time member of the pagan federation its what id prefer to see, however you cannot change history and much though i dont like the christian church to erase it from our culture and heritage would be utterly STUPID, vandalism at its worst, you cannot extracate such a pillar... a foundation stone, of british society. after 1500 years it HAS become 'our' religion ....like it or not.

 

Exactly. Even in an atheist country like Britain, Christianity has been present for so much time that it has become a "cultural religion", just like Richard Dawkings says, he is a "cultural christian".

...... so we allow islam to take root here and eventually overthrow christianity leading to britain becoming an islamic state which will become autocratic and control the masses using religion and destroying democracy?...:lol: because thats the logical conclusion to your seeming reluctance to condemn islam and support YOUR nation.

 

Muslims will never take over the west... Islam is not actually "growing" in the west, it´s just migration. 99% of muslims in the west are migrants or descendents of migrants of islamic territories... it is not a religion that spreads without family heritage or use of force. Islamic countries don´t want to allow christianity because pentecostal christianity is the only big religion that actually "grows" in the 21st century in this planet. By growing I mean converting people who belonged to other religious tradition or were non religious, and not simply vegetative growth that happens in poor islamic countries were families have like 30 kids.

Not from fukkin Christianity that's for sure.... Paganism predates Christianity by about, ohhh, lemme see, a good five THOUSAND years or so, probably more....

 

Just like the Hamurabi code preceedes the human rights... we might go back to "an eye for an eye" because that was the genuine human law centuries before these f***ing ocidentals started to think women should be treated as people... lol..

What's unsupportable about it..? I just gave examples of THREE non-religious philosophies that we could adopt instead of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, et al... YOU are hyporcrite for defending an ideology you dont even believe in ffs.... You're quick to agree with Richard Dawkins and other anti-religious commentators on the one hand, then you come on here and start a defence of our "Christian Heritage". Make up your fukkin' mind.

Oh please... the world already had experiences of countries who tried to substitute christianity and marxism... it is unecessary to comment on the results.

 

Religion may have served a purpose (as rubbing two sticks together to make fire did once serve a purpose, but, hey, guess what, we've got CENTRAL HEATING these days folks...) hundreds of years ago, those times no longer exist, and we need an upgrade, simple as, and it aint as if there arent any, NON religious alternatives.... If you're a cheerleader for Richard Dawkins mate (as you have been, you cant deny that), then the removal of church, and religion as a whole, from our society is exactly what you are advocating because that is pretty much what he is arguing in a nutshell, a complete separation of church from state... No getting round it.... I'll say it again - make up your mind exactly what it is you are advocating, because you are sending a totally mixed message by arguing on the one hand, for the anti-religiosity argument of Dawkins and on the other, defending the christian church's role in society (which hasn't exactly been all that positive as plenty of historical - and more recent - examples can attest...), you cant have it both ways....

 

Dawkins as an atheist idol never said he wanted the christian church to be removed, and recently he said he considers himself a "cultural christian", who has no problems in singing christams songs, for example, even tough not a believer... he is civilized. He would not want to use force to convince people of his beliefs... even because the perios the church has suffered more persecution, were the periods it grew more and produced more intelectual heritage to humanity. You can´t put an end to the church by using force... the biggest proof of that is that the Russian Church remains strong decades after it was persecuted and many of its priests were murdered by the atheist government, and remains one of the strongest of the orthodox group... even with millions of members spread outside of Russia, specially in USA. You can´t kill christianity with persecution, jews and romans tried that 2 thousand years ago when it was just a sect of a few thousand people, and what a result their persecution has lead it, to create the biggest religion of the planet...

Well, they kinda are mate, because they all refer to the 'creator' as "the one true god", there aint different Christian, Islamic or Jewish "gods" in the sense that, say, Hinduism and Bhuddism have different gods .... Allah means "god", it aint a different god, it just happens to be the ancient Arabic word for God....

 

The more enlightened Jews, Christians and Muslims (of which unfortunately there are nowhere near enough of...) accept the simple truth that they DO all pray to the same God and that the Bible and the Koran are just different interpretations of the same thing....

 

By "more enlighted" I suppose you are refering to "lapsed" christians or muslims.... cause christians themselves would never accept the Koran as a mere "different interpretation" of the Bible. Even tough believing in different things doesn´t mean be disrespectful with other beliefs.

Christianity is a load of bull anyway, in the last few hundred years or so it's grown into something that has came from a small minority of millions of passages, books & extracts over thousands of years. It's all highly innacurate, just like most religions.

Muslims will never take over the west... Islam is not actually "growing" in the west, it´s just migration.

 

that is simply not true..... islam IS growing in the west and as a strong force will pose problems in the future (by trying to implement its ideology)

But if we treat muslims in the west just like they threat christians in muslim countries, we would just be going back to the "an eye for an eye...". We shouldn´t even allow them to build temples and worship or whatever just like in f***ing Arabia. By doing this we would become as brutal as the ones we criticize.

 

thats not wot i said <_<

Oh please... the world already had experiences of countries who tried to substitute christianity and marxism... it is unecessary to comment on the results.

 

"Stalinism" or "Maoism" (which is what it was..) aint Marxism mate, not even close... Get your facts straight on that one at least....

that is simply not true..... islam IS growing in the west and as a strong force will pose problems in the future (by trying to implement its ideology)

 

I take your point that Islam is growing as a faith in Europe, but Muslims are still a pretty small minority, so I dont see how they can "take over" as such (which is just hysterical tabloid propaganda if you ask me..), it would take something like 60% of all Christians in Europe to convert to Islam in order for that to happen.. Muslims have no real say or influence over Govt policy either (otherwise the Iraq war would likely never have happened..), certainly not to anything like the degree the Jews or Israelis do.... The only influence that Muslims could possibly have would be on a local level, within their own communities..

I take your point that Islam is growing as a faith in Europe, but Muslims are still a pretty small minority, so I dont see how they can "take over" as such (which is just hysterical tabloid propaganda if you ask me..), it would take something like 60% of all Christians in Europe to convert to Islam in order for that to happen.. Muslims have no real say or influence over Govt policy either (otherwise the Iraq war would likely never have happened..), certainly not to anything like the degree the Jews or Israelis do.... The only influence that Muslims could possibly have would be on a local level, within their own communities..

 

its a logical conclusion that over time muslims would get into positions of power and disproportionately have a voice. its abit like the jews have in our society, so many in parliament, the media, etc ... now we have a holocaust remembrance day for the jews ffs! ... ive only ever met a handful in all my 51 years! ... ive met far more eastern europeans!!!

 

i can see a weak christian faith being eventually ousted by a strong muslim faith, and the % doesnt have to be in favour of muslims, all they need is the voice.

its a logical conclusion that over time muslims would get into positions of power and disproportionately have a voice. its abit like the jews have in our society, so many in parliament, the media, etc ... now we have a holocaust remembrance day for the jews ffs! ... ive only ever met a handful in all my 51 years! ... ive met far more eastern europeans!!!

 

i can see a weak christian faith being eventually ousted by a strong muslim faith, and the % doesnt have to be in favour of muslims, all they need is the voice.

 

Sorry mate, I just dont believe that it would be possible.. If it hasn't happened already (because Muslims have been coming over here for decades), then I dont believe it ever will... Jews get a disproportionate amount of influence because they continually play that sympathy card, and NO ONE wants to be accused of being anti-semitic, so they dont criticise the Jews or the Israelis anything like they should because then the Jewish pressure groups will say that they're pro-holocaust or some sh!t, and the Meeedjaaaa would just jump on the bandwagon because they are pretty much all pro-Israel/Zionist.... The Muslims dont have anything like that kind of ace up their sleeves....