Actualy i'm not white or black. . . . anyway the point was that everyone should be allowed religious freedom no matter where they are

Actualy i'm not white or black. . . . anyway the point was that everyone should be allowed religious freedom no matter where they are

 

i dont agree..... you are supposed to respect the customs and traditions of the counties you are in if you want to live there. but theres a difference between religious freedom and building churches and peeling out noise. (which was the topic here).

 

i think it would be totally disrespectful for christians to build a church and ring bells every sunday in an islamic state (assuming they were allowed too <_<). likewise i think it would be disrespectful and provocative to have muslims being called to prayer in oxford! hell... its not some dusty desert where time is measured by the angle of the sun!!! :lol: we have perfectly functioning chronometers here that are readinly available for viewing (often on churches! ...pmsl...)

Actualy i'm not white or black. . . .

 

but unless you are pure africanse then really you are in no position :) you are a settler, an imigrant.

 

i wonder what the native tribes of south africa, the peoples whos land it was, think about religious freedom..... i wager that their traditional religion is dead thanks to repression.... but im supposing that.

well said, Rob.... especially about the respecting of traditions and customs of the land you're in. Absolutely. It does appear that we need to bend our rules, traditions and way of life to accommodate Muslims in this country - yet they seem unwilling to do ANYTHING to integrate or accommodate us here - including shutting their mouths about the disgraceful way they'd like women and gays to be treated.

 

The basic fact is this.... Islam is such a miserably oppressive and hypocritical religion, there is no way on earth they will EVER accept the Western way of life, respect our long-held traditions and accept that we gave oppression of women and gays the elbow many moons ago. So it's a cold, hard case of - either you accept it, respect it and shut up about your outrageously neanderthal viewpoints toward these things - or you leave this country - as, last time I checked, 99% of what the Muslim Council of Great Britain spouts about gays in particular is now, thankfully, quite illegal.

I agree that the muslims should respect the way of life of the country they live in but should that include not being able to do something which is important to their religion and which would have hardly any impact on anyone else's life. By the way I'm muslim and do not believe in the oppression of woman and have nothing against gays.

I agree that the muslims should respect the way of life of the country they live in but should that include not being able to do something which is important to their religion and which would have hardly any impact on anyone else's life. By the way I'm muslim and do not believe in the oppression of woman and have nothing against gays.

 

yes basically!.... id find a call to prayer here in the uk offensive, and im not even a christian! again id suggest that the ringing of church bells in an islamic country simply would not be tollerated, islam isnt this countries religion, this country was built upon the teachings of the christian church (and it wasnt all good, nor do i agree with most of it...but facts is facts).

 

the day church bells would be allowed to ring out over mecca is the day id accept the muslim call to prayer over here.

 

it doesnt really fit does it..... bells in the desert? foreign calls to prayer over englands green and pleasant land?.....

Ok fair enough but that doesn't make it right in Mecca or Britain. It would still be wrong if they didnt allow the christians their own religious freedom there

 

Ok fair enough but that doesn't make it right in Mecca or Britain. It would still be wrong if they didnt allow the christians their own religious freedom there

 

Muslims can't have their cake and eat it mate, they have no right to come here and impose their religion on others while at the same time denying other religions the free right to practice in muslim countries, if it was down to me I would close down every damn mosque in the country simply on the grounds that muslim states will not allow churches and synagogues in their own lands

 

When I was in Qatar which was at the time a strict Islamic state non muslim places of worship were forbidden, you were allowed to practice your religion on your own compound or in the privacy of your own home but there were no churches or synagogues so why should they be allowed mosques in this country, freedom works 2 ways mate

 

 

well said Vic.

Ok fair enough but that doesn't make it right in Mecca or Britain. It would still be wrong if they didnt allow the christians their own religious freedom there

 

theres a difference between being respectful of the indiginous populations wishes and worshiping in private, which should be allowed ... to publically broadcasting it wether its bells or calls to prayer in a foreign land.

christianity came here in the 6th centuary m8.... i think that is more then long enough to qualify as 'traditional british'... :lol: besides our culture, way of life, everything has been effected by the christian church wether you (or i) like it or not.

 

So what?? All that means is that for THOUSANDS of years before this, we were all NON-Christian... I'd happily see every single fukkin' church, mosque, synagogue razed to the sodding ground and a re-establishment of our real, traditional British Pagan belief systems, but in a modernist setting. The Norwegian black metallers had the right idea a few years back if you ask me, burn down churches which defiled ancient pagan sites...

 

The facts are we had Catholicism IMPOSED upon us against our will, we had Protestantism IMPOSED upon us against our will.. These were certainly not natural processes, it provoked much violence, bloodshed and mass slaughter, Christianity is NOT indigenous to our islands, never has been... So really, what difference does it make if another religion wants to come in and establish itself, it's not exactly without historical precedent..? It's exactly what Catholicism did all over the world...

 

Muslims can't have their cake and eat it mate, they have no right to come here and impose their religion on others while at the same time denying other religions the free right to practice in muslim countries, if it was down to me I would close down every damn mosque in the country simply on the grounds that muslim states will not allow churches and synagogues in their own lands

 

When I was in Qatar which was at the time a strict Islamic state non muslim places of worship were forbidden, you were allowed to practice your religion on your own compound or in the privacy of your own home but there were no churches or synagogues so why should they be allowed mosques in this country, freedom works 2 ways mate

 

You cannot compare an authoritarian, autocratic state like Qatar (which has no free elections by the way..) with a democratic one.. The Qatarian regime uses religion as a weapon to control its population (mind you, so does the US in a way...LOL), so it's hardly going to allow alternate faiths is it, or it will lose its grip on power...

 

 

 

So what?? All that means is that for THOUSANDS of years before this, we were all NON-Christian... I'd happily see every single fukkin' church, mosque, synagogue razed to the sodding ground and a re-establishment of our real, traditional British Pagan belief systems, but in a modernist setting. The Norwegian black metallers had the right idea a few years back if you ask me, burn down churches which defiled ancient pagan sites...

 

The facts are we had Catholicism IMPOSED upon us against our will, we had Protestantism IMPOSED upon us against our will.. These were certainly not natural processes, it provoked much violence, bloodshed and mass slaughter, Christianity is NOT indigenous to our islands, never has been... So really, what difference does it make if another religion wants to come in and establish itself, it's not exactly without historical precedent..? It's exactly what Catholicism did all over the world...

 

well that might well be true, and as a one time member of the pagan federation its what id prefer to see, however you cannot change history and much though i dont like the christian church to erase it from our culture and heritage would be utterly STUPID, vandalism at its worst, you cannot extracate such a pillar... a foundation stone, of british society. after 1500 years it HAS become 'our' religion ....like it or not.

You cannot compare an authoritarian, autocratic state like Qatar (which has no free elections by the way..) with a democratic one.. The Qatarian regime uses religion as a weapon to control its population (mind you, so does the US in a way...LOL), so it's hardly going to allow alternate faiths is it, or it will lose its grip on power...

 

...... so we allow islam to take root here and eventually overthrow christianity leading to britain becoming an islamic state which will become autocratic and control the masses using religion and destroying democracy?...:lol: because thats the logical conclusion to your seeming reluctance to condemn islam and support YOUR nation.

Muslims can't have their cake and eat it mate, they have no right to come here and impose their religion on others while at the same time denying other religions the free right to practice in muslim countries, if it was down to me I would close down every damn mosque in the country simply on the grounds that muslim states will not allow churches and synagogues in their own lands

 

Agreed!!

 

 

If they don't want to live by our rules they shouldn't be here simple!

 

Scott, none of us I don't think are believers in God but to rip down OUR church would be just criminal, it's ripping out England.

...... so we allow islam to take root here and eventually overthrow christianity leading to britain becoming an islamic state which will become autocratic and control the masses using religion and destroying democracy?...:lol: because thats the logical conclusion to your seeming reluctance to condemn islam and support YOUR nation.

 

Again...spot on, Rob.

...... so we allow islam to take root here and eventually overthrow christianity leading to britain becoming an islamic state which will become autocratic and control the masses using religion and destroying democracy?...:lol: because thats the logical conclusion to your seeming reluctance to condemn islam and support YOUR nation.

 

No, I just have a problem with one particular religion and its practitioners becoming the focus for all this hate (and that is what it is - pure hatred...) and bile from certain sections of the political establishment and the disgusting, innaccurate sh!te printed about muslims (and that's muslims as a PEOPLE, not any kind of constructive Richard Dawkins-style criticism of the Islamic ideology, which would be fine) in the Tabloid press.. At the end of the day, you either allow complete freedom of all religious worship and practices (and yes, that would include Satanism too), or you dont allow any at all.... Anything else is just discrimination, pure and simple, it's all or nothing as far as I'm concerned, then at least no one could accuse you of being discriminatory. My own personal preferance is to get rid of the lot... Frankly I dont give a sh!t if that does mean destroying our so-called "Christian heritage". It is entirely hypocritical and it damn well needs to be changed, there have been plenty of non-religious ideologies and philosophies drawn up (Marxism, Existentialism, Humanism), time to practice one or more (and a combination of the best elements of all three would probably be the ideal) of these if you ask me....

 

I actually agree with what the French did when they banned religioius iconography from state institutions - because they did it right across the boards - no discrimination, no favouritism....

 

As for "destroying democracy", well, the Nu Labor Govt and Dubya Bush are doing a better job of that than any mad jihadi could ever fukkin' hope for, and they do it in the name of "God" as well mate..... <_<

 

And MY country?? That's a joke innit?? Perhaps if we weren't so far up the arse of the fukkin' Yanks, it might be considered to be MY/OUR country, but seeing as we are.... -_- You want an example...? Well, just look at the bloody ENDLESS coverage of the US Presidential nominations (that's the nominations, not even the elections...), the media is acting as if it is OUR bloody General Elections...... <_< But no one ever criticises this unwelcome 'foreign', un-British, un-European incursion....

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I'm EUROPEAN mate, and I want to see us be equal partners in a United States of Europe, not the bitches of America....

Scott, none of us I don't think are believers in God but to rip down OUR church would be just criminal, it's ripping out England.

 

Then so be it... As I've already pointed out, it AINT our church, it aint English, it aint Scottish, Welsh or Irish, it's as 'foreign' as Islam, because they both originate from the same place - the Middle East....

 

"England" (whatever that means anyway....) existed for thousands of years quite happily without Christianity, it can do so again....

Then so be it... As I've already pointed out, it AINT our church, it aint English, it aint Scottish, Welsh or Irish, it's as 'foreign' as Islam, because they both originate from the same place - the Middle East....

 

"England" (whatever that means anyway....) existed for thousands of years quite happily without Christianity, it can do so again....

 

 

I'm looking at it as a little village with a little church, you cannot rip out the heart of the village, it is just as simple as that. I don't believe in god and I never will do, but when it comes down to it a church is a beautiful peace of work. I don't want to see temples.

I'm looking at it as a little village with a little church, you cannot rip out the heart of the village, it is just as simple as that. I don't believe in god and I never will do, but when it comes down to it a church is a beautiful peace of work. I don't want to see temples.

 

We can perhaps keep the buildings, turn them into museums or nightclubs or summat.... :lol: As for the ideology - consign to the rubbish heap of history.. All of it.....

 

As far as pure architecture goes as well, a temple is a quite beautiful piece of work too on purely aesthetic grounds.... Or perhaps you dont like the Taj Mahal either....