go back to school. Lol. Someone who ever fears a higher being enough to avoid aborption, will also avoid hate, neglect, and abuse even more... It´s funny how you link parents who aborpt their kids to abuse and hate. These are the people whose rights you are defending... lol.

A book cannot feed and protect children... people who read books can. And believe me, they do, much more then you and some politically correct people and you empty atitudes.

 

 

Twice you've told me to 'go back to school' - whilst arguing about an issue you fail to even spell correctly. Hilarious.

 

And as for people who fear God being less likely to hate, neglect and abuse - two words - Catholic church. A religion based entirely on hate and guilt. A religion that merrily covers up obscene amounts of gross abuse in its midst. Time and time and time again. A religion that, if you fail to follow it to the letter, will exclude you like a leper.

 

And your bizarre assumption that people who read that funny old piece of fiction the bible are, in some way, more caring for these kids - again, nonsense. Most of the best kids refuges are NON-religious. Again, I go back to the horrific abuse of children at many Catholic-run orphanages and ask you - what kind of God were they, and the elders (up to the top-level members of the Catholic church - right back to the Vatican) who covered up the abuse like feverish rats, praying to?

 

ps... your indignation that, yes, a foetus IS a living thing right from the off.... how do you feel about the rare breed of people born with their sibling inside them - should these 'living beings' be taken away and kept alive - because they're human? And again I ask you - the foetuses lost, naturally, down a toilet pan - how many have you scooped out and given a proper burial to? If you'd never do this, then your argument that these things are true living beings is, excuse my French, blown out of the water, your viewpoint is, every pun intended, down the pan, is it not? Would you flush your dead child down the toilet? If not - why flush this 'thing' away if its a bona fide child?

What if someone was raped and got pregnant. Would you want to keep the baby knowing that the father is a monster???????

 

yes, JJ'sNipple would want you to keep the child. Crazy, eh?

Twice you've told me to 'go back to school' - whilst arguing about an issue you fail to even spell correctly. Hilarious.

 

And as for people who fear God being less likely to hate, neglect and abuse - two words - Catholic church. A religion based entirely on hate and guilt. A religion that merrily covers up obscene amounts of gross abuse in its midst. Time and time and time again. A religion that, if you fail to follow it to the letter, will exclude you like a leper.

 

And your bizarre assumption that people who read that funny old piece of fiction the bible are, in some way, more caring for these kids - again, nonsense. Most of the best kids refuges are NON-religious. Again, I go back to the horrific abuse of children at many Catholic-run orphanages and ask you - what kind of God were they, and the elders (up to the top-level members of the Catholic church - right back to the Vatican) who covered up the abuse like feverish rats, praying to?

 

ps... your indignation that, yes, a foetus IS a living thing right from the off.... how do you feel about the rare breed of people born with their sibling inside them - should these 'living beings' be taken away and kept alive - because they're human? And again I ask you - the foetuses lost, naturally, down a toilet pan - how many have you scooped out and given a proper burial to? If you'd never do this, then your argument that these things are true living beings is, excuse my French, blown out of the water, your viewpoint is, every pun intended, down the pan, is it not? Would you flush your dead child down the toilet? If not - why flush this 'thing' away if its a bona fide child?

 

To be fair to JJN, English is not their first language, so we can let the spelling and grammar mistakes slide... But in all other respects, this person shows an incredible ignorance of the world and the realities of life and the decisions that people have to make sometimes. Your posts are spot on mate. I find the assumption JJN makes that people who follow some sort of anachronistic religious dogma are somehow more "moral" than anyone else utterly bizarre, and totally wrong.

People with Parkinsons, Alzheimer???? We should just kill them... if they can stand on their own or survive in society without medical or artificial help, or have body misformations, then they are no "full human beings". People with respiratory diseases or mental illness too... people who can´t breath are not human beings lol... they are just "weight" to our society...

 

I wont even dignify that truly idiotic post with a proper response.... -_-

 

Have spent some time consider this(whether abortion is a good thing or not) over the last few months.

My own view used to be that people should have the right to do as they want - free choice. However reading various information about this I do realise there is an equal right of the unborn child who by it's existence is implying that it wishes to be born.

So my revised view on this is that there should be some abortion but it should be made difficult for the mother/parents to do. One of these difficulties would be to make the abortion occur before 24 weeks as a guide(might be exceptions for medical reasons) but also the mother/parents should have councilling or similar communication service which if possible they should pay for.

 

No one has the right to tell another person what to do with their bodies.

 

No one has the right to judge another for their decisions.

 

No one who has posted in this thread will ever experience the surreal panic possible by the thin blue line appearing.....

but then no one who has posted in this will ever feel another living thing inside them jump at the slamming of a door - long before they draw breath.

 

I shall refrain from giving any opinion lest I am called a moron (again)

No one has the right to tell another person what to do with their bodies.

 

the question is.... does the foetus have any rights?.... if so then the mother does NOT have the right to abort. if your foetus reacted to a door slamming then surely it has life and rights to that life. this would contradict the above quote. :)

No one who has posted in this thread will ever experience the surreal panic possible by the thin blue line appearing.....

 

completely avoidable by any responsible person indulging in sexual relations by using contraception.

 

abortion as a means of contraception is disgusting.

Have spent some time consider this(whether abortion is a good thing or not) over the last few months.

My own view used to be that people should have the right to do as they want - free choice. However reading various information about this I do realise there is an equal right of the unborn child who by it's existence is implying that it wishes to be born.

So my revised view on this is that there should be some abortion but it should be made difficult for the mother/parents to do. One of these difficulties would be to make the abortion occur before 24 weeks as a guide(might be exceptions for medical reasons) but also the mother/parents should have councilling or similar communication service which if possible they should pay for.

 

Being Pro-Choice is just that - Pro-Choice, the right to have an abortion or not have an abortion, having the option... What I thoroughly object to are these religious zealots who would attempt to take that choice away from people.... I would say the 24 Week (which is basically 6 months...) time limit is probably a sensible one however...

 

Being Pro-Choice is just that - Pro-Choice, the right to have an abortion or not have an abortion, having the option... What I thoroughly object to are these religious zealots who would attempt to take that choice away from people.... I would say the 24 Week (which is basically 6 months...) time limit is probably a sensible one however...

 

you dont have to be religious to oppose abortion <_<

 

the time limit should be when the foetus has a beating heart...

you dont have to be religious to oppose abortion <_<

 

You may oppose it, but you wouldn't actually try to stop someone from seeking one would you...? There's a difference between not liking something but tolerating it, and what these rabid religious psychos out there are getting up to... Put it this way, would you kill a doctor carrying out abortions or stem cell research, or created a website offering bounties on abortion doctor's heads..? Would you plant an explosive device in a Family Planning Clinic...? Would you go to a Clinic and harrass and threaten vulnerable, scared young girls..? Of course you wouldn't.. But the sort of nutjobs I'm talking about have done ALL of these things..... I dont know of any secular group which would promote the targeting of doctors, patients or clinics to the extent some of these right wing Christian "Pro Life" (and I use the term very loosely here...) goons do....

the time limit should be when the foetus has a beating heart...

 

That statement proves that you are actually Pro-Choice, because you're willing to accept it up to a certain point.... Like I say, being Pro-Choice is just that, being for someone to choose, not taking some ridiculously moralistic stance or making value judgments about people....

 

The irony of the stem cell research debate is that, in 1980s America, its greatest enemy was Ronal Reagan - he campaigned tirelessly to prevent funding, set the whole programme back many, many years - in fact, if it weren't for his starving of cash for the research, we'd very likely be living in a world that isn't affected too much by Alzheimers etc. The research would be so much more advanced than it is today.

 

And.. what did Reagan suffer with in later life? Yep - Alzheimers.

 

And who, suddenly, decided to campaign on BEHALF of the researchers, deciding what they'd fought against in the 80s was now, all of a sudden when it suited them, ok?

 

Yep... none other than self-serving, self-righteous numbskull Nancy 'Sinatra' Regan, that's who.

 

Absolutely Russ.. The hypocrisy of these people just never fails to surprise me... If those idiots hadn't stood in its way, I reckon we could easily be looking at a possible cure for Alzheimers or Parkinsons now... They put the research back by bloody decades... Still, this is hardly anything new is it, religious types standing in the way of progress.. The study of Anatomy, Forensics and Astronomy was hampered for long enough by these fools as well.... If they believe in "God" so much, and that God has a plan, then by their logic, surely to fukk "God" gave these Scientists the gifts and knowlege to pursue these things to benefit mankind.....

 

yes, JJ'sNipple would want you to keep the child. Crazy, eh?

 

Lol, abortion in cases of rape are legalised in most western countries, aren´t they?? So it´s funny that you use that as an excuse. And what about a child that is already born, when you discover her father or mother has just commited an homicide, rape, or etc... should it be sentenced for death for being the son of a monster, lol.

To be fair to JJN, English is not their first language, so we can let the spelling and grammar mistakes slide... But in all other respects, this person shows an incredible ignorance of the world and the realities of life and the decisions that people have to make sometimes. Your posts are spot on mate. I find the assumption JJN makes that people who follow some sort of anachronistic religious dogma are somehow more "moral" than anyone else utterly bizarre, and totally wrong.

 

No, it´s you who assume a scarily ignorant atitude for someone who is suposed to be progressist and open minded... Look how you can´t help invoking personal subjects that have nothing to do with the subject (ie, religion, faith), to disqualify your "oponents", instead of just keeping to solid arguments... I have known atheist people that are against abortion too. My brother is an agnostic, raised in non-practicing catholic family, and is against abortion too... In fact, in my country a survey have stated that more then 92% of the population considers abortion morally wrong, and that´s more then the amount of catholics, and even religious people, in this country. Not all secular or atheist people are reactionary, the type that authomatically disqualifies everything that comes from a source that has any connection with chrsitianity... those reactionary atheist (a small group among the total atheists) are not less intolerant then fundamentalists christians or muslims.

 

That statement proves that you are actually Pro-Choice, because you're willing to accept it up to a certain point.... Like I say, being Pro-Choice is just that, being for someone to choose, not taking some ridiculously moralistic stance or making value judgments about people....

 

What if I think 3 years old is the cutline that gives me an authorization to eliminate the child... What if, in my conviction, a child only becomes a "human being" when it starts talking??? Should the punishment for a mother that kills a 1 year old child be smaller then for a person who kills a 10 year old child or an adult human being? Any type of graduation in different "levels" of human being is wrong. The foetus doesn´t take human form overnight... it´s a gradual process. If we say to a mother it´s okay to abort in the 20 week, then how can we punish one who aborts in the 21st week??? And if we say it´s okay for a mother to abort in any period of pregnancy, how will we sentence to 10 years in jail a person who kills a newborn or a premature child? Just the fact that the baby has had its first breath makes his death automatically be a hundread times more reprobable?

abortion as a means of contraception is disgusting.

 

This happens though through a basic ignorance and poor sex education... You dont see anything like the statistics in places like Holland, Germany or Scandinavia where sex education and the education of prevention of STDs is at a far more advanced level in schools... In UK, we seem to be content to just deny that the problem even exists..... -_- And then when you DO get attempts by public health bodies to try to come up with initiatives to "speak plainly" to kids in schools about sex and STDs, the fukkin Tabloids pounce on it and make out like its somehow "encouraging underage sex".... Yeah, like a Govt health or sex ed campaign could really encourage teenagers with raging hormones to have the desire to go out and shag any more than they already do..... :lol: :lol:

 

Twice you've told me to 'go back to school' - whilst arguing about an issue you fail to even spell correctly. Hilarious.

 

And as for people who fear God being less likely to hate, neglect and abuse - two words - Catholic church. A religion based entirely on hate and guilt. A religion that merrily covers up obscene amounts of gross abuse in its midst. Time and time and time again. A religion that, if you fail to follow it to the letter, will exclude you like a leper.

 

And your bizarre assumption that people who read that funny old piece of fiction the bible are, in some way, more caring for these kids - again, nonsense. Most of the best kids refuges are NON-religious. Again, I go back to the horrific abuse of children at many Catholic-run orphanages and ask you - what kind of God were they, and the elders (up to the top-level members of the Catholic church - right back to the Vatican) who covered up the abuse like feverish rats, praying to?

 

You commit the very childish mistake of imputing the erros of particulars members to an entire religion... Is like blaming atheism itself for all the deaths caused by Stalin, and to extension, all atheist governments that ever existed in this planet... By the way, have you noticed how the atheist countries haven´t been an inch more fair or peaceful then the religious empires... just look at China. I know, it must be frustrating for someone who thinks religion is the cause of all evil to look back at China or the dead communist Russia... The abuse of kids in the Catholic Church exists, but it´s far from being a rule... it happens, scientifically proved, with less frequency with priests then with doctors, for example. Should we blame pediatric medicine for paedophilia too???

 

How do you feel about the murder of a new born child? Should it be made legal or should it have the same punishment as mudering an adult person??? You answear on this have direct impact on your coerence over this subject. Surely killing a baby who was just born cannot be considered murder, while killing a baby who is just about to pop outside is just.... legal.

Being Pro-Choice is just that - Pro-Choice, the right to have an abortion or not have an abortion, having the option... What I thoroughly object to are these religious zealots who would attempt to take that choice away from people.... I would say the 24 Week (which is basically 6 months...) time limit is probably a sensible one however...

You are overlooking that the baby also has a choice. And it's choice as far as we can tell is one of choosing to live.

So it's finding a compromise between the choice of the mother/parents and the choice of the baby.

You commit the very childish mistake of imputing the erros of particulars members to an entire religion

 

And you seem to make the very, very foolish mistake of deeming anyone not simple enough to blindly follow some religion as beneath you.

 

 

The abuse of kids in the Catholic Church exists, but it´s far from being a rule... it happens, scientifically proved, with less frequency with priests then with doctors, for example. Should we blame pediatric medicine for paedophilia too???

 

My problem lies not only with the vile abuse carried out by many members of your 'church' - it is the systematic cover-up operation that not only the priests involved undertook - but EVERY member of the church who knew about it - right the way to the upper echelons of the Vatican. Some religion, eh?

 

How do you feel about the murder of a new born child? Should it be made legal or should it have the same punishment as mudering an adult person??? You answear on this have direct impact on your coerence over this subject. Surely killing a baby who was just born cannot be considered murder, while killing a baby who is just about to pop outside is just.... legal.

 

What has a newborn, breathing, human being got to do with a thumbnail-size foetus? You are arguing on the assumption that a foetus IS a human being, hence able to be 'murdered'. I, however, am not. And you still fail to answer my question re. foetuses aborted naturally down a toilet pan or down some poor woman's leg - how many funerals have you attended for these 'human' beings?