erhm is kim wilde rock or pop??? how come some says she's one of the biggest selling rock chicks in the uk???

 

"Kids In America" is rock right??? & "Cambodia" is rock right???

 

can she be considered punk??? well in the beginning of her career back in 1981??

 

didn't she go pop later in her carrer???

 

so what category can yall put her in???

 

 

sorry for asking soo many questions but i've always been confused where to categoraize her music

some people says she's punk/pop/rock is that right???

Pop from the word go.

Pop from the word go.

 

so she was pop when she first started back in 1981?? i always thought she was abit rocky in the beginning

oh well i like her anayway especially her lips has she had them done?? or is it naturally like that??

lol...

 

ok

 

kim wilde was pop, nothing more. i guess that in todays terminology the true meaning of rock and pop are somewhat blurred. 'pop' seems to mean cheesy lightweight nonsense and guitar groups are rock or indie... truth is by retro standards its all pop... pop groups... rock was always much heavier.

Eh I don't think Kim Wilde was a pop artists until her 86' album "Another Step" her albums previous to that were very more rock driven with a mix of a little pop... but "Another Step" imho is pure pop. I mean "You Keep Me Hanging On" is very pop.. same with "Say You Really Want Me" and her other albums after that are extremely pop. Personally my favorite Kim Album is "Teases and Dares" but my favorite song is "Say You Really Want Me".

I always thought her music might be pop, with a punk rock edge to it....then again, I claim to be no expert in compatmentalising artists, anyhow.... :rolleyes:

 

 

I always liked 'Kids in Amaerica' since I heard it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in 1982, or thereabouts...

Definately pop in my book.

Great artist, she's done a few classic singles, her comeback album

which was released in Europe only is very good.

Eh I don't think Kim Wilde was a pop artists until her 86' album "Another Step" her albums previous to that were very more rock driven with a mix of a little pop...

 

 

you have unwittingly highlighted my point! :lol:

 

'pop' wasnt invented as a genre by watertwat in the mid 80's... it had been the label of choice for over 25 years and encompassed a wide variety of sounds.

 

'rock' isnt the use of guitars and volume in a track... since merseybeat in 63-4 electric guitars were the staple instrument in pop songs, kim wilde has done NOTHING that can be considered 'rock'.

 

i blame watertwat for the confusion in todays music world. his pwl sound was sold to a new generation of (post punk) kids and guitar pop was out of fashion. from the late 80's until the early 00's guitar pop (britpop for eg) was largely seen as 'indie' whilst 'pop' refered to watertwats production line bollox. when BUSTED, yes busted! formed and made guitar pop, pop groups, fashionable again amongst the young did the confusion become apparent. busted were a good old fashioned pop group... like the kinks, beatles, stones, slade, trex, sweet, etc etc.. THEY were always refered to as POP GROUPS, not rock. kim wilde has yet to do anything that heavy.

 

busted, mc fly, werent rock, they may have mimicked rock manerisms but so have pop groups throughout history! they were pop... watertwats 'music' wasnt pop...it was c**p. music at its lowest level.

 

I think fans of rock music in 1981 would take exception to anyone calling Kim Wilde rock though. That's just where the zeitgeist was at - punk music had crossed over and pop music had taken a cue from it. In the same way that we have arguments over whether The Hoosiers are indie today.

 

I'd say Kim Wilde's sound was to 1981 what Girls Aloud's sound is today. Not bubblegum, but still very much pop.

I think fans of rock music in 1981 would take exception to anyone calling Kim Wilde rock though. That's just where the zeitgeist was at - punk music had crossed over and pop music had taken a cue from it. In the same way that we have arguments over whether The Hoosiers are indie today.

 

I'd say Kim Wilde's sound was to 1981 what Girls Aloud's sound is today. Not bubblegum, but still very much pop.

 

spot on.... and a very good comparison too :)

I think fans of rock music in 1981 would take exception to anyone calling Kim Wilde rock though. That's just where the zeitgeist was at - punk music had crossed over and pop music had taken a cue from it. In the same way that we have arguments over whether The Hoosiers are indie today.

 

I'd say Kim Wilde's sound was to 1981 what Girls Aloud's sound is today. Not bubblegum, but still very much pop.

 

I agree that is a great analogy.

 

While I think Rob is spot on about how Pete Waterman ruined changed the definition of what pop music was in the late 1980s that did not really change until (forget Busted & McFly) the late 1990s when pop hits like these appeared in the aftermath of Britpop:

 

Robbie Williams - Old Before I Die

 

Melanie C - Goin' Down (aka the Kevin Keegan Magpies 2008 theme tune :lol:)

I agree that is a great analogy.

 

While I think Rob is spot on about how Pete Waterman ruined changed the definition of what pop music was in the late 1980s that did not really change until (forget Busted & McFly) the late 1990s when pop hits like these appeared in the aftermath of Britpop:

 

Robbie Williams - Old Before I Die

 

Melanie C - Goin' Down (aka the Kevin Keegan Magpies 2008 theme tune :lol:)

 

true.. but theres always been the occassional 'heavy' sound around... i cite busted as the ones that changed the flavour of pop music because they were a traditional pop group and had a huge teenage girl following... much as the beatles, slade, trex etc had..

 

busteds success made guitar pop fashionable amongst the young and paved the way for the current 'indie' scene to flourish. they caught the imagination of the young who soon turned their heads to 'better' music. evanescence and the rasmus (bring me to life & in the shadows) had huge success as 'bustedettes' who soon grew up turned to a 'new' look..

 

i know several local kids who have followed this route..

true.. but theres always been the occassional 'heavy' sound around... i cite busted as the ones that changed the flavour of pop music because they were a traditional pop group and had a huge teenage girl following... much as the beatles, slade, trex etc had..

 

busteds success made guitar pop fashionable amongst the young and paved the way for the current 'indie' scene to flourish. they caught the imagination of the young who soon turned their heads to 'better' music. evanescence and the rasmus (bring me to life & in the shadows) had huge success as 'bustedettes' who soon grew up turned to a 'new' look..

 

i know several local kids who have followed this route..

 

You are giving Busted & Mcfly, way way way too much credit than they deserve.

 

Give credit where it is due, Robbie Williams was doing that years earlier before Busted & McFly were out of school:

 

Don't you remember the outrage amongst the NME & its readers when "the fat dancer out of Take That" was booked for Glastonbury by Michael Eavis. With many music critics predicting he'd get bottled off the stage.

 

Well look what happened, probably the most defining set since Queen played Live Aid & a star was born and the rest is history:

 

Robbie Williams - Angels (Live at Glastonbury)

Ridiculous calling Kim Wilde rock :manson:

 

Did she appear at places like Reading Rock Festival and Donnington Monsters Of Rock ? did Tommy Vance play her music on the Friday Rock Show ? did she ever appear as a warm up act to the likes of AC/DC, Rainbow, Scorpions, Saxon and so on ?

 

NO on all counts

 

She was a POP singer

You are giving Busted & Mcfly, way way way too much credit than they deserve.

 

Give credit where it is due, Robbie Williams was doing that years earlier before Busted & McFly were out of school:

 

Don't you remember the outrage amongst the NME & its readers when "the fat dancer out of Take That" was booked for Glastonbury by Michael Eavis. With many music critics predicting he'd get bottled off the stage.

 

Well look what happened, probably the most defining set since Queen played Live Aid & a star was born and the rest is history:

 

Robbie Williams - Angels (Live at Glastonbury)

 

but robbie was the previous generations 'blue eyed boy', and he didnt inspire nor create the groundwork for todays indie kids. i know, because i know plenty of teens who are now into rock/indie who started out when younger as busted fans. it was a natural progression from a 12/13 year old discovering pop music (and busted DID do good lively gigs... they had fun!) who are now wandering around as 17 /18 year old 'indie kids', and have little or no interest in robbie!

 

robbie wasnt really dooing it anyway.. he was a singer, not a pop group. robbies fanbase is older.

 

 

but robbie was the previous generations 'blue eyed boy', and he didnt inspire nor create the groundwork for todays indie kids. i know, because i know plenty of teens who are now into rock/indie who started out when younger as busted fans. it was a natural progression from a 12/13 year old discovering pop music (and busted DID do good lively gigs... they had fun!) who are now wandering around as 17 /18 year old 'indie kids', and have little or no interest in robbie!

 

robbie wasnt really dooing it anyway.. he was a singer, not a pop group. robbies fanbase is older.

 

I disagree.

 

Did Busted or McFly ever play the music festivals like the V Festival, Glastonbury, etc? The answer is No.

 

Yet the likes of Robbie Williams & Mel C DID play these festivals in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

 

Hence, Robbie & Mel C went after the same indie audience that was going to see Oasis, the Verve, Blur, Supergrass, Ash, Manic Street Preachers, Charlatans, etc. Whilst Busted & Mcfly were just pop acts with guitars, the indie generation wanted nothing to do with them because they saw right through them for what they were = Manufactured Pop Acts (albeit ones who could write their own material & play their own instruments).

 

Your comment with regards Busted & Mcfly are about as ridiculous as saying that the massively inferior Avril Lavigne or Kelly Clarkson turned more US teenagers onto alternative rock music in America than Alanis Morrissette. Or saying that Tori Amos is responsible for influencing all these ethereal female artists today like Feist, Alison Goldfrapp, Bats For Lashes, etc instead of Kate Bush.

I disagree.

 

Did Busted or McFly ever play the music festivals like the V Festival, Glastonbury, etc? The answer is No.

 

Yet the likes of Robbie Williams & Mel C DID play these festivals in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

 

Hence, Robbie & Mel C went after the same indie audience that was going to see Oasis, the Verve, Blur, Supergrass, Ash, Manic Street Preachers, Charlatans, etc. Whilst Busted & Mcfly were just pop acts with guitars, the indie generation wanted nothing to do with them because they saw right through them for what they were = Manufactured Pop Acts (albeit ones who could write their own material & play their own instruments).

 

Your comment with regards Busted & Mcfly are about as ridiculous as saying that the massively inferior Avril Lavigne or Kelly Clarkson turned more US teenagers onto alternative rock music in America than Alanis Morrissette. Or saying that Tori Amos is responsible for influencing all these ethereal female artists today like Feist, Alison Goldfrapp, Bats For Lashes, etc instead of Kate Bush.

 

but that audience were still at school whilst robbie and mel c were playing the festivals! ... its a generation thing. busted, avril DID capture a whole NEW generation... im telling you this because i know many who have followed this progression. in 02 there wasnt many young teens 12-14 who were into robbie nor melc, busted and avril captured the new generation... making guitar pop popular with the young. those 12-14 year olds are now 18-20 year olds who are into 'indie' , its their music, they dont know of or care about alanis morrisette, tori amos, or even kate bush! it aint their generation.

 

i joined totp music boards in 02, became active more in 03-4, when that closed down many of us went onto a private site... including grimly and kate (la la land). ive seen the transition from young people who first liked busted, getting into evenescence and the rasmus, and onward to embrace indie and rock.

 

so it matters not what went before this generation got into music... busted/lavigne was the catalyst for a whole new generation of music fans to adopt a new identity, and it was this popularity that created the market for the current 'indie' trend, it had nothing to do with robbie or melc... (whos rubbish anyway) (mel c... robbies cool).

 

 

but that audience were still at school whilst robbie and mel c were playing the festivals! ... its a generation thing. busted, avril DID capture a whole NEW generation... im telling you this because i know many who have followed this progression. in 02 there wasnt many young teens 12-14 who were into robbie nor melc, busted and avril captured the new generation... making guitar pop popular with the young. those 12-14 year olds are now 18-20 year olds who are into 'indie' , its their music, they dont know of or care about alanis morrisette, tori amos, or even kate bush! it aint their generation.

 

i joined totp music boards in 02, became active more in 03-4, when that closed down many of us went onto a private site... including grimly and kate (la la land). ive seen the transition from young people who first liked busted, getting into evenescence and the rasmus, and onward to embrace indie and rock.

 

so it matters not what went before this generation got into music... busted/lavigne was the catalyst for a whole new generation of music fans to adopt a new identity, and it was this popularity that created the market for the current 'indie' trend, it had nothing to do with robbie or melc... (whos rubbish anyway) (mel c... robbies cool).

 

:rofl:

 

You are having a laugh aren't you? That is amongst the biggest load of rubbish I have read for quite a while.

 

Busted like Mcfly were formed from auditions held by failed 1980s pop star John McLoughlin in 2001.

 

They were nothing more than an teen pop-lite rip off of bands like Good Charlotte, Sum 41, Green Day, Bowling For Soup, Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance, etc. All of the above acts were having massive success certainly in America

 

In the same way that Avril Lavigne ripped off the blue print of an artist who had sold 40 million albums (Alanis Morissette) and also acts with female rock singers like Evanescence, Within Temptation & No Doubt (check out their 2000 album Return Of Saturn which Avril has based her career on).

 

Sorry, what you are saying is the equivalent of saying Bon Jovi are more influential on Hard Rock Music today than Led Zeppelin. Or the Bay City Rollers have a bigger influence of UK popular music than the Sex Pistols.

 

As for Busted & Mcfly's glittering career, well silly me I must have been asleep whilst Matt Wills was having all those solo number one hit singles & winning all those BRIT awards because of his massive fanbase that followed him after Busted imploded. Whilst the list of the 60 Best Selling albums of the 21st Century must be wrong because it is missing all of those "massive" selling Mcfly albums. Still there are plenty of Robbie Williams albums on the list, but that must be a mistake. :lol:

 

In short the likes of Busted, Mcfly & Avril are not that influential, because 1) They were not that big; 2) The other edgier, more authentic rock acts that I've listed were around at the same time and were/are a damn sight more influential.

:rofl:

 

You are having a laugh aren't you? That is amongst the biggest load of rubbish I have read for quite a while.

 

Busted like Mcfly were formed from auditions held by failed 1980s pop star John McLoughlin in 2001.

 

They were nothing more than an teen pop-lite rip off of bands like Good Charlotte, Sum 41, Green Day, Bowling For Soup, Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance, etc. All of the above acts were having massive success certainly in America

 

In the same way that Avril Lavigne ripped off the blue print of an artist who had sold 40 million albums (Alanis Morissette) and also acts with female rock singers like Evanescence, Within Temptation & No Doubt (check out their 2000 album Return Of Saturn which Avril has based her career on).

 

Sorry, what you are saying is the equivalent of saying Bon Jovi are more influential on Hard Rock Music today than Led Zeppelin. Or the Bay City Rollers have a bigger influence of UK popular music than the Sex Pistols.

 

As for Busted & Mcfly's glittering career, well silly me I must have been asleep whilst Matt Wills was having all those solo number one hit singles & winning all those BRIT awards because of his massive fanbase that followed him after Busted imploded. Whilst the list of the 60 Best Selling albums of the 21st Century must be wrong because it is missing all of those "massive" selling Mcfly albums. Still there are plenty of Robbie Williams albums on the list, but that must be a mistake. :lol:

 

In short the likes of Busted, Mcfly & Avril are not that influential, because 1) They were not that big; 2) The other edgier, more authentic rock acts that I've listed were around at the same time and were/are a damn sight more influential.

 

no need to be rude :angry:

 

you are clearly not listening to what im saying, and i have the evidence that what im TELLING you is fact.

 

let me try again.

 

historically, everytime a new 'sound' becomes fashionable it does so on the back of some catalyst that appeals to a WHOLE NEW generation.

 

the beatles were the first to do this... some folks (like grimly) dont particually rate the beatles themselves but like what they did for music.. same with the sex pistols, i KNOW many of my generation who dont like much the pistols music, but like the fact that they were the catalyst to open new doors for new groups/sounds.

 

it matters not wether busted, mcfly, avril, were 'manufactured' or not, the fact is that they as a musical product (and they were infinately more talented then 99% of other manufactured acts, i remember seeing avril and madonna on totp... the queen of pop mimed, avril performed LIVE).

 

the point is that they appealed to a NEW GENERATION , just like the beatles did, just like the pistols did, (and in that the comparison ends). guitar pop wasnt in fashion since the early 80's to -16 year olds UNTIL busted and avril came along and appealed to them. now most busted fans soon grew up and having a taste for guitar pop explored more adult material. when the market was there for business to exploit it took advantage and guitar groups and 'indie' fashions took off.

 

im NOT saying that every 'indie kid' was a busted fan, BUT I KNOW SEVERAL WHO WERE. once guitar pop was back in fashion, like ME, i might not have liked busteds material, but i applaud the fact that guitar pop was back in fashion!!!

 

was credit awarded to busted?.... well.... after 20 odd years of other guitar fads FAILING to be anything other then a brief fad, and not capturing a generation, 'indie' now has.

 

i KNOW how influencial busted, mc fly, and lavigne were to young teens 6 years ago... because i KNOW them, ive talked to them both online (in music forums) and in real life... i have kids! i have clare! i have nephews/nieces, i know local kids, i work in schools! so to call my take on the situation 'the biggest load of rubbish' is utterly incorrect! for once YOU are wrong... i have no idea who you are, what you do, what family you have, but i KNOW what has influenced alot of teens, wether it was busted themselves or the guitar groups that followed in their wake after seeing that theres a market.

 

you cant compare them though with long established artists who of course in the ADULT world has sold millions, why? well because busted etc are a new, niche market. and no im not saying that musically they are 'up there', they arnt, its simply this.... the legacy of busted/lavigne is that they brought guitar pop back to 'da kidz', under 16's were fed s club, steps, spice girls, westlife, ronan, or even worse, the cartoons, fast food rockers... busted /lavigne broke that mould either by accident or design (in a marketing kinda way) ... like i said, pre busted you had to go a very long way back in time before guitar pop was fashionable with 'kids'.

 

 

.. i must clarify that i didnt mean that musically busted were influencial, but they were on a narrow generation of kids, and good for them! (manufactured or not, gimmie a guitar group bashing hell out of drums and thrashing their guitars whilst performing their own material AND having fun is IMHO what pop should be about.... not miming over someone elses material to computerised instrumentation.... ive often argued that all the likes of rachel stevens brings to the 'rachel stevens product' is her name! :lol: )