.. i must clarify that i didnt mean that musically busted were influencial, but they were on a narrow generation of kids, and good for them! (manufactured or not, gimmie a guitar group bashing hell out of drums and thrashing their guitars whilst performing their own material AND having fun is IMHO what pop should be about.... not miming over someone elses material to computerised instrumentation.... ive often argued that all the likes of rachel stevens brings to the 'rachel stevens product' is her name! :lol: )

 

Now that I do agree with. :lol:

I think fans of rock music in 1981 would take exception to anyone calling Kim Wilde rock though. That's just where the zeitgeist was at - punk music had crossed over and pop music had taken a cue from it. In the same way that we have arguments over whether The Hoosiers are indie today.

 

well i guess it not about what the song sounds like (whether pop equals a record thats an upbeat singalongaradiotrack that goes verse chorus verse) but also to do with demographics, style of the vocalist and fashions associated with it and also the pretentiousness of the band, auds and the journos who have dreamt up the scene

 

- is it a pop record because its fizzy POP! or is it a pop record becuase it is popular.

 

on the other hand there is the thought that its is all pop music - because its not a form of' higher musical art' like jazz or classical - and not worth sub-divding when another urban tribe develops

 

tho think BBC Four's Paul Morley could be right and saying that the greatest pop record of the 1980's if not of all time was the smiths

 

Not bubblegum, but still very much pop.

 

 

 

I'd say Kim Wilde's sound was to 1981 what Girls Aloud's sound is today.

 

yeah that comparision been said a few times before about Kim Wilde / Girls Aloud - esp with Nadine and Kimberley

 

however i i thought theaudience and Dimestars were mmore similar.

 

http://rocksnob.com/images/theaudiencemembers5.jpg

 

http://roxannewilde.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/dimeheader.jpg.w300h83.jpg

 

http://roxannewilde.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/wilderox.jpeg

I agree with what myshymanrob said butmi have to point out that back in 1997 they're used to be a guitar po band who had a masssive hit with

"Mmbop" 3 blond long haired teenagers and that was waay before busted,mcfly & avril.

 

And yes im talking about the Hansons who wrote,played& sang their own material.But got no repect or recognition until they went indie.

Kim Wilde is definitely Pop, end of, I should coco, when I was a big fan of her in the early 80s, and had a huge crash on her, I had a dream when I was young that I was going to marry her. :lol: :wub:

Kim Wilde is definitely Pop, end of, I should coco, when I was a big fan of her in the early 80s, and had a huge crash on her, I had a dream when I was young that I was going to marry her. :lol: :wub:

 

 

And do you still have those dreams Martin? :wub:

And do you still have those dreams Martin? :wub:

 

Unfortunately I'm taken now :cry:

 

Unfortunately I'm taken now :cry:

 

Oh well, maybe you will get married to her in your dreams. :yahoo:

 

Kim Wilde is definitely Pop, end of, I should coco, when I was a big fan of her in the early 80s, and had a huge crash on her, I had a dream when I was young that I was going to marry her. :lol: :wub:

 

How about Supergrass then :lol: (no doubt to be seen at some random festival with madness and the stranglers this year :lol: )

 

you have unwittingly highlighted my point! :lol:

 

'pop' wasnt invented as a genre by watertwat in the mid 80's... it had been the label of choice for over 25 years and encompassed a wide variety of sounds.

 

'rock' isnt the use of guitars and volume in a track... since merseybeat in 63-4 electric guitars were the staple instrument in pop songs, kim wilde has done NOTHING that can be considered 'rock'.

 

i blame watertwat for the confusion in todays music world. his pwl sound was sold to a new generation of (post punk) kids and guitar pop was out of fashion. from the late 80's until the early 00's guitar pop (britpop for eg) was largely seen as 'indie' whilst 'pop' refered to watertwats production line bollox. when BUSTED, yes busted! formed and made guitar pop, pop groups, fashionable again amongst the young did the confusion become apparent. busted were a good old fashioned pop group... like the kinks, beatles, stones, slade, trex, sweet, etc etc.. THEY were always refered to as POP GROUPS, not rock. kim wilde has yet to do anything that heavy.

 

busted, mc fly, werent rock, they may have mimicked rock manerisms but so have pop groups throughout history! they were pop... watertwats 'music' wasnt pop...it was c**p. music at its lowest level.

 

well even tho i could agree that Waterman's music was not pop - can anyone realy define what is meant by pop - you could say only acts that sound like the monkeys are pop* - meaning that 95% of boybands (and brother beyond!!! :lol: ) are put under soul and r&b with bobby brown, bell biv devoe, Ralph Tresvant and Johnny Gill with Westlife being listed in the easy MOR section with Johnny Logan.

 

but with Pete Waterman it was big gay Hi-NRG disco and boystown eurobeat that he was watermaning down and making commercial

 

and notice how Kylie is being referred to as a disco singer rather than a pop singer these days - i guess being nearly 40 means your not pop anymore :lol:

 

MAN TO MAN - Energy Is Eurobeat

 

 

and imo electronic music gets a harsh deal

 

* Arctic + Nesmith Jones Dolenz & Tork :lol:

 

 

manufactured or not, gimmie a guitar group bashing hell out of drums and thrashing their guitars whilst performing their own material AND having fun is IMHO what pop should be about.... not miming over someone elses material to computerised instrumentation.... ive often argued that all the likes of rachel stevens brings to the 'rachel stevens product' is her name! :lol:

 

so what the rachel stevens product is a good product - even tho you can pick this brand up for about £2.99 in your local co-op now :lol:

 

btw talking of s club. i think Automatic High is one of the most underated pop songs ever - normally getting into the awful lists because its performed not by the proper S Club 7 - but a bunch of pesky kids (to paraphrase scooby doo :lol: )

 

now if it was sung by someone like Terry Hall (because of all the associations that goes with Ghost Town) it would be probs be seen as a lost [pre-britpop] britpop classic

 

tho if they ever make another brady bunch movie.... :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

S Club 8 and Terry Hall

 

and also remember the disco stylings of One Step Closer!!! - yeah the video might be very cheesy - but does remind you of the point of the late 1970s commercialization of disco and its good that DFA / Andrew Butler are around to reclaim disco's significance!!!

How about Supergrass then :lol: (no doubt to be seen at some random festival with madness and the stranglers this year :lol: )

well even tho i could agree that Waterman's music was not pop - can anyone realy define what is meant by pop - you could say only acts that sound like the monkeys are pop* - meaning that 95% of boybands (and brother beyond!!! :lol: ) are put under soul and r&b with bobby brown, bell biv devoe, Ralph Tresvant and Johnny Gill with Westlife being listed in the easy MOR section with Johnny Logan.

 

but with Pete Waterman it was big gay Hi-NRG disco and boystown eurobeat that he was watermaning down and making commercial

 

and notice how Kylie is being referred to as a disco singer rather than a pop singer these days - i guess being nearly 40 means your not pop anymore :lol:

 

MAN TO MAN - Energy Is Eurobeat

 

 

and imo electronic music gets a harsh deal

 

* Arctic + Nesmith Jones Dolenz & Tork :lol:

so what the rachel stevens product is a good product - even tho you can pick this brand up for about £2.99 in your local co-op now :lol:

 

btw talking of s club. i think Automatic High is one of the most underated pop songs ever - normally getting into the awful lists because its performed not by the proper S Club 7 - but a bunch of pesky kids (to paraphrase scooby doo :lol: )

 

now if it was sung by someone like Terry Hall (because of all the associations that goes with Ghost Town) it would be probs be seen as a lost [pre-britpop] britpop classic

 

tho if they ever make another brady bunch movie.... :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

S Club 8 and Terry Hall

 

and also remember the disco stylings of One Step Closer!!! - yeah the video might be very cheesy - but does remind you of the point of the late 1970s commercialization of disco and its good that DFA / Andrew Butler are around to reclaim disco's significance!!!

 

 

actually you arew right.... scj/8 did have some good material and would have been regarded as classics if a 'proper' artist had sung them... however... they AINT RETRO! :P

I agree with what myshymanrob said butmi have to point out that back in 1997 they're used to be a guitar po band who had a masssive hit with

"Mmbop" 3 blond long haired teenagers and that was waay before busted,mcfly & avril.

 

And yes im talking about the Hansons who wrote,played& sang their own material.But got no repect or recognition until they went indie.

 

but the point is that hanson and others, were only a fad. hanson failed to change the attitude of a young generation, busted did.

but the point is that hanson and others, were only a fad. hanson failed to change the attitude of a young generation, busted did.

 

its hard to say about hanson - as they changed to a 'mature' style away to something only the usa gets.

 

as even tho mmmbop is one of the great psuedo-motown pop records of all time (well just better than c'est la vie - must be largely thanks to the dust brothers) they seemed to be getting into not only the territiory encompassing the fray (with go) but that kinda awful boogiewoogie american travelling vibe - you know the kinda act that people in the uk will never get except in the instance of a cherry garcia or phish food ben and jerrys ice-cream - kinda of dave matthews band / relix magazine cd lite.

 

actually you arew right.... scj/8 did have some good material and would have been regarded as classics if a 'proper' artist had sung them... however... they AINT RETRO! :P

 

but Terry Hall's Ultra Modern Nursery Rhymes most def is - and the guilty pleasures tv show would benefit greatly from a Hall/Broudie version of Barbie Girl done in a Getz/Gilberto bossa style circa 1964...

 

 

...with baddiel and skinner on vibes and theramin???

 

 

(also c'est la vie would be reguarded a great as well if it wasnt so oirish-chipmunk dont you think???)

erhm is kim wilde rock or pop??? how come some says she's one of the biggest selling rock chicks in the uk???

 

"Kids In America" is rock right??? & "Cambodia" is rock right???

 

can she be considered punk??? well in the beginning of her career back in 1981??

 

didn't she go pop later in her carrer???

 

so what category can yall put her in???

sorry for asking soo many questions but i've always been confused where to categoraize her music

some people says she's punk/pop/rock is that right???

>> pop posing as (soft) rock

^_^

I think fans of rock music in 1981 would take exception to anyone calling Kim Wilde rock though. That's just where the zeitgeist was at - punk music had crossed over and pop music had taken a cue from it. In the same way that we have arguments over whether The Hoosiers are indie today.

 

I'd say Kim Wilde's sound was to 1981 what Girls Aloud's sound is today. Not bubblegum, but still very much pop.

meh, I respectfully disagree.

 

There are very obvious rock elements to her albums from 81-85, I would never say she was the Girls Aloud type of sound from back then. Have you even heard the "Teases and Dares" album? Granted there is heavy synths on the album, the guitar dominance is quite obvious too. That isn't really a straight "pop" album imho. I hate when people don't acknowledge that rock is multi-faceted and not just one straight genre.

Edited March 4, 200817 yr by lolhey

meh, I respectfully disagree.

 

There are very obvious rock elements to her albums from 81-85, I would never say she was the Girls Aloud type of sound from back then. Have you even heard the "Teases and Dares" album? Granted there is heavy synths on the album, the guitar dominance is quite obvious too. That isn't really a straight "pop" album imho. I hate when people don't acknowledge that rock is multi-faceted and not just one straight genre.

 

yes it was!.... the 'rock' sound was prevailant in pop ever since the mid 60's... pop in the 60's 70's and into the 80's was heavily rock influenced and the difference between pop and rock was nowhere near as difined as it is nowdays. the point being that pop back then was 'soft rock'.

 

oh and i hate it when people dont acknowlege that POP is multi-faceted and NOT one straight style of sound/genre.

 

dunno how old you are/were, i see your from america.. but here in the uk she was NEVER regarded as 'rock' in the slightest.

yes it was!.... the 'rock' sound was prevailant in pop ever since the mid 60's... pop in the 60's 70's and into the 80's was heavily rock influenced and the difference between pop and rock was nowhere near as difined as it is nowdays. the point being that pop back then was 'soft rock'.

 

oh and i hate it when people dont acknowlege that POP is multi-faceted and NOT one straight style of sound/genre.

 

dunno how old you are/were, i see your from america.. but here in the uk she was NEVER regarded as 'rock' in the slightest.

rofl, first of all I realize that there is more than one pop sound. I never said she was a "rocker" I said some of her music had rock/pop influence. I said her earlier albums had more of a rock driven sound with a mix of pop. I can quote that if you want btw. I never said she was regarded as a rock artists lol, she was considered bubblegum pop. I'm 22, but I am familiar with her albums from then, seeing how I have them on vinyl. I still think she was less "pop" for those years, but its a PERSONAL opinion.. I never stated it as a truth :]

Edited March 4, 200817 yr by lolhey

rofl, first of all I realize that there is more than one pop sound. I never said she was a "rocker" I said some of her music had rock/pop influence. I said her earlier albums had more of a rock driven sound with a mix of pop. I can quote that if you want btw. I never said she was regarded as a rock artists lol, she was considered bubblegum pop. I'm 22, but I am familiar with her albums from then, seeing how I have them on vinyl. I still think she was less "pop" for those years, but its a PERSONAL opinion.. I never stated it as a truth :]

 

... but pop music at the time WAS largely rock driven, so kim wilde was nothing special.

 

hmm... but stating it as a personal opinion doesnt make it true! what i mean is this... she was what she was, (pretty good imho) but i have a BIG problem with todays youth mis-reprisenting the past, MY past, by interpreting things incorrectly, thus altering the truth of what the past was like. kim wilde was pop, thats a fact.

... but pop music at the time WAS largely rock driven, so kim wilde was nothing special.

 

hmm... but stating it as a personal opinion doesnt make it true! what i mean is this... she was what she was, (pretty good imho) but i have a BIG problem with todays youth mis-reprisenting the past, MY past, by interpreting things incorrectly, thus altering the truth of what the past was like. kim wilde was pop, thats a fact.

 

I agree.

 

I don't know how anyone on the planet can describe Kim Wilde as Rock music. She was as pop as you can come for 1981. (It would be like in 15 years time someone on the internet claiming Billie Piper was BritPop ... and waits in vain for someone to get the connection between Kim Wilde & Billie Piper :lol:):

 

Kim Wilde - Cambodia (1981 UK#4)

 

Especially in comparison to these female singers who could be described as Rock:

 

Pat Benatar - Hit Me With Your Best Shot (1981 US#9)

 

Kim Carnes - Bette Davis Eyes (1981 US#1)

 

Stevie Nicks - Edge Of Seventeen (1981 US#11)

 

Joan Jett & the Blackhearts - I Love Rock'n'Roll (1982 US#1/UK#2)

 

 

...... or compared to Rock music at it's most artistic & progressive sounding....

 

Kate Bush - Sat In Your Lap (1981 UK#11)

 

>> pop posing as (soft) rock

^_^

 

however i want to know where does soft rock end and pop start

 

btw i was reading a thing about music in scandinavia and they said they call this type of thing 'pop rocky' (like Roxette* i guess0 - that like a great expression innit. pop rocky!!!

 

 

*who as airplay is concerned seem to be superceeded by Kajagoogoo on the hits last week

 

... but pop music at the time WAS largely rock driven, so kim wilde was nothing special.

 

hmm... but stating it as a personal opinion doesnt make it true! what i mean is this... she was what she was, (pretty good imho) but i have a BIG problem with todays youth mis-reprisenting the past, MY past, by interpreting things incorrectly, thus altering the truth of what the past was like. kim wilde was pop, thats a fact.

 

but if she released an album now would be probably be classed as 'mum rock' (well if Roxy is almost 30 and she's too old for 8 year old to be intersted in - god help the singing gardener get the pop auds these days)

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertai...ion-786845.html

 

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l303/AlistairM_2006/Roxanne6crop.jpg

 

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=79530977

 

i think a comparison with Molly Ure's faders could be good here - bit pop rocky as well

 

... but pop music at the time WAS largely rock driven, so kim wilde was nothing special.

 

hmm... but stating it as a personal opinion doesnt make it true! what i mean is this... she was what she was, (pretty good imho) but i have a BIG problem with todays youth mis-reprisenting the past, MY past, by interpreting things incorrectly, thus altering the truth of what the past was like. kim wilde was pop, thats a fact.

rofl this is a forum board to state an opinion and that is exactly what I did. Tell me where I said it was a truth? You can't police my opinion. What you're saying isn't changing my mind, really you can get off your soap box. I'll stick with my opinion and you can stick with yours. I never even said she was rock, I said she had rock elements to her music. I never said she was stright up rock. And sorry you feel that way, but lol honestly I don't care. I never dismissed she was still pop though, but of course you're too hardheaded to bring that point up.

rofl this is a forum board to state an opinion and that is exactly what I did. Tell me where I said it was a truth? You can't police my opinion. What you're saying isn't changing my mind, really you can get off your soap box. I'll stick with my opinion and you can stick with yours. I never even said she was rock, I said she had rock elements to her music. I never said she was stright up rock. And sorry you feel that way, but lol honestly I don't care. I never dismissed she was still pop though, but of course you're too hardheaded to bring that point up.

 

yes i will be 'hard headed' as you put it... because the facts are the facts and just because some kid has an 'opinion' it doesnt make it the truth! i... WE ... are dealing with how things were. christ what would become of history if every generation made up its own mind over what went on?... it was acknowleged that pop at the time WAS by default full of 'rock' elements... so i really dont know why you bother to drag this up.