Oh dear. Must we have another ill-educated thread? :manson:

Oh dear. Must we have another ill-educated thread? :manson:

 

What's your opinion on it though? Because I do object to the whole "it's all politics / everyone hates the UK" argument, but I think alot of people on this forum sugarcoat it all and act like friendly voting is alot less of an issue than it is.

Edited March 3, 200817 yr by Peter30

What's your opinion on it though? Because I do object to the whole "it's all politics / everyone hates the UK" argument, but I think alot of people on this forum sugarcoat it all and act like friendly voting is alot less of an issue than it is.

Oh I get tired of saying it now. :lol: Haha. In my opinion, which I believe to be right, the only politics that exists in the ESC is the Cyprus/Greece/Turkey voting/not voting for each other. The only reason we've done bad since 2003 is because our songs have been dire/not suited to the Eurovision. Israel are a far more hated country than us and they came fifth or something in 2005 didn't they!

 

However, neighbourly voting does exist. At the end of the day, Slovenia will vote for Serbia/Croatia/Macedonia and the rest regardless of the song they send. Diaspora voting is another big problem - Turkey and Armenia will be receiving votes from France, Belgium and the Netherlands for many years to come! :arrr:

 

But no, it's not political. Why SHOULD people hate us anyway? Because we're fighting a war on terror? :manson:

But no, it's not political. Why SHOULD people hate us anyway? Because we're fighting a war on terror? :manson:

 

Fair enough, yes I agree with that. People saying that it's politics is clutching at straws to the extreme!

 

But I don't think that neighbourly voting is just incidental. It does have a negative effect on countries with not so many neighbours, and I'm not saying that applies to the UK because our entries have been terrible.

 

But countries like Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, France, Spain and Austria have all lost out with good songs at least partially because of it.

Yeah, neighbourly voting does definately have an affect on the scoreboard. It affects the countries in the middle of the scoreboard imo - Portugal last year for example. The only time I can think of neighbourly voting altering the winner in 2002 though!

Yeah, neighbourly voting does definately have an affect on the scoreboard. It affects the countries in the middle of the scoreboard imo - Portugal last year for example. The only time I can think of neighbourly voting altering the winner in 2002 though!

 

It doesn't just affect one part of the scoreboard though. Mathematically that doesn't make any sense.

 

Also, believe it or not, if you subtract neighbourly voting, Turkey wouldn't have won in 2003, nor Greece in 2005, despite the fact they were both good songs, and possibly not Serbia last year, but that one depends how you do the maths I suppose.

 

As for your point about Latvia in 2002, it only takes one example to prove that neighbourly voting CAN affect the winner, which is just not on.

Edited March 3, 200817 yr by Peter30

The United Kingdom are suprerior, wahahahahahaha.

 

But no, seriously. We'll win WHEN we send something decent. *hands up for anyone who wants to send in Leona Lewis :heehee: *

We could finish top 10 anytime, if only we sent a good act to represent us, none have been good since Gina G really, lol

I say let Katie Price do it again next year.... :lol: :D

There are 43 countries participating. No need for the UK to get angry because they have not won for 10 years. It took Finland about 40 years to win and it is taking Portugal even longer. They don't seem to complain.

 

It could take about another 35 years for the UK not to win and there being statistically nothing unusual about it.

Edited March 4, 200817 yr by Esmerelda

It is getting so much harder to any country to win since the number of participants are growing so quickly and will break 50 in a few years. So when UK was doing well there were way better chances since less countries participated. Also UK had a bit of an advantage by the fact that they were able to sing in English and now that has been gone for a decade also. But, nevertheless, UK can still win the contest with the right song, just like any other country. Having said that, there definately are countries that are more likely to win than others. Small Eastern European countries do have advantage over Western countries since being under the Soviet rule for so long they share a stronger bond than Western European countries. Also they have way more neighbouring countries than, for example, UK has, and thirdly they have large populations living in Western Europe (no doubt Serbia won last year mainly thanks to diaspora voting - the Western countries with largest Serbian populations did award it the highest marks).

 

Another country to have an advantage every year is Turkey. 12 points from Germany no matter what kinda rubbish they send every year. And since there are large Turkish populations in almost every Western European country, Turkey will do well every year even with a bad song.

 

The last one with the biggest advantage of all is Russia. I really cannot see Russia failing to get into top 5 anytime soon and I'd say Russia is the most likely country to win every year even before any songs have been selected. They'll have huge advantage from both diaspora voting and neighbourly voting and that will be enough for top five.

 

So, Western European countries do have a clear disadvantage over the Eastern European countries thanks to immigration and diaspora voting but with a good song the contest still can be won by a Western European country, just like Finland won two years ago.

Edited March 4, 200817 yr by JackJones

It is getting so much harder to any country to win since the number of participants are growing so quickly and will break 50 in a few years. So when UK was doing well there were way better chances since less countries participated. Also UK had a bit of an advantage by the fact that they were able to sing in English and now that has been gone for a decade also. But, nevertheless, UK can still win the contest with the right song, just like any other country. Having said that, there definately are countries that are more likely to win than others. Small Eastern European countries do have advantage over Western countries since being under the Soviet rule for so long they share a stronger bond than Western European countries. Also they have way more neighbouring countries than, for example, UK has, and thirdly they have large populations living in Western Europe (no doubt Serbia won last year mainly thanks to diaspora voting - the Western countries with largest Serbian populations did award it the highest marks).

 

Another country to have an advantage every year is Turkey. 12 points from Germany no matter what kinda rubbish they send every year. And since there are large Turkish populations in almost every Western European country, Turkey will do well every year even with a bad song.

 

The last one with the biggest advantage of all is Russia. I really cannot see Russia failing to get into top 5 anytime soon and I'd say Russia is the most likely country to win every year even before any songs have been selected. They'll have huge advantage from both diaspora voting and neighbourly voting and that will be enough for top five.

 

So, Western European countries do have a clear disadvantage over the Eastern European countries thanks to immigration and diaspora voting but with a good song the contest still can be won by a Western European country, just like Finland won two years ago.

 

You've hit the nail right on the head there.

We could finish top 10 anytime, if only we sent a good act to represent us, none have been good since Gina G really, lol

 

Not even Katrina and the Waves in 1997? Until the new voting style came in, that had the most points of any winning song (227).

I usually like the uk entries but this year is terrible and i cant see it doing well at all

Its all too political! I bet even if we had Elvis Presley singing for us we would struggle to finish in the top 20!

 

elvis was american .... :P

Oh I get tired of saying it now. :lol: Haha. In my opinion, which I believe to be right, the only politics that exists in the ESC is the Cyprus/Greece/Turkey voting/not voting for each other. The only reason we've done bad since 2003 is because our songs have been dire/not suited to the Eurovision. Israel are a far more hated country than us and they came fifth or something in 2005 didn't they!

 

However, neighbourly voting does exist. At the end of the day, Slovenia will vote for Serbia/Croatia/Macedonia and the rest regardless of the song they send. Diaspora voting is another big problem - Turkey and Armenia will be receiving votes from France, Belgium and the Netherlands for many years to come! :arrr:

 

But no, it's not political. Why SHOULD people hate us anyway? Because we're fighting a war on terror? :manson:

 

agreed.... hasnt anybody sussed that neighbouring countries seem to vote for eachother MAYBE because they have the same musical tastes?...

agreed.... hasnt anybody sussed that neighbouring countries seem to vote for eachother MAYBE because they have the same musical tastes?...

 

That would be a valid argument if the songs reflected the countries' national music traditions which often is not the case.

 

REGARDLESS of the reasons they vote for each other though, it still gives an unfair advantage to countries with more neighbours.

I also fail to see why anyone wouldn't vote for us because of the whole Iraq thing - as if Serbia, FYR Macedonia, Bosnia Herzogovina etc care about that - they have their own problems to deal with!

 

The same areas have similar tastes (hence UK artists are successful in France, Spain, The Netherlands, Ireland etc, but not in Baltic regions) and the songs we send are utter fluff - that's the reason we do so badly.

I also fail to see why anyone wouldn't vote for us because of the whole Iraq thing

 

I agree.

 

My particular favourite was how people used that to explain why we got zip in 2003. Turkey were also involved with it - and they won the bloody thing (and eight other countries - including Spain and Poland - were also in Eurovision that year as well).

Im just after watching last years eurovision and ireland and the uk did not deserve bottom 2,fair enough they didnt deserve a win but i really enjoyed watching both performances